What does "underlying entitlement to JSA(IB)" mean ?

tcr_3

This term "underlying entitlement to JSA(IB)" (in relation to SMI) is increasingly bandied about but no-one can explain what it means, or it means different things to different people. So I'm trying to figure out what it means to you. And I'm doing that because it impacts on the work I do and I want to understand where you're all coming from.

Here's an example of what I mean and why I'm getting befuzzled.

e.g. week one Joe Bloggs claims JSA(C) and JSA(IB)

He's awarded JSA(C) ... but turned down for JSA(IB) because his Granny gives him £50 p.w.

So he gets his £64.30 pw JSA(C) ... and he's got her money too. He's got no entitlement to JSA(IB) of any kind whatever. But if you factor in his £150pw SMI at week 13 he'll qualify for JSA(IB) simply because of the mortgage ... the SMI is JSA(IB).

So does he have "underlying entitlement to JSA(IB)" ... because he'll eventually get some SMI paid ? Is that what you guys mean when you use this term ?

Or do you mean where the JSA(C) and JSA(IB) are the same, for a single person, at £64.30pw and where JSA(C) takes priority at week 1 ? But there's no JSA(IB) paid until week 13 ?

I'm not trying to be vexatious ... I genuinely don't understand what you mean by this term or how you even define it.

happymumto2

tcr wrote: »

This term "underlying entitlement to JSA(IB)" (in relation to SMI) is increasingly bandied about but no-one can explain what it means, or it means different things to different people. So I'm trying to figure out what it means to you. And I'm doing that because it impacts on the work I do and I want to understand where you're all coming from.

Here's an example of what I mean and why I'm getting befuzzled.

e.g. week one Joe Bloggs claims JSA(C) and JSA(IB)

He's awarded JSA(C) ... but turned down for JSA(IB) because his Granny gives him £50 p.w.

So he gets his £64.30 pw JSA(C) ... and he's got her money too. He's got no entitlement to JSA(IB) of any kind whatever. But if you factor in his £150pw SMI at week 13 he'll qualify for JSA(IB) simply because of the mortgage ... the SMI is JSA(IB).

So does he have "underlying entitlement to JSA(IB)" ... because he'll eventually get some SMI paid ? Is that what you guys mean when you use this term ?

Or do you mean where the JSA(C) and JSA(IB) are the same, for a single person, at £64.30pw and where JSA(C) takes priority at week 1 ? But there's no JSA(IB) paid until week 13 ?

I'm not trying to be vexatious ... I genuinely don't understand what you mean by this term or how you even define it.

My ESA (I) did not kick in until week 20, I got no SMI until I went onto ESA (I), however my award notice at week 13 stated I was entitled to SMI, but it was not in payment as I was on ESA (C) at that point.
You don't automatically get SMI at week 13, you have to be in receipt of a qualifying benefit before it is paid.

dookar

tcr wrote: »

He's got no entitlement to JSA(IB) of any kind whatever.

Well, he does. Income has no affect on a person's entitlement to JSA(IB) only to the amount payable, having EIOR does not mean you are not entitled, just that none is payable. You therefore have an underlying entitlement.

imo, of course

tcr_3

dookar wrote: »

Well, he does. Income has no affect on a person's entitlement to JSA(IB) only to the amount payable, having EIOR does not mean you are not entitled, just that none is payable. You therefore have an underlying entitlement.

imo, of course

Mm. Bit dubious about that one , dookar ! Everyone who's EIOR would qualify for free prescriptions if we followed that to its logical conclusion ... and that can't be right, surely ?

dookar

tcr wrote: »

Mm. Bit dubious about that one , dookar ! Everyone who's EIOR would qualify for free prescriptions if we followed that to its logical conclusion ... and that can't be right, surely ?

No, free prescriptions are dependant on being in receipt of a means tested benefit

ALIBOBSY

If his only income is £50 he is entitled to £14.30 JSA (IB). The DWP computer system will show both entitlements and then pays the highest of the 2.

ali x

tcr_3

ALIBOBSY wrote: »

If his only income is £50 he is entitled to £14.30 JSA (IB). The DWP computer system will show both entitlements and then pays the highest of the 2.

ali x

So he doesn't receive JSA(IB) then. But he's got this "underlying entitlement" ?

Where is this codified in the regulations ?

Can anyone hook me up to the regs where this underlying entitlement is defined so I can read it and get it into my head ?

dookar

tcr wrote: »

So he doesn't receive JSA(IB) then. But he's got this "underlying entitlement" ?

Where is this codified in the regulations ?

Can anyone hook me up to the regs where this underlying entitlement is defined so I can read it and get it into my head ?

No. It's a 'turn of phrase', you can read the regs and determine what we're saying but they don't say 'underlying entitlement'

dookar

dookar wrote: »

No. It's a 'turn of phrase', you can read the regs and determine what we're saying but they don't say 'underlying entitlement'

actually, no. I retract everything I said

NASA_2

Underlying Entitlement with regard to benefits means to me a benefit that would, but for another benefit or component of a benefit, be payable but isnt due to that other benefit.

The best example I can think of is when ESA(C+IR) and Carers Allowance are both claimed with the ESA(C) part being payable. It overlaps with the Carers Allowance and because ESA(C) is (Normally) the higher paying benefit the Carers will stop being paid. Carers Allowance is 'paid' at a rate of £0.00 meaning an underlying entitlement remains and because of this the Carers Premium can be awarded with the Income Related part of ESA.

Straightforward enough.

tcr_3

So straightforward that no-one so far can hook me up to the regs where this "underlying entitlement" is written up.