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advantages and disadvantages of grade II listed properties
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# 1
puddy
Old 25-05-2008, 10:36 PM
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Default advantages and disadvantages of grade II listed properties

ive seen a lovely cottage by the sea in kent but its grade II listed. i would be interested in it if it wasnt for this. what does it mean exactly. im worried it means i cant change anything without planning permission and that any changes are going to cost the earth
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# 2
wymondham
Old 25-05-2008, 10:48 PM
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I don't know for sure but think it means severe restrictions on what you can/can't do to the proprerty, and if you do have work done it has to be done to a higher standard 'in keeping' with the grade - hence upkeep will be more expensive than usual.....??

Unless you can afford the extra costs I'd look elsewhere... I can't see any advantages over it must be quite pretty to be graded?
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# 3
Doozergirl
Old 25-05-2008, 11:13 PM
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If you love period property then it isn't so much of a problem because you want to keep it's character too. Sometimes a council may only be concerned with the face of a property rather than the inside.

Yes, you need listed building consent for structural changes and things like new windows and it might cost a bit more. It really depends on the materials used.

Being a listed building isn't all about keeping original features. You can extend the houses, but it's important that you can read the history of a building so an extension might have to be in a totally different style or they will want to see an easily readable cutoff between the new and old. We were allowed to remove the plasterwork between some of the beams on the original outer wall of the house to open it up to the extension; unfortunately the structural engineer thought that because the house was so old, the plaster had become part of the structure. That house was fascinating. I'd spend ages looking at the weird and wonderful brickwork in the inglenook or the carpenter's marks in the beams.

I have family who quite happily railroad over their listing. If a conservation officer hasn't been in for years then their view is that they don't know what was done - whether it was them or a previous owner. I don't really take the same view - when we renovated the Grade II listed cottage that we had we ran it all past the conservation officer. We did manage to have things like plastic guttering because the listing actually means replacing like for like which is what was there. You can also get past building regulations in many respects because of this. The listing overrides building regulations though you'll find it riles building inspectors no end

Our new house I will be putting in timber windows. It's not listed but the character is important to me!

It really depends on how much needs doing to a property as to how much you're going to end up spending. If needs a full overhaul then no doubt it will be quite expensive.
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Last edited by Doozergirl; 25-05-2008 at 11:20 PM.
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# 4
Canucklehead
Old 26-05-2008, 7:52 AM
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Good morning: Bricks and Brass is an excellent resource for all things related to period properties. Where in Kent is the cottage? (We're are on the Kent coast.)

HTH

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# 5
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Old 26-05-2008, 8:20 AM
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The listing is very specific - it will describe exactly what is listed. It could be exterior, interior or both. And it doesn't necessarily mean that the "original" features are listed. What's listed depends on the features at the time it was listed (I know of a 17C cottage listed with 1960s metal framed windows!).

Speak to the Conservation Officer at the local planning department (Council) to find out what the listing covers.

Bear in mind, that the new owner is responsible for correcting any "mistakes" made by previous owners. If work has been done and it's not in line with the listing, then you can be required to put that right. Make sure your solicitor gets full disclosure from the other side (if you go ahead) and consider getting the Conservation Officer to inspect the property before exchange. Or - as the people in DG's post do - just "run the risk" that the Conservation Officer or a future buyer don't find out ..... !

Whilst I love period properties, I would hesitate with a listed building. Simply because I tend to think that you are more of a Caretaker of the building, for future generations
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# 6
wymondham
Old 26-05-2008, 8:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debt_Free_Chick View Post
I tend to think that you are more of a Caretaker of the building, for future generations
I think this is a good way of thinking about it, good analagy.
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# 7
Geenie
Old 26-05-2008, 8:38 AM
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I lived in a Grade 2 listed house for 20 years and yes you do need to get planning permission to do lots of things. We gutted the building and started again because it had been run down and had to follow certain rules, but my experience was that they were more strict about altering the outside appearance then the inside.

We were able to change the layout of rooms and infact added a large extension 10 years later, but we had to keep everything in character with the original building from the outside and things like the double glazed windows we had put in had to be made of wood, so were more expensive. But the house was worth it because if you like the character of a listed building enough to buy it in the first place, you will be happy to continue retaining it as much as possible.


