Car clamped and I have a permit!

fifimation

So here’s my story:

I have a valid registered permit to park in our car park outside my rented property. On the day in question I was extremely ill and had to return from work. I parked my car in its usually parking space and left the car in a hurry to get inside.

Until that morning I have always displayed my permit appropriately and as I work part time from home my car is frequently parked in this particular space.
There are four spaces in the car park that are allocated for our flats of which there are 6 flats. As only three of us have cars it works out quiet nicely. I was parked in one of our four spaces allocated to us.
The car park is watched by a private car park company (and warning signs are displayed) to make sure that others do not use it as it can be very difficult to park in our area. The car park does not have any gates or ticket machines and it appears to resemble more of a front drive way to the flats than a car park. In theory any one can access it

On this day however I had placed my permit in a hurry due to the reason stated above and unfortunately it fell/slipped off the window and would appear to have been not visible to the warden. My boyfriend returned home later that day and broke the news that my car had been clamped.

When I phoned the company they advised that I would still have to pay the fine and then appeal.

I just feel so angry!

I paid the fine and I’m now in the process of writing to appeal. But to be honest I feel like they have my £120 pounds and are not going to get it back.

I know its my responsibility to display my permit but £120 is outrageous!!

The car was clamed for a 4-5 hours tops. Its my first mistake since moving into the property a month ago and could happen to any one. On top of that I was ill and the spaces are there for our flats anyway!!

Is just SO annoying!!

Any advise on what I can include in the letter or do would be very helpful.

I’m planning on stating my case as:

• Mitigating circumstances-ill & permit slipped!
• I cannot afford to pay the fine- only work part time really can’t!!

But not sure if I can or should use:
• The fine is disproportionate

ONE VERY ANGRY SAVER!

anewman

An appeal will be of no help, the clamping companies only interests is to part you with your money - they're profitable businesses afterall. Chances are you will have to take both the clamping company and the land owner to small claims court to recover your money.

How did you pay the release extortion fee? If you paid by credit card, call your card company immediately and ask for a charge back on the transaction. You may have to be persistent and ask to speak to a manager etc if you get fobbed off.

Sadly this kind of demanding money with menaces is all too common if you read through the other posts. What seems to happen is people are annoyed at people parking where they shouldn't, they think "I know, we'll teach em" then get a clamping company in. Clamping company clamps the errant parkers then they clear off leaving the residents to be prayed on. One slip of the permit to the footwell and your £120 out of pocket, and none of the other residents care as people no longer park in their space and it hasn't happened to them.

fifimation

Thank you! - that pretty much what i thought!

I paid by cash unfortunatly!!

I guess i am bit wary of taking things further as ive never done it before. To take some one to small claims court, does its cost you??

I guess i will still go ahead with the letter any way, as ive pretty much type it any way!

Would any one know how i find out who the land owner is as well- i guess i could ask my agents who rent the flat but they are pretty rubbish when it comes to doing stuff for us.

Thanks again!

anewman

I the believe land owner can be determined from Land Registry for a small fee. Bringing a small claims case does cost (less than the £120), but these costs will be paid by the other side if the case goes in your favour.

And I would say being in contact with the clamping company giving them and the land owner an opportunity to pay up before you take court action would reflect well on you in court, so even though they won't give you the money back it's worth the 36p to send.

Pimpslider

anewman wrote: »

I the believe land owner can be determined from Land Registry for a small fee.

Yeah, I had to do something similar finding out boundries of a house as a neighbour claimed he had a parking space out the back of his house, but it was just a bit of concrete! So I paid about £2.50 and got a print of the boundry of the house in question, kept parking there and told him to jog on. I'm sure it would be similar to find the land owner.

If PPCs can get details willy-nilly then I am sure we can too!!

fifimation

Thanks!

I have managed to find out the owners of the car park are my neighbours!

I came across an old letter addressed to the previous tenants, explaining the aggrement between capital carpark control and the client. ( I would assume the client/s must be the land owners). The client would appear to be one of neighbours, and its state she signed the contract on behalf of the other resident owners of the block of flats. It would appear that we were then all issued with one permit each per flat and a copy of the contract. Like i said this is not actually address to me or my partner its to the previous tenants, who left it in the flat with the permit.

Should I therefore do a copy of the appeal letter and post it to my neighbour, the one who is named on the client and company letter??? or maybe to all of my neighbours!?? - if they are the landowners!?

If i did take this further would that mean i would be also be claiming against my nieghbours?! I dont want to start annoying them!! Most of them are very nice!

HO87

You can obtain details of the landowner from the title register held by the Land Registry following this link. It'll cost you £4.

[Edit] That'll teach me to refresh the page!

Coblcris

fifimation wrote: »

Thanks!

I have managed to find out the owners of the car park are my neighbours!

