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Warning... Ebay/paypal do not cover items that are not as decribed if collected!

I guess some of you know but ebay/paypal reject Significantly Not As Described (SNAB) appeals if the item was collected.
Collection only deals are frequent with large/heavy/expensive items.
They gave the reason that if collected, the buyer should see the item is not as described before taking it away.
My seller admits that it is not as described and knows i can't do anything about it. I've explained to Paypal that some items are impratical to check before taking away eg; electrical item full of lead, a boat engine that needs water, if it's a real diamond etc.
Ebay say that once the item is taken in can be damaged, changed etc by the collector, so there is no way it can be covered. I pointed out to them that if delivered, the item could also be damaged, changed etc in the hands of the customer. I got no where with them and the con man is still free to trade! This means that an ebayers can purposely sell duff items that are collection only that can't realistically be checked on collection.

In my case it was an outboard boat engine that had a fantastic description. Emails passed each other confirming its integrity and i was told that i could see it running on collection in a tank. Just before i got there (150 miles) to collect, i had a call to say it had been left under a cover on the drive because the seller had to go out.

The item looked as described and pristine, but when i got it home and ran it, the mid section fell apart. It had been smashed, carefully glued together, filled and repainted waiting for the glue to melt on its 1st use!

I dont normally get caught out but I have now learnt a lesson that i want to share with others.

My paypal account used my bank, not credit card! Anyone got any idea of any legal routes for justice.
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Comments

  • alison999
    alison999 Posts: 1,769 Forumite
    Judge Judy?

    For once, I'm on ebay with this, I appreciate it hasnt helped you but with the vast majority of cases it would apply that you can see someone is not as described when you go to collect it.
  • milfhunter
    milfhunter Posts: 103 Forumite
    Normally it's the sellers getting stiffed when paypal is used for collection only options with false Item Not Received claims.

    This is certainly a new turn of events.
  • soolin
    soolin Posts: 73,400 Ambassador
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    At the moment, and i'm sure I can be persuaded to change my mind, this seems like an excellent ruling from paypal. However it is a bit logical for paypal isn't it and I wonder if they are once again just getting muddled about their own processes?

    The idea that ebay force sellers to take paypal on an item to be collected and yet paypal offer no protection to the seller always seemed to me to be the one thing that I struggle to accept with ebay/paypal. Giving sellers protection against claims of item not as described when buyer collects seems terrible logical and is something I would welcome, or have i missed something
    I’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on the eBay, Auctions, Car Boot & Jumble Sales, Boost Your Income, Praise, Vents & Warnings, Overseas Holidays & Travel Planning , UK Holidays, Days Out & Entertainments boards. If you need any help on these boards, do let me know.. Please note that Ambassadors are not moderators. Any posts you spot in breach of the Forum Rules should be reported via the report button, or by emailing forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com.All views are my own and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
  • cyberbob
    cyberbob Posts: 9,480 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    I agree with paypal/ebay here
  • frivolous_fay
    frivolous_fay Posts: 13,302 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker Mortgage-free Glee!
    Boats are the new cars!
    My TV is broken! :cry:
    Edit: refunded £515 for TV 1.5 years out of warranty - thank you Sale of Goods Act! :j
  • yorksrabbit
    yorksrabbit Posts: 469 Forumite
    itsmeagain wrote: »
    This means that an ebayers can purposely sell duff items that are collection only that can't realistically be checked on collection.

    No they can't:

    http://www.gillhams.com/dictionary/217.cfm


    You can take any eBay seller to County Court on grounds of misrepresentation.

    There was another thread on here some time back about a caravan sale that made interesting reading because the seller was adjudged to be guilty of "innocent misrepresentation" -- though was still hammered by the Court because being well-meaning counts for nowt legally.

    On which basis, a seller who is guilty of wilful misrepresentation has no chance at all.
  • chja
    chja Posts: 913 Forumite
    Seems a sensible policy - it is reasonable to expect a collecting buyer to check the item and reject it at the time if they are not happy.

    You still have your legal rights should a fault later be discovered.
  • soolin
    soolin Posts: 73,400 Ambassador
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    chja wrote: »
    Seems a sensible policy - it is reasonable to expect a collecting buyer to check the item and reject it at the time if they are not happy.

    You still have your legal rights should a fault later be discovered.

    Chja has clarified my position exactly. Paypal tend to be rather automatic with refunds to buyers so I think it would be exceptionally poor of them to penalise sellers any more when buyers can check items being collected. However the fact that legal rights to redress still remain is good, you have not been disadvantaged by using paypal at all, however you had paid retains your right to a legal claim.
    I’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on the eBay, Auctions, Car Boot & Jumble Sales, Boost Your Income, Praise, Vents & Warnings, Overseas Holidays & Travel Planning , UK Holidays, Days Out & Entertainments boards. If you need any help on these boards, do let me know.. Please note that Ambassadors are not moderators. Any posts you spot in breach of the Forum Rules should be reported via the report button, or by emailing forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com.All views are my own and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
  • pinkshoes
    pinkshoes Posts: 20,343 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    If you paid by Paypal, why can't you open an "item not received" dispute? They'll have no tracking number, so will lose...

    If it won't let you open the dispute (i.e. if you've already opened a SNAD, I don't think you can open another one), then send them a recorded delivery letter, stating that unless you receive a full refund in 14 days, you will be taking legal action against them, and taking them to the small claims court.

    In the mean time, print out the ebay description, keep copies of any correspondence, and speak to a specialist who will hopefully give you a report confirming the damage to prove SNAD.
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
  • piratefairy
    piratefairy Posts: 4,342 Forumite
    In complete agreement with pinkshoes here, I think the rules are justified, although far too logical for ebay's usual mishmash of rules..But generally makes sense that anyone picking up could see if an item was obviously damaged. I think I personally would have waited for your seller to be back from their outing in order to see it in action as suggested, considering you had already travelled so far.
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