Loan liability on death

shellsy

Hi there,

My father recently passed away and I am trying to sort out the many debts left behind. Having notified the companies and awaiting responses, one debt collection company telephoned to say that they purchased the debt back in 1999 and that the loan itself had been taken out in joint names, therefore my mum is responsible for maintaining the agreed payments. As my mum has no recollection of it being in joint names I have requested a copy of the signed agreement (at which point I was told this was 'stalling tactics'), the debt company have agreed to 'hold' the account indefinately until they locate and forwward the signed agreement to me. Question is; in the unlikely event that they are unable to find it - what would happen then - can they pursue ?

I explained to them I am just looking after my mothers interest !

Many thanks
Shellsy

cyril82

If they purchased the debt they almost certainly will not have an agreement, they definately don't have one that proves you owe them money as you did not sign an agreement with the debt collection company.

Did you send a formal cca request in writing with a £1 postal order?

If not do that and send by recorded delivery. After 14 days including time allowed for postage, if they do not provide the agreement they are in default and the debt enters dispute. if a further 30 days passes without them producing a cca then it becomes an offense for them to try to collect/enforce the debt without providing the cca.

they will likely just write this one off.

shellsy

Thank you Cyril ! This only happened yesterday so my request for a copy document is only verbal at the moment. I will take your advice; this may sound a silly question; what does CCA mean and why the £1.00 postal order?

Strangely, I have sent written notification of dads death to this company twice and they have not acknowledged it in writing at all, only a telephone call yesterday to arrange payment!

Shellsy

lemonjelly

Be careful to ensure your mother does not acknowledge this debt, as it may be statute barred. If the account has not been actioned for a period of 6 years they cannot recover anything.

cyril82

Hi, cca means consumer credit agreement. I have tried to upload a template letter for you but for some reason it won't upload. i'll try again in a minute.

shellsy

Cyril,

My dad had been making regular payments to the debt collection company, which obviosuly stopped when he died last month.

When the debt collection company telephoned yesterday, my mother verbally agreed to make a payment monthly (she thought it was totally different company who she does actually owe money too)

Hence the reason I took over and called them to explain she had made an error.

cyril82

This isn't the template i use but it should do the trick, i have copied it from another thread in this forum. Important points, send the request recorded delivery so you can prove they received it and DO NOT sign it as some dca'a have been known to scan your signature onto an agreement, don't forget the £1 fee by postal order, not cheque as again that would have your signature on it.

Dear Sir/Madam

Re:− Account/Reference Number

I do not acknowledge any debt to your company.

With reference to the above, i would be grateful if you would send me a copy of any credit agreement you hold that would give you cause to beleive i am the debtor in question, statement of account and notice of assignment.

We understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79), we are entitled to receive a copy of our credit agreement on request. We enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

We understand a copy of our credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

We understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

Note: the fee of one pond is not to be used for any other purpose and if you can not provide a copy of the consumer credit agreement relating to this debt you should return the fee.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

cyril82

shellsy wrote: »

Cyril,

My dad had been making regular payments to the debt collection company, which obviosuly stopped when he died last month.

When the debt collection company telephoned yesterday, my mother verbally agreed to make a payment monthly (she thought it was totally different company who she does actually owe money too)

Hence the reason I took over and called them to explain she had made an error.

it doesn't matter what was said on the phone, without the cca it is still unenforceable.

shellsy

Thank you so very much for the template and advice Cyril, at least I know what to do now.

Its scary sometimes dealing with these people without the knowledge of how to handle them . If it hadn't been for reading this site over the past few weeks, I would never have known to even request a copy in the first place, I would have taken them at face value!

If she is legitimately liable then mum is happy to continue the payment agreement, we just want to make sure that we she isn't an easy target.

Many thanks
Shellsy

shellsy

An update - the dca have written to say that they have written to the original lender but cannot provide a copy of the agreement, the letter then go's on to offer a full and final settlement figure of 50% payable over 3 months!!

I wanted proof that this was a joint debt and mum was actually liable after my dad passed, but I am none the wiser !!!??

Any ideas for the next step ?

Confused
Shellsy

lemonjelly

shellsy wrote: »

An update - the dca have written to say that they have written to the original lender but cannot provide a copy of the agreement, the letter then go's on to offer a full and final settlement figure of 50% payable over 3 months!!

I wanted proof that this was a joint debt and mum was actually liable after my dad passed, but I am none the wiser !!!??

Any ideas for the next step ?

Confused
Shellsy

Burden of proof lies with the lender. If they cannot provide proof of liability, your mum is entitled to refuse payment at this time.

Think about it ultimately - if they sued your mum in the county court, they'd need to show the judge your mum was liable. They can't do that. Therefore, would a judge give a judgement in their favour?