Barclaycard and Credit Expert suspending card and giving no explanation

savagej

lisyloo, just out of interest are you one of the people who tell others not to buy the Experian credit score as it is a waste of money? I cant recall reading your opinion on this, but it is Experian's professional opinion based on the data in your credit report and that data alone. If you agree with their other statistical analysis software then surely this score is as good as any in term of what its limits are.

It is my contention they are using other unspecified data sources in addition to credit files to come up with conclusion and then not fully informing customers of this when they are told to contact Experian. Someone would need to do a subject access request to get the information not obtain their statutory report as they are given the impression they should do.

lisyloo

just out of interest are you one of the people who tell others not to buy the Experian credit score as it is a waste of money?

Yes.
My reason for saying this is that Experian are not lenders and their score (as far as we know) does not reflect the secret lending criteria of any lender. Hence it has no real meaning because it does not reflect what any lender will decide.

f you agree with their other statistical analysis software

I didn't say I agreed with it.
What I am saying is that Barclaycard are entitled to pay for it, use it and base their lending decisions on it.

then surely this score is as good as any in term of what its limits are.

I'm not in a posistion to say whether this s/w is good or not.
Do you know how it works?
Does it have configuration for the lenders criteria?

It is my contention they are using other unspecified data sources in addition to credit files to come up with conclusion and then not fully informing customers of this when they are told to contact Experian.

All sounds perfectly above board and legal so far (note I'm not saying it's good).
Are they obliged to fully inform customers of their data sources when a customer requests a report?
I don't think they are, but if you do, then please advise.

Someone would need to do a subject access request to get the information not obtain their statutory report as they are given the impression they should do.

Why has it taken you 3 posts to give this information to the OP?
If this is the case then you should have recommended they apply for a SAR in the first place?
I didn't as I didn't know Experian held other data.

savagej

You really need to read their website, there is nothing to do with data they dont do right down to checking up on CV's, when applying for a job (so they know much more about some people if it went through that piece of software), or even having a pattern of your voice to use it for recognition over the telephone. All of this information is stored away and used in accordance with their entry under the DPA. Also any ID documents you use at the bank, they store the data on them and use that too.

They are ingenious when it comes to making a profit from other peoples private data, as long as you sign the release.

The limits of their credit score are that it merely gives opinion based on the data in your statutory report, of course you are correct it does not take the lenders criteria into account, it only offers a probability of your being accepted on one set of data (not all of the other data they provide/match at application).

That is the problem with probability, it is not certainty, but unfortunately the banks take credit reference agencies work as gospel, well before they will ever beleive you. You could come up with many an example of why they could predict incorrectly that someone is going to default on debts. They for example dont know what you have in capital, or savings, etc. etc. However, i am sure it wont be long before they want that data too.

Edit: in fact, if you use a saving account statement as ID at some banks that data will be stored too. However, it cant be predicted if you have not already spent it.

Experian_company_representative

Your credit report is actually a copy of ALL the personal data a lender can get from us in your name to help make decisions about new and existing credit. Other sources of data that lenders consider include credit report information about any financial associates, credit application form data and internal behavioural data.

Most lenders assess all of this data using scoring. Some calculate different scores to provide answers to different questions - such as can the customer afford more credit? - and the final decision is reached by considering several scores.

Regular monitoring of customers' credit reports is nothing new and is one way banks and other lenders can demonstrate responsible lending to the regulators.

We do build and provide scoring tools for lenders. These are usually built based on each lender's own experiences and specifications (an exception to this would be a lender new to the UK market) and are then monitored and re-calibrated going forwards to take account of changing customer behaviour and changes to the wider economy.

It's always frustrating when credit is refused or withdrawn but you have to remember that lenders have to manage their books and decide at a high level how much risk they want to take. Lots of risk equals lots of customers but also lots of bad debt. Then they set their scores and pass-marks accordingly. What Experian does is provide some of the data and analytics to help them measure the potential risk of each customer. The lenders then decide how to manage this.

James Jones

savagej

Hi James

Are you confirming that a bank may on the basis of information supplied by a pieces of Experian's account monitoring software decided to make a decision, at its discrection, after being advised by the monitoring software that the person in question in now high risk for defaulting on their account or that there is a high risk a fraud is being committed on an account, to close the account or lower limits. This piece of software making a decision on a mathematical basis using probability and statistics that such an event is highly likely based on credit bureau data only.

Edit: If so, how is a customer to know that this decision to close/reduce limits is not based on exactly what they are looking at in a statutory report per say, it is in fact a derivative of that information interpreted as the softwares algorithms decision, I hope that part makes sense.

Thanks

James

lisyloo

All of this information is stored away and used in accordance with thei entry under the DPA.

Everything you have described, sounds all perfectly legal and above board to me.

savagej

It is.

The problem is what I was trying to allude to in my second paragraph above.

Your account is suddenly closed or your limit is cut and you are told, "please check your Experian credit report". You look at it and cant see anything wrong, everything is in order.

However, a piece of account monitoring software using a secret algorithm has predicited you are high risk for something, hence the bank taken this action. You are not told this. So it is akin to credit scoring in that way, you never know the score, but in this case you dont even know the software is run by Experian itself and the reasons are also secret. At least with credit scoring these days you are given some kind of indication of what went wrong, low score, bad data etc.

Credit scoring has been deemed "fair" in law as I beleive by the European Union, to give everyone an equal chance, but no one knows Experian are doing this and know one knows how the software works and when it might happen to you. I am sure the last part is for sound reasons, but if it turns out you are the victim of a probability score and suddenly find yourself with no account / lower limit and cant see why on your credit report, would you not be rather bemused and what to know the answer?

Edit: thats why I think it needs to go to the ICO's office so they can look into the wording of the letters send out when banks decide on such software to close and account, the customer should be told the bank now considers them too high a risk and this came from a score obtained from Experian.

lisyloo

it is in fact a derivative of that information interpreted as the softwares algorithms decision

People are not entitled to know who (computer or human) made the decision and what the criteria were.
This is commercially sensitive and secret information.
If people did know then loads of people on MSE would set about manipulating their credit reports. They already try this but it's all based around guesswork.

How would it help to know, execpt to try to manipulate your behaviour and hence your history until you tick the right boxes?

That's not how it's meant to work.
How it's mean to work is that the lender gets to see your behaviour without you deliberately manipulating it to best effect.

P.S I don't work for a bank or CRA, jsut don't see why you think they will give away their secrets so that they can be manipulated.

lisyloo

but if it turns out you are the victim of a probability score

You mean you've been shown to be likely to be a bad prospect according to the lenders criteria?

and suddenly find yourself with no account / lower limit and cant see why on your credit report, would you not be rather bemused and what to know the answer?

No, because I don't have the expectation that credit is a right.

Experian_company_representative

As well as giving you rights about your personal data, The Data Protection Act also gives you the right to prevent automated decisions in certain circumstances. More details here: http://www.ico.gov.uk/for_the_public/personal_information/how_manage/automated.aspx.

James Jones