I came across an old letter addressed to the previous tenants, explaining the aggrement between capital carpark control and the client. ( I would assume the client/s must be the land owners). The client would appear to be one of neighbours, and its state she signed the contract on behalf of the other resident owners of the block of flats. It would appear that we were then all issued with one permit each per flat and a copy of the contract. Like i said this is not actually address to me or my partner its to the previous tenants, who left it in the flat with the permit.

Should I therefore do a copy of the appeal letter and post it to my neighbour, the one who is named on the client and company letter??? or maybe to all of my neighbours!?? - if they are the landowners!?

If i did take this further would that mean i would be also be claiming against my nieghbours?! I dont want to start annoying them!! Most of them are very nice!

Claim against the neighbour (as well). Their statement of signing would seem to be false. Plus there is no privity, you cannot be bound by that letter.
How can they have control of all the parking ?
I would wager that your beighbour gets some money from the clampers.

Conflict with a neighbour can be troublesome.

Coupon-mad

You mentioned 'agents' that you rent the flat from? Do you mean Managing Agent - maybe they are the client?

Basically you will need to name everyone responsible for this rip-off on a Small Claim. Hopefully then one of them will put pressure on the clampers to pay up without Court.

The Small Claim, naming all parties, would only cost you one amount of £30 up front but of course you then include this and all your other costs in your small claim amount. As long as you put your claim properly and the judge has a brain cell or two, then you'll get your money back and won't be out of pocket.

Why are you so keen to believe that your permit was not visible?

Why honour the thug who clamped you, with the title 'Warden'?

You need to understand that being clamped in your own space is IMHO a scam and the fee you paid extortionate under the circumstances. If you don't believe that and you really feel you did something wrong that warrants paying some company that amount of money - or don't want to include your neighbours or landowner in the claim - then there's no point even thinking about taking them to court.

On the other hand, if you are serious and want your money back (I would!) then get angry about it and start collecting evidence of why the clamping was unfair. A few things I would consider to start with:

1. What do the clamping signs say? Do they state the amount and do they state that you can be clamped for placing your permit further back on the windscreen than usual (after all you say you DID display it and you have the permit to show the judge).

2. How many clamping signs are there, where are they? Are the signs lit at night, are they clear and placed in several obvious places? Is all the wording in large letters?

3. Did you ever sign anything or accept any t&cs as a resident, to acknowledge that you could be clamped in one of the spaces that comes with the flats? Were you given any choice?

4. Does the paperwork you were given state that the amount was a penalty or fine? Do the clamping signs refer to 'penalty' or 'fine' (if so these words are not correct and you can use them at the Small Claims hearing to show the amount was unfair/illegal/extortionate).

5. Does the paperwork or signs refer to this being trespass? If so this would act in your favour as you were not trespassing and even if you had been, the landowner can only claim any consequential loss).

I would scan in the paperwork you were given, and take pictures of any signage, and start a new thread for advice on pepipoo.com if you want to get your money back:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

You will be advised by them as to whether the paperwork and/or signs are unfair/illegal, which you can use in your claim. You will also be advised to draft a firm Notice Before Action letter to send to all parties to give them a chance to cough up the refund without Court (forget the appeal, that won't be accepted, you'll see).

You definitely need to include whichever party instructed the clampers, if that's your neighbour then sobeit - they shouldn't make contracts with such lowlifes if they don't want to be dragged down to their level.

fifimation

Thanks again for all the advise!! pls keep it coming!

I am serouis about getting my money back and will carry on fighting to get it back!

The agent i mention before was my proberty agent , I dont think they have much to do with the ownership as they just act on behalf of my landord who lives abroad.

I have checked the tenancy agreement and it does not say much about the car park. :

10.12. Not to keep or store any boat caravan or commercial vehicle at the Premises or in any communal car park without the written consent of the Landlord. Consent will not be unreasonably withheld.
10.13. To ensure that any vehicle kept at the Premises or in a communal car park is roadworthy, suitably insured and carries a current tax disc and to provide copies of such documentation if so requested by the Landlord or the Agent.
10.14. To park only in any driveway or parking space allotted to the Tenant if applicable and removes any vehicle at the end of the Tenancy. If any vehicle is left at the Premises it will be removed at the Tenant's expense.
10.15. Not to repair any vehicle or motor cycle at the Premises or in any communal car park apart from routine maintenance and to clean or pay for the cleaning of any oil spillage to any driveway or parking space.

It would appear from what i can understand that i am not bound by any obligation or contract here either!

I have already started a thread in pepipoo as suggested. - THANKS!

For those that wish to follow or have a look, as there is a lot more detail:

it is on their website under :

parking and decriminalised notices-

"car clamped-permit was in car but not visable. PLS HELP!"

Sorry, Can't seem to place a link in my msg.

URL: forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=49010

Once again thanks for the advise!!

Coblcris

"To park only in any driveway or parking space allotted to the Tenant"

You win. I would proceed to court against all parties jointly and severally. I would include consequential losses due to non-use of my vehicle.