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Using deposit for betterment?

So we recently moved out of a property to a new one, and our old letting agents have gotten back to us with their decision on our deposit. One charge we agree with (£2 for a dead lightbulb, fair enough, we must have missed it on our checks). However, another deduction is for £80, because one of the beds was not hoovered under. This alone sounds a little mad, however, I don't think they're entitled to make a claim at all.

I'm pretty sure I'm clear on the law here, and I'm going to see them tomorrow, but if I'm wrong it would be nice if someone could let me know so I don't look like a tool! A clause in our TA stated that we had to have the property professionally cleaned before we moved out. However, the house was not professionally cleaned before we moved in, there was loads of rubbish from the last tenants under all of the beds, stains on walls etc. (we have photos and a video), so I'm guessing this clause is unfair in this case. Also, the LA never did an inventory.

With these considerations (the house not being cleaned before we moved in, no inventory), would I be right in thinking that we shouldn't have this £80 deducted? Surely if it was deducted, it would count as betterment, which isn't a permitted use of the deposit? Just want to clarify so I'm a bit more confident when I go and talk to them tomorrow!

Thanks a lot,

Matt
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Comments

  • olly300
    olly300 Posts: 14,736
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    As there is not inventory and no receipts showing the house was "professionally"* cleaned then they can't simply deduct money for vacuum cleaning under the bed. You also should have argued with them about the light bulb as again there is no proof that it wasn't working when you moved in.

    *No such thing as a professional cleaner as cleaning is not a professional profession.
    I'm not cynical I'm realistic :p

    (If a link I give opens pop ups I won't know I don't use windows)
  • mchale
    mchale Posts: 1,886 Forumite
    I would ask the LA for a copy of their inventory and photos taken at beginning of tenancy (which you know don't exist) and when they can't provide them, tell the LA to go whistle for any money, put everything in writing to them so you have a paper trail in case of any legal proceedings, also was deposit protected?
    ANURADHA KOIRALA ??? go on throw it in google.
  • Yes the deposit was protected. If they give us any gip tomorrow, I'll just raise a dispute with the DPS.
  • G_M
    G_M Posts: 51,977
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    Whatever the tenancy agreement says (professional cleaning whatever), your obligation is clear: to leave the property in the same condition as it was in when you moved in, less wear and tear.

    So if there was dirt/dust at the start, you can leave similar dirt/dust.
    If it was immaculately clean, you must leave it immaculately clean (whether you achieve this by employing a cleaning firm or DIY is up to you).

    However, if landlord/agent wishes to make a deduction from your deposit on these grounds, he/they must be able to prove that you have NOT left it as you found it, and the only way they can do this is by showing, via an inventory which you agreed and signed at the start.

    A full inventory will describe the condition of the property at the start of the tenancy (these days often including photos). This can then be compared with how you leave the property.

    In the absence of such an inventory, the LL/agent will have difficulty proving anything is missing, or was damaged during the tenancy, or that it is dirtier at the end than at the beginning. (though a receipt from a cleaning company dated just before the tenancy started might suffice.)
  • paddedjohn
    paddedjohn Posts: 7,512
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    olly300 wrote: »
    as there is not inventory and no receipts showing the house was "professionally"* cleaned then they can't simply deduct money for vacuum cleaning under the bed. You also should have argued with them about the light bulb as again there is no proof that it wasn't working when you moved in.

    *no such thing as a professional cleaner as cleaning is not a professional profession.
    "the term professional is used more generally to denote a white collar worker or a person who performs commercially in a field typicaly reserved for amateurs"
    HENCE 'PROFESSIONAL CLEANERS'
    Be Alert..........Britain needs lerts.
  • tbs624
    tbs624 Posts: 10,816 Forumite
    edited 1 November 2010 at 10:30AM
    BattyMatty - there are three good posts above which give you the back up info you need.

    Just to re-iterate mchale's suggestion - keep your dealings with the LA *in writing*, with copies kept. If you initially talk to them in person/on the phone, always follow it up with a letter setting out what was discussed and your understanding of what has been agreed/the next step.

    Either party can decide to use the small claims court rather than the scheme's arbitration but whichever route you go down the decision will be binding on both parties.

    Although your LA was daft enough to not have an inventory, bear in mind for future tenancies that it is not "mad" for a LL to charge a T for failing to hoover under a bed ( although that 80 quid try-on was clearly excessive)

    Even if a LL has had a property "professionally" cleaned s/he can only ask a T to clean it to a "professional standard"

    Once you have sorted the return of your deposit , you may want to put up a review at www.allagents.co.uk. Also consider raising a formal complaint if the LA is voluntarily signed up to ARLA, NALs, NAEA, each of whom have a code of practice to which members should adhere.
  • tbs624 - Thanks for summarizing :)

    Sorry if I implied it was mad to charge for hoovering under a bed! What I meant was it's mad to try and charge 80 quid for hoovering under one bed. If it had been a lower amount, we probably wouldn't have disputed it in the first place. Although if you look at some of our photos from when we moved in, you might see why I find it a little ridiculous...

    http://www.tingewick.org/images/5PP1.JPG
    http://www.tingewick.org/images/5PP2.JPG

    I'll stick a review up once it's all sorted - they haven't been reviewed yet, at least not on that site (it's a different matter on google - some awful reviews there...) They haven't signed up to any of the organizations, so no complaint avenue there.

    Thanks for all of the suggestions!
  • Leory
    Leory Posts: 386 Forumite
    tbs624 wrote: »


    I think it is http://www.allagents.co.uk/

    well you have proff of the condition of the room even if they dont. So as said, write, keep copies and push for arbitration.
  • tbs624
    tbs624 Posts: 10,816 Forumite
    BattyMatty wrote: »
    Sorry if I implied it was mad to charge for hoovering under a bed! What I meant was it's mad to try and charge 80 quid for hoovering under one bed.
    Joy of forums - what any of us post up is often subject to a different interpretation by others :)
    BattyMatty wrote: »
    If it had been a lower amount, we probably wouldn't have disputed it in the first place. Although if you look at some of our photos from when we moved in, you might see why I find it a little ridiculous...

    http://www.tingewick.org/images/5PP1.JPG
    http://www.tingewick.org/images/5PP2.JPG
    Nice.....(not) Maybe you should have bagged that lot up, stored and re-sprinkled.

    Previous Ts will probably have lost an amount from *their* deposit for that mess and then your LL failed to get it cleaned up prior to you moving in.
  • Sorted!

    Visited them with our photos, lack of inventory and our basic understanding of tenancy law.

    The deduction is now just the lightbulb one (£2.50), which we agreed was fair enough originally. Fantastic! Thanks again for the help MSE forums, and an extra thank you to all who replied with advice :)

    Matt
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