Land lady wants to paint the house - while we live in it!

G_M

Savvy_Spender_South wrote: »

G_M, you make a logical point but without first reviewing the contract, it would be hard to say for sure thet the LL cannot do this. I know i have the right (within reason as my previous post) to maintain MY HOUSES therefore if the kitchen is falling apart, i fix it, not a tenant. Equally if the walls are shoddy, i paint.

If a tenant wants to paint, they can and do, but we discuss and agree first. If i need to lay a new carpet, and its cheaper to do the full property, i do, if i can do them all at once and multi save, i do.

Take away the OP concern over ulterior motives, fact is the LL wants to paint, so with a reasonable discussion, there is no reason for this to become a problem.

The tenant's right to 'quiet enjoyment' over-rides anything written in the contract. There are many clauses in contracts which are unenforcable. I saw one yesterday that said "The landlord will hold the deposit .... and the tenant will not be entitled to any interest". Clear breach of the law requiring deposits to be protected in recognised schemes.

This is a case in point. If the tenant refuses you access (whether to repaint, fix the kitchen, or even do the annual gas safety check) you need to get a court order before you can go in. This has been discussed at length on this forum as well as on Landlordzone.co

Whether it is in the tenant's best interests to allow the re-painting is a different question. In the end, only the OP can decide. But the law/tenant's rights are clear.

butler_helen

G_M - thank you!

I've taken a gander at the shelter site and I can see that it's down to me. There definitely is nothing in the contract to say she can come in unless it's an emergency. Therefore, I am being nice enough to let her 'visit' later in the month (I have to waste my sunday waiting for her).

I dont want someone to move my stuff, all wardrobes are full and they would have to empty them to move them, move the stuff back, then paint, then move it out again, move the wardrobes back and re-fill - that in itself is a lengthy process and could mean our stuff gets damaged.

We don't really want to move out, not really, but if she put the rent up then we could do better than it, for a little bit more than we currently pay, or the price she wants to charge (but a longer commute to the station).

neverdespairgirl

Savvy_Spender_South wrote: »

It is very reasonable to negotiate a date for painter entry suitable to both parties, but difficult to reject full stop.

Easy to reject, full stop!

neverdespairgirl

Savvy_Spender_South wrote: »

I know i have the right (within reason as my previous post) to maintain MY HOUSES therefore if the kitchen is falling apart, i fix it, not a tenant. Equally if the walls are shoddy, i paint.

If the tenant flat-out refuses, you'd need a court order.

seraphina

Also the rules about how much a council will pay for housing benefit are about to change - it's highly unlikely that a council tenant on Housing Benefit will pay more than a private tenant in the near future....

Cissi

Savvy_Spender_South wrote: »

G_M, you make a logical point but without first reviewing the contract, it would be hard to say for sure thet the LL cannot do this. I know i have the right (within reason as my previous post) to maintain MY HOUSES therefore if the kitchen is falling apart, i fix it, not a tenant. Equally if the walls are shoddy, i paint.

If a tenant wants to paint, they can and do, but we discuss and agree first. If i need to lay a new carpet, and its cheaper to do the full property, i do, if i can do them all at once and multi save, i do.

Take away the OP concern over ulterior motives, fact is the LL wants to paint, so with a reasonable discussion, there is no reason for this to become a problem.

You can put what you like in the contract, but as G_M said, you can't overwrite the law. The tenant has a right to "quiet enjoyment", period. If they agree to let you in to paint/recarpet/whatever then fine, but they're perfectly entitled to refuse.

OP, in your position I'd refuse - you seem reasonably happy with the state of the place and it's clear that the hassle of the work outweighs any benefits to you. If you're prepared to leave in any case when she puts the rent up as she's said she will, then there is nothing to gain by pandering to her wishes to keep her goodwill. Tell her where to shove it (in polite terms - and yes, whatever you do do it in writing, not by email or text).

mchale

Cissi wrote: »

You can put what you like in the contract, but as G_M said, you can't overwrite the law. The tenant has a right to "quiet enjoyment", period. If they agree to let you in to paint/recarpet/whatever then fine, but they're perfectly entitled to refuse.

OP, in your position I'd refuse - you seem reasonably happy with the state of the place and it's clear that the hassle of the work outweighs any benefits to you. If you're prepared to leave in any case when she puts the rent up as she's said she will, then there is nothing to gain by pandering to her wishes to keep her goodwill. Tell her where to shove it (in polite terms - and yes, whatever you do do it in writing, not by email or text).

Care to comment on the part that reads Landlords obligations


http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/Privaterenting/Tenancies/DG_189101

Seems even the government can't make their mind up about the well used phase "quiet enjoyment"

olly300

mchale wrote: »

Care to comment on the part that reads Landlords obligations


http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/Privaterenting/Tenancies/DG_189101

Seems even the government can't make their mind up about the well used phase "quiet enjoyment"

The "government" can't make their minds up because cases like this are left to the judiciary.

Also there is little point linking to Direct.gov.uk as the government also provides funding to Shelter and the CAB who specialise in housing problems, and will contradict what Direct.gov.uk says.

seven-day-weekend

What is the situation if you have long-term tenants who will NEVER agree to any access? Some friends of mine were never able to negotiate with the tenants for things like necessary maintenance, it was never 'convenient'. When they were eventually able to gain access because of an emergency, there were things that needed maintenance which had got worse because the tenants would not allow the access.

They have now moved away and the house has been sold, but it needed much more doing to it than if the tenant had allowed access to get things done.

What are the laws on this? Could they have insisted on access to do necessary maintenance?

(Edited to add, I've just read the posts above, and it seems they would have needed a Court Order. So their house can fall down and there is nothing they can do to stop it if the tenant refuses access. Although I supppose one option is to give the tenants notice and do the work after they have gone. I'm surprised anybody ever rents their house out).

tbs624

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

..
What are the laws on this? Could they have insisted on access to do necessary maintenance?

(Edited to add, I've just read the posts above, and it seems they would have needed a Court Order. So their house can fall down and there is nothing they can do to stop it if the tenant refuses access. Although I supppose one option is to give the tenants notice and do the work after they have gone. I'm surprised anybody ever rents their house out).

The vast majority of tenants don't have an issue over access per se. The problems seem to arise when LLs and LAs approach the matter the wrong way.

There are two implied covenants which apply to ASTs - one is the LLs right of access so that he can see to his s11 repairing obligations and the other is the Ts right to quiet enjoyment. It should be all about finding the right balance between the two.

There'd probably be far less aggro all round if LLs said to their Ts

" I need to come into your home to check/do x , please can we fix a mutually agreeable day/time" rather than
" I am coming round at 10.45 on Thursday and if you're not there I'll let myself in by key", which is what seems to be a regular occurrence.

In your friends' case they could, as NDG says, have sought a court order to enforce access. They were also at liberty to pursue the T for costs arising from damage to the property if those were incurred because s/he failed to report repairs issues to the LL