Grievance Investigation

warren100uk_2

Hi all,

Just looking for abit of advise really. Sorry try to cut a long story short.

3 months ago myself and 2 other people were called to a meeting with our area manager. He was new and we had not really chatted or met him before. We had our meetings seperatley, but they were the same context, " If you dont hit your target next month, i will find someone who can", "if i put you on a performance review it will be to get you out". There was other things said but it was very upsetting and just him bullying and intimidating us. He said he doesnt care about HR and that we all hide behind it. The meeting lasted over an hour,i have working in my industry for 10 years and never been treated like that. Especially when the month before we took a 12.5% paycut and then being threatened with being sacked. I spoke to HR about it and after thinking long and hard decided to lodge a grievance.
I had my first grievance meeting at head office and the 2 people doing it just tried to justify what he had done. I was the only 1 out of the 3 of us wanted to take it further, the other 2 people had complained to HR but didnt want to take it further. I gave the names of the other 2 people as possible witnesses to back up what had happened. I got a response 3 weeks later saying there was no evidence to back up my claim. I then spoke to the 2 other people to see if they had been contacted and they hadnt. If they had, they would have been willing to give a statement in. So i appealled on the grounds that the Investigation hadnt been done correctly because these people hadnt been contacted.
Today i got my decision and its the same, they wont do anything because of lack of evidence. It states that the people i gave in have been contacted but either refused to comment or asked not be mentioned.
Again i know these people well, so asked them again if they had been contacted and they again havent. So i caaled HR to question why not. They then told me that as the 2 people had contacted HR before i lodged my grievance and they had chosen not to complain that HR couldnt contact them for a statement, even though they are willing to.

HR are just sticking up and playing with rules, and telling me different things ever time i speak to them.

Does anyone know if they are right in not being able to contact them? I have spoke to ACAS who are unsure.

I cant and dont wont to work with this area manager anymore and have asked to be moved or him moved, but they wont do anything. I love my job and dont want to quit but as far as they are concerned the matter is finished with.

Any help or advice would be great.


Thanks

olias

warren100uk wrote: »

Hi all,

Just looking for abit of advise really. Sorry try to cut a long story short.

3 months ago myself and 2 other people were called to a meeting with our area manager. He was new and we had not really chatted or met him before. We had our meetings seperatley, but they were the same context, " If you dont hit your target next month, i will find someone who can", "if i put you on a performance review it will be to get you out". There was other things said but it was very upsetting and just him bullying and intimidating us. He said he doesnt care about HR and that we all hide behind it. The meeting lasted over an hour,i have working in my industry for 10 years and never been treated like that. Especially when the month before we took a 12.5% paycut and then being threatened with being sacked. I spoke to HR about it and after thinking long and hard decided to lodge a grievance.
I had my first grievance meeting at head office and the 2 people doing it just tried to justify what he had done. I was the only 1 out of the 3 of us wanted to take it further, the other 2 people had complained to HR but didnt want to take it further. I gave the names of the other 2 people as possible witnesses to back up what had happened. I got a response 3 weeks later saying there was no evidence to back up my claim. I then spoke to the 2 other people to see if they had been contacted and they hadnt. If they had, they would have been willing to give a statement in. So i appealled on the grounds that the Investigation hadnt been done correctly because these people hadnt been contacted.
Today i got my decision and its the same, they wont do anything because of lack of evidence. It states that the people i gave in have been contacted but either refused to comment or asked not be mentioned.
Again i know these people well, so asked them again if they had been contacted and they again havent. So i caaled HR to question why not. They then told me that as the 2 people had contacted HR before i lodged my grievance and they had chosen not to complain that HR couldnt contact them for a statement, even though they are willing to.

HR are just sticking up and playing with rules, and telling me different things ever time i speak to them.

Does anyone know if they are right in not being able to contact them? I have spoke to ACAS who are unsure.

I cant and dont wont to work with this area manager anymore and have asked to be moved or him moved, but they wont do anything. I love my job and dont want to quit but as far as they are concerned the matter is finished with.

Any help or advice would be great.


Thanks

Sounds to me like enough ground for an ET or even constructive dismissal. Speak with ACAS and/or CAB. The ball is in your court to take this further. What I would say is that if this manager has threatened to 'get you out' if you fail to hit targets, then you can bet he will also try any excuse to 'get you out' if he knows (as he should after the 'investigation') that you have lodged a grievance.

Don't stand for it. It will only get worse.

Olias

taylor21_2

Hi
Who held your appeal?
Normally it would be the person above the people who took the origional meeting. They would go through the complaint /evidence and make a judgement based on their own views and investigations of the complaint.