"Life is difficult. Life is a series of problems. What makes life difficult is that the process of confronting and solving problems is a painful one." M Scott Peck. The Road Less Travelled.
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# 8
pawpurrs
Old 26-05-2008, 8:48 AM
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Never lived in a house that wasnt listed, love the character of older buildings, and yes of course it costs more both to buy and to repair, ie roof tiles if ou need a new roof, but if you love old buildings it is most certainley worth it.
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# 9
Geenie
Old 26-05-2008, 8:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debt_Free_Chick View Post
The listing is very specific - it will describe exactly what is listed. It could be exterior, interior or both. And it doesn't necessarily mean that the "original" features are listed. What's listed depends on the features at the time it was listed (I know of a 17C cottage listed with 1960s metal framed windows!).
The cob/thatch village I live in had everything listed in the 1980's so we have many examples of what you mention, even the old sheds in the garden. Our own house had a large corrugated plastic "conservatory" shack on the back, which we had to get planning permission to pull down!


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# 10
merlinthehappypig
Old 26-05-2008, 9:01 AM
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Having lived in both listed and non-listed buildings I personally wouldn't touch a listed building, or one in a conservation area, with someone else's bargepole.

I'm renting a listed house at present which is fair enough as it isn't mine and I don't want to do anything to it, but I want to be able to do what I want, when I want, to my own house without worrying that someone else can dictate what I can and can't do.

Listing is fine in principle, but there are some very daft interpretations of 'features' that need to be saved (like the plastic shack mentioned previously).

I'm with Doozergirl on this one. I'd like to see more flexibility for owners to make alterations, provided the history and any special features of the building can be read.
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# 11
puddy
Old 26-05-2008, 9:47 PM
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http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetai...a_n=2&tr_t=buy

im not sure its really what im looking for, i quite like flats and im looking to over look the sea, but i love old things and this is very cute
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# 12
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Old 26-05-2008, 10:04 PM
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The proportions are not good in many of the rooms and the ceilings are very sloping! It would be difficult to get furniture in and as much as a room with just a bed and side tables looks good on camera in these makeover programmes, the reality is that we need storage space for our smalls and a decent wall to put things against! Good bathroom.


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# 13
Doozergirl
Old 26-05-2008, 10:30 PM
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Have you been to see it yet? Bed two mentions a central structure which divides the room which may be awkward.

If you get a carpenter in, they'll find it very easy to build storage/wardrobes into rooms with eaves.
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# 14
neverdespairgirl
Old 27-05-2008, 12:30 AM
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My parents owned a Grade II listed building (the oldest part of the house was built in 1490-odd) for many years.

You do need to get planning permission for structural changes, even including replacing windows, for example. The upside is that you live in a lovely place!

My parents now own a Grade II* listed house, built in the early 14th century, and the regulations are even tighter. The barns, stables etc are all listed as well. It doesn't mean you can't change anything - the house has been completely re-done over the past 4 years, including the instillation of mains water, electricity, sewage, etc! But there is a bit more hassle involved.
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# 15
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Old 27-05-2008, 2:47 AM
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This might sound "picky" but it's meant to be helpful ....

On the subject of planning permission, you will need listed building consent as well as PP for some work. For other work, you might not need PP but will still need listed building consent. The two consents are separate so if you need both, you must apply for both and get both. In our district, you'll get two separate bits of paper too!
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# 16
Canucklehead
Old 27-05-2008, 9:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenner View Post
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetai...a_n=2&tr_t=buy

im not sure its really what im looking for, i quite like flats and im looking to over look the sea, but i love old things and this is very cute

Good morning: I thought it might be that one...are you familiar with the area?

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# 17
puddy
Old 27-05-2008, 11:08 PM
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yes, i want anywhere to the east of norfolk road ideally and on the sea side of northdown road. theres a couple of nice ones at the end of leicester avenue right by the green at palm bay, however, they havent got gas. i sent an email to scotia power (as requested when i rang up) to ask where the mains gas was in some of the roads round there and havent got a reply, cant be doing with electric heating or electric ovens
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# 18
whatamess
Old 27-05-2008, 11:27 PM
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I do know that Thanet District Council can be really picky. A friend lived in a listed building and they were really funny about the plaster finish etc..

Looking at the birds eye view it looks like an old annexe to the main house. It is not very big though.
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# 19
Doozergirl
Old 27-05-2008, 11:28 PM
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The satellite dish on the front wall suggests that they mightn't be all that picky!
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# 20
whatamess
Old 27-05-2008, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doozergirl View Post
The satellite dish on the front wall suggests that they mightn't be all that picky!
Quote:
Examples of work which may need consent include changing windows and doors, painting over brickwork or removing external surfaces, putting in dormer windows or rooflights, putting up aerials, satellite dishes and burglar alarms, changing roofing materials, moving or removing internal walls, making new doorways, and removing or altering fireplaces, panelling or staircases.
Taken from English Heritage website.

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.1378

It probably goes back to what you said earlier about visits from the conservation officer. They haven't had a visit so its been left up.
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