10 yrs on will u be envious of all those 'muppets' that got into B2L now?

IveSeenTheLight

ad9898 wrote: »

Dude, don't get up tight, I was just takin' the pi$$.;), my mother taught me lots of things, including manners, and not to take houses away from FTB'rs to make a fast buck on the back of HPI, when I already had a house to live in.:D

Don't understand why you think I am uptight, I was and still am very relaxed.
I even threw in a bit of text talk (LOL) and a couple of winky smileys (;))

I'm glad your mother taght you lots of things , including manners, but maybe she did not wisen you to the ways of the world in regards to businesses, economy and the marketplace

I could argue I have not taken away any FTBer property, I've provided rental accomodation for those that want to rent, or in an extreme case, that I have secured property for FTBers (my son) and in the meantime the property is being utilised by tenants while he grows up.

time for you to adapt and get on with life instead of waiting, hoping, needing things to be handed to you on a plate
Maybe she needs to cut the maternal strings and let you fly alone a bit. That'll help with your independence and learning how to get on in life

lostinrates

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

.... I have secured property for FTBers (my son) ''''''get on with life instead of waiting, hoping, needing things to be handed to you on a plate.... cut the maternal strings and let you fly alone a bit. That'll help with your independence and learning how to get on in life

I couldn't help it, too funny.

IveSeenTheLight

ad9898 wrote: »

Moderate amounts of BTL were a good thing, especially with the lack of council housing now, however, the government should have bought in legislation to curb it at a certain level, other wise it just turns into a massive ponzi scheme, and we all know what happens to those.

ad, it's been shown many times that BTL in effect took up the mantle of the reduction of social housing.
In fact it has taken up less properties for rent than has been lost from social housing.

I therefore don't understand how you could have wanted even less rental properties, given that we are at the lowest amount of rental properties for a century!!!

dopester

misskool wrote: »

I don't really see the bile for a B2L (except maybe the amateur ones who had no business plans and weren't in it for the long term).

Fine misskool.

Fine, provided you are equally as dispassionate when over-extended BTLers lose their portfolios and their homes from which they equity-released to fund their BTL acquisitions.

In many instances I personally know of towards the end years of the boom, the business plan was how house prices had gained so much value, so must do again over the next 10 years. Friends of my mothers in their 50s and 60s MEWing and buying more than 1 BTL at higher prices than many an FTB could or wanted to get in for. Already many of whom are being pursued for debt, or are in NE. They've kissed goodbye to their own homes.

In it for the long-term. Fine. So long as you are open-minded enough to accept the long-term could be prices heading downwards and then eventually levelling off for many many years, with some areas dropping significantly in value.

IveSeenTheLight

lostinrates wrote: »

I couldn't help it, too funny.

lol, I can see how this would seem an ironic statement.

At the moment, it is not my intention to 'hand' over to my son, although it will always remain an option (as indicated that it would be in an extreme case.

IveSeenTheLight wrote:

or in an extreme case, that I have secured property for FTBers (my son) and in the meantime the property is being utilised by tenants while he grows up.

It's not correct or legal simply to 'hand' it to him in any case as capital gains tax would be incurred, i.e. a property bought at £150k and then passed on in say 20 years with a market value of £300k would result in capital gains being applied to the £150k minus the personal allowance.

At todays figures, this would simply equate to £25,200 ((£150k - £10k) * 18%)

I also did not say that I would not sell it to my son at the market rates, however I would be making it easier as he would not for that property be entering into a bidding process.

At the end of the day, my point was that I do not believe I have removed the property from FTBers as the amount of properties taken up by BTL is less than those sold from social housing stock.

If it is the argument that there is not enough housing supply, then this is somthing entirely different and not as a result of BTL as previously shown.
I personally, dont see there being a shortage of property as I have not seen a period where there are zero properties for sale and know many properties that are derelict and could be renovated as a living property.

dopester

silvercar wrote: »

A lot of BTL landlords will be saved from repo by the drop in interest rates.

The business minded landlords will benefit from the drop in interest rates by investing in their properties (new boilers, double glazing etc), the others will draw on the extra profit the rental income gives them.

No, because even with 0% rates, those who choose to get out, and sell, - accepting lower prices to do so - brings down the value for all other properties.

Values are set at the margin. By those buying and selling. When a comparable property sells at £95K, then similar house next door owned by BTL won't be holding it's £165K peak. The market value is set by what comparable properties are selling for.

Rents have a long way to drop as well. One hell of a business to be involved in. All that stuff you say to invest in... fine, but the property values will continue to fall. Also if you wait, double-glazing, new boilers and lots of other improvements, you'll be able to source at cheaper prices.

neas

if i was going to do BTL, i wouldnt be envious of tghose entering BTL now... I'd just do BTL in 2 years time when market had bottomed.

Itys like asking me a loaded question,

Would be jealous of the business man who sacrificed his time, and money, risked it all and won? Who put his family home and health at risk? but who is now a millionaire?

Not really, theres lots of 'self made' millionaires who risked and won, but theres equally just as many failed businessess out there too.

Without risk theres no gain, but with risk goes a chance of failing. I think with all these type of questions people fail to mention the casualties of BTL, yes maybe they were greedy etc, but they failed, they gambled and lost it all.

Like the people BTLing overexpensive flats to hae them sit empty...

Conrad

mewbie wrote: »

I'm not currently envious of those who thought they'd seen the bottom of the dot com boom, ostriches, antiques, classic cars, stamps, tulips, etc.

None of those 'investments' has a particularly significant utility value, they were merely fads.

Property for most of us is very special. People aspire to own property and see it as being able to qfford them enjoyment, utility and a safe place (on average) to stick your hard earned.

Thats' why property will 100% guranteed rise well in the next 10 years - and yes you've forced me into this one - "remember where you heard it"

Conrad

dopester wrote: »

.

Rents have a long way to drop as well. One hell of a business to be involved in. All that stuff you say to invest in... fine, but the property values will continue to fall. Also if you wait, double-glazing, new boilers and lots of other improvements, you'll be able to source at cheaper prices.

This misses one fundamental point; The average Joe thinks there is nowhere else to invest so the property bandwaggon becomes naturaly self perpetuating.

I would think investors buying now can expect around 40% price inflation in the next 10 years. As long as the rent covers the debt, which it will for the majority, thats all that really matters to them.

I talk to these people day in day out, and at the mo most are pretty much focused on capital growth. Now I'm from the school that puts the emphasis on yield, but on the other hand there is nowt wrong with buying for growth - people get overly narrow minded on the yield thang.

Gorgeous_George

House prices will never be allowed to rocket again. Lending multiples will be limited by legislation so HPI will only ever be at or about wage inflation levels.

At present, I could buy a 3 bedroomed BTL house for about £80K. Rent would be £475 or 7.1%. That is not enough rental income to make it worth my while - especially as voids, maintenance and other fees are not included in that potential return.

Of course, assuming HPI matches wage inflation and averages 3% per annum, that would make the total return nearer 10% gross - still not worth the hassle of tenants and the risk of financial ruin.

I don't do envy. Admiration yes, envy no.

GG