We'd like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum. This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are - or become - political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
Ex-Employer keeps making payments on purpose (one surprising story, or maybe not)
The_Zealot
Posts: 67 Forumite
So my wife gets an interview for my company to work at another site in London and nails the job. It was a 3 month contract automatically renewed for £21,000/year.
Come the last days of the third month, two days before my wife goes on (agreed) holidays she's told that they won't be counting on her in the future, for no special reason at all, it's just that she's a contractor.
Of course I got really worried, because my salary of around £22.5k was not enough to pay all our bills in London, and yet we aren't entitled to any benefit because I make "too much money".
So nearly a month later my wife calls HR and asks for her P45, because it still hasn't been delivered. They say it will be sent soon. A few days later she got her salary like before. Truth be said, she never got her written notice of cessation of contract.
I told her to go to the Citizen's Bureau for advice and the guy told her to keep the money, it was their mistake, so no further contact was made to the employer. Eventually she got a P45 from the Job Centre, and we thought that would be the end of the story regarding payments.
However the payments kept coming, and, as you guys noticed, finding a new job in the 1H 2009 has been a pain for hundreds of thousands of people. And of course that meant we needed to use a chunk of her income.
In recent time someone said that we were going to make the repayments in the future, that it's how the law is.
On my side things weren't going peachy, in July we all got a 0% salary increase "because of the crisis", so as soon as my wife got a new job, I resigned and went on holidays. I let the 19 holidays I still had left to be used as the notice period, and left. I also knew that her ex-boss was also on holidays during that period.
One week after we all come back, the phone rings, no one picks it up, but my wife's ex-boss was asking my wife for her CV, there could be a new job offer for her in case she's interested. She also sent an email. The ex-boss even called me, something she never did before.
So my wife sends the CV in good faith, and today, lo and behold, HR rings her and leaves a voicemail saying there's a problem with overpayment and that my wife needs to ring back to make the arrangements for the return of the money.
Clearly this was all but a scam to get my wife declaring the months she was working with the company, just in case she ever wanted to lie and say that she had been at work all this time in an Employment Tribunal. My wife would never do such thing, but I understand some people out there would.
It's also clear that these overpayments were being made on purpose to either keep me quiet about my rubbish salary, about two thirds of market rate, and to keep me tied to the job, because in truth I was still getting enough money for the groceries. Or both.
Of course, we are now in debt of several thousand pounds. We still have some, we didn't splash it out, we always knew it was too good to be true so we tried to minimise spending, which we did. But my salary was not enough by quite a bit, it's just not a realistic salary for someone to support two people, I needed my wife's salary to balance the bills and she couldn't find a new job sooner (and the girl did try hard).
So, now I'm without a job and we now have to pay back an amount that we do not have and will not have for quite a long time, and all because I resigned and this unrequested loan is not longer fit for purpose.
My wife stopped asking for job seekers allowance as soon as she got her first "extra" payment, and was soon enough so that she never got any benefits paid in. We're pretty sure it would be fraud to be getting a monthly salary and still claim job seekers allowance, especially without written termination of a contract, which specified that the contract would only end after written notice of at least one week in advance. This never happened to this day.
I think these are all the details. What should we do and who could help us mounting a legal defence?
We can't prove it was all one big scheme for me to yield to the company because the only source of income, but you can't convince me otherwise given the timing. They only brought it up after me resigning, it was all thought up. Options?
Come the last days of the third month, two days before my wife goes on (agreed) holidays she's told that they won't be counting on her in the future, for no special reason at all, it's just that she's a contractor.
Of course I got really worried, because my salary of around £22.5k was not enough to pay all our bills in London, and yet we aren't entitled to any benefit because I make "too much money".
So nearly a month later my wife calls HR and asks for her P45, because it still hasn't been delivered. They say it will be sent soon. A few days later she got her salary like before. Truth be said, she never got her written notice of cessation of contract.
I told her to go to the Citizen's Bureau for advice and the guy told her to keep the money, it was their mistake, so no further contact was made to the employer. Eventually she got a P45 from the Job Centre, and we thought that would be the end of the story regarding payments.
However the payments kept coming, and, as you guys noticed, finding a new job in the 1H 2009 has been a pain for hundreds of thousands of people. And of course that meant we needed to use a chunk of her income.
In recent time someone said that we were going to make the repayments in the future, that it's how the law is.
On my side things weren't going peachy, in July we all got a 0% salary increase "because of the crisis", so as soon as my wife got a new job, I resigned and went on holidays. I let the 19 holidays I still had left to be used as the notice period, and left. I also knew that her ex-boss was also on holidays during that period.
One week after we all come back, the phone rings, no one picks it up, but my wife's ex-boss was asking my wife for her CV, there could be a new job offer for her in case she's interested. She also sent an email. The ex-boss even called me, something she never did before.
So my wife sends the CV in good faith, and today, lo and behold, HR rings her and leaves a voicemail saying there's a problem with overpayment and that my wife needs to ring back to make the arrangements for the return of the money.
Clearly this was all but a scam to get my wife declaring the months she was working with the company, just in case she ever wanted to lie and say that she had been at work all this time in an Employment Tribunal. My wife would never do such thing, but I understand some people out there would.
It's also clear that these overpayments were being made on purpose to either keep me quiet about my rubbish salary, about two thirds of market rate, and to keep me tied to the job, because in truth I was still getting enough money for the groceries. Or both.
Of course, we are now in debt of several thousand pounds. We still have some, we didn't splash it out, we always knew it was too good to be true so we tried to minimise spending, which we did. But my salary was not enough by quite a bit, it's just not a realistic salary for someone to support two people, I needed my wife's salary to balance the bills and she couldn't find a new job sooner (and the girl did try hard).
