What's the chance creditor will agree to this?

MissOptimistic

Hi everyone.
I have recently requested a copy of a cca from Citicard - the 12+2 days is up on Friday. I would be very surprised if they could come up with it, as the card was taken out sometime in the 1990's never mind before 2007.
What I was wondering was, presuming they don't have a valid cca - could I write to them and say something along the lines of "we both know you are unable to enforce the debt, but if you agree to reduce the balance outstanding substantially, I will continue to make reduced payments until it is paid off"?
The balance is about £13500 - I dread to think what they've had over the years, as despite never missing a payment until about 3 months ago, the interest rate has gone up and up to the 27.9% it was (and still is)
Would I be shooting myself in the foot by agreeing to pay (an admission the debt is owed?) - As morally, I don't just want to walk away from the debt, maybe just compromise a little.
I know there are lots of you who have lots of experience with this kind of thing and I'd be very grateful for your opinion/advice
Many Thanks

hettiecarro

:shhh: Hi

I'm relatively new here, so a bit unsure of my ground - but my instinct would tell me that you shouldn't take that course. If they can't supply the documents why make your situation worse? - and it may be that they will dig deeper to find the CCA documentation if you provoke them. I think at present this should be a case of letting sleeping dogs lie. I also believe they have another 30 days to respond? - but check that out with Narglebast who is excellent and very well informed.

I'll keep looking out to see how you are getting on. Good luck!

MissOptimistic

Thanks Hettie for your reply
Where I was coming from, was instead of having a debt of £13500 (albeit unenforceable) - I would prefer it if I could get them to write some of the debt off for good on the understanding that I continue to pay - Thereby we both win - they continue to receive payments and I get the debt reduced - do you not think this would be a better outcome for all?

gizmo111

What otherdebts do you have? Is it worth trashing your credit file for? Can you swap the debt to 0% or low lifetime balance transfer?

fatbelly

send the the 12+2 letter on Friday. Thre ball is then in their court. They've either got the cca or they haven't.

This is a legal issue not a moral one.

Stephan56

I assume they still have the account, have not passed it to a DCA and you are continuing to pay a, frankly, staggering, amount of interest. In my experience they will never agreeto a reduction unless you show them you are in financial difficulties - at which point you should be able to get the interest to stop accruing.

In my own case, when I got into difficulties, I said I could no longer service the account, and said I would pay £5 per month, if I recall, told them to stop charging interest and that, if and when my finanical situation changed, I would try to pay more. My amount owing was of a similar size to yours.

After about a year, they passed it to a DCA (who, after much digging, I found out had actually acquired the debt for circa 10p in the £1). I continued (and still continue) with the £5 per month payments. I CCA'd the DCA who of course could not produce any kind of agreeement. I am currently in negotiation with the DCA to pay off the balance at 20% of face value (figuring that gives the DCA a profit on the debt it bought at 10%). I will ONLY do this if the DCA then reports the account as SATISFIED (thereby contributing to the rehabilitation, somewhat, of my credit report).

While you would think the DCA woudl jump at this, not a bit of it and "negotiations" are ongoing.

I have received much advice to just stop paying and tell them to !!!!!! off (they cannot produce an agreement) but I always felt I kept the moral high ground (and would do so if it ever came in front of a judge) by just religiously making some kind of payment very month.

Just because you make payments you do NOT admit the debt. You may well be mking them under the assumption (later proven to have been mistaken) that there was a legally enforceable agreement in place.

I have tried many times to get DCAs and others to accept a reduced amount instead of nothign on an unenforceable debt. They come around in the end - but not until there has been a lot of (pointless) back and forth.

I agree entirely. It is a legal and not a moral issue. Also, don't forget the borrowing costs for a bank today are 0.5% - and they are charging circa 30% interest in many cases. That is PURE PROFIT to them.

fatbelly

Stephan56 wrote: »

Just because you make payments you do NOT admit the debt. .

Er...yes, you do.

I agree with your other points though, Stephan

pepe2008

fatbelly wrote: »

Er...yes, you do.

I agree with your other points though, Stephan

Making payments is not an automatic admission, however...

You have to be careful of the wording ( along the lines of ) 'If no Agreement can be produced then the Debt is Unenforceable without the PERMISSION of a Court'..........if you are making FULL payment, including Interest this could be a problem.

MissOptimistic

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply.
I actually defaulted on the account about 3 months ago as the monthly payments were over £400 with about £300 of this interest. I offered them £76 a month which was a pro-rata payment of what I had available each month. They wrote back saying that they would consider my request for reduced payments and stopping interest after I had made 2 monthly payments. Lo behold, I paid 2 payments of £76 only then to get a phonecall saying that it wasn't enough, I would have to pay £85 and after 2 months, they would review it again for stopping the interest...... Me thinks they are messing me around, it seems a familiar story, what happens if I pay the £85 for two months? - I think they would then say that wasn't enough. Meanwhile they are continuing to add interest on at over £300 per month.
Whether it is legal or moral, I would prefer to see the debt reduced (and have it in writing) and continue to pay, rather than know it is still sat there.

Stephan56

I am like you. Making payments but fighting to get it educed and settled for a small % of the claimed amount.

I was concerned by the post that somehow making payments can be taken as a "admission" of a debt.

I had thought that if they could NOT PRODUCE A CCA (signed by both parties etc) then they could NOT ENFORCE (and no judge had the power to enforce it - despite payments made or other admissions made).

If they COULD produce a CCA (signed by both parties) then a judge had the DISCRETION to rule it a valid agreement - and could take admissions and other things into account.

Have I got this wrong. Could someone clarify urgently.

Stephan56

Forgot to make the point in my earlier post:

If they cannot take "enforcment action" is no CCA (i.e. chase me for the debt, even if admitted) then how can they toehrwise enforce. Surely they woudl be barred for going to court to try and enforce debt -as all enforcmenet action barred due to no CCA. A Catch 22 for the DCA.

I am now confused!