The other 2 can't make a complaint about the way you were treated as they were not in the room, so I kind of see where HR are coming from. If these 2 won't make their own complaint about their own situation it makes it difficult.
Its a shame that your colleagues decided not to take things further.

I would suggest the following -
*from now on keep a diary of dates and times and all conversations
*Try to deal with your line manager via email or fax as much as possible and *confirm telephone conversations via an email after they occur
*Keep records of everything including all steps you are taking to achieve your targets any positive feedback and appraisals you have had throughout the years, gather everything together.
*Ensure you are whiter than white from now on, don't give him any amunition
*Be professional at all times
*try not to get into one to one situations with him
*If this is causing you to feel stressed, sick, worried - log it with your GP they can help and this will also help you in the future should things continue.
*Print a copy of everything for your own personal file and keep this file and your diary away from the workplace.

Even though they haven't upheld your complaint you can bet your bottom dollor that he has had a good talking to, sometimes this is enough to make it stop.

If you don't feel that you are able to do the above I would look for another job but try not to give up, be strong!

warren100uk_2

Hi guys than for your reply.

In my decision, it said that there was no evidence and i couldn't prove any probability of this meetings context happening. ACAS were the ones who advised me to appeal on the grounds that the other 2 people were not contacted and asked if they thought their meetings were against company policy. ACAS also said that the other 2 could give an anonymous statement about their meetings. HR say they have not contacted them because that could be harassment, which i believe to be rubbish. As least one of the people would give a statement about their meeting if asked to, but does want to lodge a grievance . If they spoke to them it would show there is probability, that i was treated like that as they had the same done to them. Ever since i lodged the grievance he has been extra nice and false with me, i know that may seem a good thing but believe me this guy isnt nice. The company policy states that bullying and intimidation with not be tolerated on any level, so iam not prepared to let him get away with it.

Iam going to speak to a solicitor on Monday and get some more advise.

taylor21_2

Hi

You can't take a company to tribunal for bullying but you can discrimination or harrassment for example, hence the importance of keeping evidence and diaries.

His reaction is total text book!

Who took your appeal hearing?

warren100uk_2

Hi,

The regional manager and someone from HR did the first meeting, then the Head of retail and another HR manager did the appeal meeting.

To be honest, i think he has had a talking to because my Doc signed me off with stress and put me on anti depressants because its affected me alot.which i told them in my meeting. He is being VERY nice to me, but aswell as the area manger, iam annoyed with head office that they arent doing the investigation fully to even try a find out if anyone can back up what iam saying happened.

I dont want to let him get away with it.

Cheers

taylor21_2

I hear ya!!

The most important thing is for you focus on getting your strength back, and I mean that. There is nothing worse than feeling the way you do at the moment.

The best way you can ensure that he doesn't get away with it is to be prepared from now on. You know what you are up against so cover your back. Its not an ideal situation but needs must and if he hasn't changed you can guarantee he will slip up, this time you will be ready!

It is very difficult to claim unfair constructive dismissal sadly as you have to prove it.

You have done the right thing this far, the grievance, the appeal, visiting your GP. Now, for a strong case you need to keep excellent records to back yourself up.

I am guessing he is trying to make his mark and is quite inexperienced in getting the best from his people. Have you spoken to him face to face about how he makes you feel?

Did you ever ask your colleagues to write a statement for you? Sometimes colleagues will try and be supportive but deep down they have their own concerns and fears that prevent them from standing up when it comes to the crunch, which I totaly understand. You might be suprised though, if they are willing raise a new grievance.

I know its a hard pill to swallow but if they won't give you a statement, at the moment you will probably have to sit tight and follow the advice I have given. If it continues you will have evidence to present to the tribunal to support your vicitimisation/harrassment claim.

warren100uk_2

Thanks Taylor for your advise. Been very helpful.

olias

taylor21 wrote: »

Hi

You can't take a company to tribunal for bullying but you can discrimination or harrassment for example, hence the importance of keeping evidence and diaries.

His reaction is total text book!

Who took your appeal hearing?

Of course you can. It is a breach of contract, in that in any contract of employment there is an implied term of mutual trust and confidence (I think thats the term), bullying is breaching that term, therefore breaching the contract.

Olias

ohreally

olias wrote: »

Of course you can. It is a breach of contract, in that in any contract of employment there is an implied term of mutual trust and confidence (I think thats the term), bullying is breaching that term, therefore breaching the contract.

Olias

"It is not possible to make a direct complaint to an employment tribunal
about bullying"
Page 3
http://www.acas.org.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=306&p=0

DVardysShadow

olias wrote: »

Of course you can. It is a breach of contract, in that in any contract of employment there is an implied term of mutual trust and confidence (I think thats the term), bullying is breaching that term, therefore breaching the contract.

Olias

Fair point. Now budget about £10,000 for solicitors to argue the point.