So, now I'm without a job and we now have to pay back an amount that we do not have and will not have for quite a long time, and all because I resigned and this unrequested loan is not longer fit for purpose.
My wife stopped asking for job seekers allowance as soon as she got her first "extra" payment, and was soon enough so that she never got any benefits paid in. We're pretty sure it would be fraud to be getting a monthly salary and still claim job seekers allowance, especially without written termination of a contract, which specified that the contract would only end after written notice of at least one week in advance. This never happened to this day.
I think these are all the details. What should we do and who could help us mounting a legal defence?
We can't prove it was all one big scheme for me to yield to the company because the only source of income, but you can't convince me otherwise given the timing. They only brought it up after me resigning, it was all thought up. Options?
0
Comments
-
I'm sorry to not have more positive advice, but I don't see that you have a leg to stand on - you knew all along that the overpayments to your wife were an error but you continued to accept and spend them? I'd be very surprised if the CAB told you to just keep quiet and keep the money though - I'd definitely be raising this as a complaint with them as (if they did say it) it's completely wrong advice!
I also don't understand how you can connect your resignation with your wife's overpayments?! I think you'd be better off not trying to drag your own position into the debate as it really isn't relevant.
I think you just need to agree a reasonable repayment plan with your former employer - can you show them a summary of your income and expenditure and agree an amount that you can afford to pay back each month? They could take you to court to recover the money but the court will only force you to pay what you can afford anyway, so hopefully they won't go down this route if you keep things amicable.
I don't mean to be critical but the way your post is written sounds like you thought you had got away with a load of money you knew wasn't yours, and you're only complaining now that you've been found out!
Edited to say - them contacting your wife re a potential new job offer is quite likely to be entirely innocent - HR receiving her CV may well be what flagged up the fact that she was still on payroll even though she didn't work there anymore. They wouldn't have needed a copy of her CV to prove she had left the company months earlier, so I would forget about this part if I were you0 -
Taking the money without doing the job was theft ,pure and simple .
Should have let them know straight away ,how could anyone be daft enough to think they would get away with it ?0 -
Ridiculous.
Pay them back:money:0 -
I don't think its as harsh as saying "theft", but you certainly need to payback the overpayment. You knew you were being overpaid.
The advice you got from the CAB is load of crap! They really said that "as its not your fault"?
You know you have to pay it back.
Bozo0 -
Am I right that you say it was worrying having to rely on just your salary and it wasn't enough to pay the bills, yet you then quit your job because they don't give you a wage increase... sounds ridiculous.Bought, not Brought0
-
Am I right that you say it was worrying having to rely on just your salary and it wasn't enough to pay the bills, yet you then quit your job because they don't give you a wage increase... sounds ridiculous.
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:make the most of it, we are only here for the weekend.
and we will never, ever return.0 -
Am I right that you say it was worrying having to rely on just your salary and it wasn't enough to pay the bills, yet you then quit your job because they don't give you a wage increase... sounds ridiculous.
Well sir, why don't you go and do it yourself? I'm sure you'll enjoy the special position of being the only guy looking after the whole of the UK and Ireland for the love of it. Here, have my pat on your back as well, it's the only thing you'll be getting from them.Taking the money without doing the job was theft ,pure and simple .
Should have let them know straight away ,how could anyone be daft enough to think they would get away with it ?
And how about you check a dictionary for the meaning of theft instead? That's a pretty ignorant comment, you should feel ashamed of yourself.
And we didn't think we could get away with it. But in case you didn't read it properly, this case is a bit more complex than to give back all the money in one go.not_tonight_josephine wrote: »I'm sorry to not have more positive advice, but I don't see that you have a leg to stand on - you knew all along that the overpayments to your wife were an error but you continued to accept and spend them? I'd be very surprised if the CAB told you to just keep quiet and keep the money though - I'd definitely be raising this as a complaint with them as (if they did say it) it's completely wrong advice!
What would be the benefit of that now?
not_tonight_josephine wrote: »I also don't understand how you can connect your resignation with your wife's overpayments?! I think you'd be better off not trying to drag your own position into the debate as it really isn't relevant.
Edited to say - them contacting your wife re a potential new job offer is quite likely to be entirely innocent - HR receiving her CV may well be what flagged up the fact that she was still on payroll even though she didn't work there anymore. They wouldn't have needed a copy of her CV to prove she had left the company months earlier, so I would forget about this part if I were you
I think you're being incredibly naive on this one.
not_tonight_josephine wrote: »I think you just need to agree a reasonable repayment plan with your former employer - can you show them a summary of your income and expenditure and agree an amount that you can afford to pay back each month? They could take you to court to recover the money but the court will only force you to pay what you can afford anyway, so hopefully they won't go down this route if you keep things amicable.
Thank you very much for this piece of advice. It is in line with what I got already from someone else.
I need to know something. When the Job Centre posted the P45 to my wife, wouldn't the former employer be notified of this? Wouldn't they know this person had left at least since then?0 -
Your comment about the job centre and the P45 was confusing.
Did she get a P45 from her employer. She should have don.
The P45 from the job centre would only cover her from the time and for the time she was signed on for and would not have included the time when she was working at her job.
I really dont think you/she has a leg to stand on so i would just sort out a payment plan.make the most of it, we are only here for the weekend.
and we will never, ever return.0 -
Im sure with his attitude ,they are going to straight to jail ,do not pass go ,do not collect wages that you have not earned!0
-
Why not just pay the money back or agree some paymetn plan, yes it may have been a mistake but you should have spoken up sooner0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 347.1K Banking & Borrowing
- 251.6K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 451.7K Spending & Discounts
- 239.3K Work, Benefits & Business
- 615.2K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 175K Life & Family
- 252.7K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16K Discuss & Feedback
- 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards