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  • FIRST POST
    • john539
    • By john539 25th May 08, 10:35 PM
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    john539
    Duplicate Tax Disc -on taxed car with no tax disc, bought at auction
    • #1
    • 25th May 08, 10:35 PM
    Duplicate Tax Disc -on taxed car with no tax disc, bought at auction 25th May 08 at 10:35 PM
    I have just bought a 2nd hand car at auction which did not come with a tax disc.

    I checked DVLA Vehicle Enquiry & found it's taxed till end of September.

    According to DVLA website I can apply for a duplicate tax disc if I am the Registered Keeper, which I now am. DVLA website does not seem to distinguish between current/previous owners of car or tax disc.

    How to apply for a duplicate tax disc
    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/HowToTaxYourVehicle/DG_4022040

    Download 'Duplicate vehicle licence disc application form' - form V20
    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/HowToTaxYourVehicle/DG_4022040?IdcService=GET_FILE&dID=98476&Rendition =Web

    The previous owner may or may not have the previous tax disc & may intend to get a refund.

    Can I get a Duplicate Tax Disc before they get a refund ?
    .
    Last edited by john539; 25-05-2008 at 10:41 PM.
Page 1
    • anewman
    • By anewman 25th May 08, 10:39 PM
    • 8,773 Posts
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    anewman
    • #2
    • 25th May 08, 10:39 PM
    • #2
    • 25th May 08, 10:39 PM
    They'd have got a refund already, or otherwise by the end of this month to ensure they don't lose out on one of the unused months.
    • terryw
    • By terryw 25th May 08, 10:40 PM
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    terryw
    • #3
    • 25th May 08, 10:40 PM
    • #3
    • 25th May 08, 10:40 PM
    I have just bought a 2nd hand car at auction which did not come with a tax disc.

    I checked DVLA Vehicle Enquiry & found it's taxed till end of September.

    According to DVLA website I can apply for a duplicate tax disc if I am the Registered Keeper, which I now am.

    How to apply for a duplicate tax disc
    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/HowToTaxYourVehicle/DG_4022040

    Download 'Duplicate vehicle licence disc application form' - form V20
    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/HowToTaxYourVehicle/DG_4022040?IdcService=GET_FILE&dID=98476&Rendition =Web

    The previous owner may or may not have the previous tax disc & may intend to get a refund.

    Can I get a Duplicate Tax Disc before they get a refund ?
    Originally posted by john539
    Sorry but no. You did not buy the vehicle with a valid tax disc which you have lost.

    terryw
    • Keith
    • By Keith 25th May 08, 10:41 PM
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    Keith
    • #4
    • 25th May 08, 10:41 PM
    • #4
    • 25th May 08, 10:41 PM
    Technically you can, but you need to have the V5 in your name before you could.
    However, how would you legally answer question 3?
    • john539
    • By john539 25th May 08, 10:47 PM
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    john539
    • #5
    • 25th May 08, 10:47 PM
    • #5
    • 25th May 08, 10:47 PM
    Look at the DVLA links, the DVLA are only interested in who is the Registered Keeper when they process request. If my name is there, they will process.

    If previous owner does not apply for refund quick (in next few weeks), it seems I can get a Duplicate.
    • john539
    • By john539 25th May 08, 10:49 PM
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    john539
    • #6
    • 25th May 08, 10:49 PM
    • #6
    • 25th May 08, 10:49 PM
    Sorry but no. You did not buy the vehicle with a valid tax disc which you have lost.
    Originally posted by terryw
    I don't know where the tax disc is & I don't know previous owner.

    As far as I know it's lost.
    • terryw
    • By terryw 25th May 08, 10:51 PM
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    terryw
    • #7
    • 25th May 08, 10:51 PM
    • #7
    • 25th May 08, 10:51 PM
    I don't know where the tax disc is & I don't know previous owner.

    As far as I know it's lost.
    Originally posted by john539
    You bought the car at an auction. The tax disc was not include in the lot. Read the description and listen to the auctioneer

    bw

    terryw
    • john539
    • By john539 25th May 08, 10:58 PM
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    john539
    • #8
    • 25th May 08, 10:58 PM
    • #8
    • 25th May 08, 10:58 PM
    You bought the car at an auction. The tax disc was not include in the lot. Read the description and listen to the auctioneer
    Originally posted by terryw
    Auctioneer didn't mention tax disc.

    If it's still taxed in 1-2 weeeks should I get the Duplicate tax disc ?

    Would the auctioneer know or be interested, as the DVLA don't seem to be, they are only interested in who is the Registered Keeper.
    • Keith
    • By Keith 25th May 08, 11:05 PM
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    Keith
    • #9
    • 25th May 08, 11:05 PM
    • #9
    • 25th May 08, 11:05 PM
    If the auctioneer didn't mention it, it's not included in the sale.

    Think of it another way, say you get a duplicate, then the previous owner claims their rightful refund. I wonder if the DVLA will just shrug their shoulders about your fraudulent claim for a duplicate tax disc
    • john539
    • By john539 25th May 08, 11:38 PM
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    john539
    If the auctioneer didn't mention it, it's not included in the sale.

    Think of it another way, say you get a duplicate, then the previous owner claims their rightful refund. I wonder if the DVLA will just shrug their shoulders about your fraudulent claim for a duplicate tax disc
    Originally posted by Keith
    You're reading too much into it.

    The only knowledge I have of the tax disc is that the car is taxed & I dont have it.

    I do not know where the previous tax disc is, whether the previous owner even has it & what they they intend to do with it.

    The DVLA are only interested in who the Registered Keeper is.
    • Keith
    • By Keith 25th May 08, 11:47 PM
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    Keith
    You've bought a car with no tax disc, yes?

    I guess you've found out using vehicle enquiry that it is taxed, yes?

    You did not purchase the tax which is currently shown against the vehicle, agree?

    The former owner of the vehicle may be holding the original tax disc and plan to get a refund, they may not, they may have just thought stuff the dealer I'll keep the tax.

    You then go ahead with your plan which from looking at the form you can't legally fill in. I'll draw your attention to the second line of A. Which reads "Your original"

    The former owner then goes ahead and gets a refund.

    The DVLA now have a shortfall in tax and either come after you or just cancel the duplicate disc making your vehicle on the road untaxed and you back on here when it is clamped.

    But never mind, the DVLA are only interested in who the registered keeper is. Course they are.
    • john539
    • By john539 26th May 08, 1:00 AM
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    john539
    You've bought a car with no tax disc, yes?

    I guess you've found out using vehicle enquiry that it is taxed, yes?

    You did not purchase the tax which is currently shown against the vehicle, agree?

    The former owner of the vehicle may be holding the original tax disc and plan to get a refund, they may not, they may have just thought stuff the dealer I'll keep the tax.

    You then go ahead with your plan which from looking at the form you can't legally fill in. I'll draw your attention to the second line of A. Which reads "Your original"

    The former owner then goes ahead and gets a refund.

    The DVLA now have a shortfall in tax and either come after you or just cancel the duplicate disc making your vehicle on the road untaxed and you back on here when it is clamped.

    But never mind, the DVLA are only interested in who the registered keeper is. Course they are.
    Originally posted by Keith
    Sorry you've lost me, unless you're being pedantic.

    The "Your" applies to whoever is applying for a Duplicate.

    The former owner won't get a refund if I have got a Duplicate.

    The DVLA always word their rules & forms very very carefully.
    You will note they only refer to Registered Keeper.
  • goldspanners
    if you are so sure then why ask?
    just apply for the tax disc then.
    ...work permit granted!
    • Altarf
    • By Altarf 26th May 08, 6:32 AM
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    Altarf
    I don't know where the tax disc is & I don't know previous owner. As far as I know it's lost.
    Originally posted by john539
    And I am sure that if you believe your logic then you will honestly answer question 3, and put in the box the truth that 'you have bought a car and there was no tax disc on it, therefore as the DVLA show it as taxed, it must lost'.

    Will the DVLA send you a replacement disc - oh look, flying pigs.
    • S0litaire
    • By S0litaire 26th May 08, 6:53 AM
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    S0litaire
    Guess he didn't read the bit where the previous owner needs to send his "TAX DISK" back to the DVLA for his refund. The DVLA will spot you applying for a replacement saying you lost it. (Ain't that called fraud?)

    Guess what the DVLA might do.....
    Laters

    Sol

    "Have you found the secrets of the universe? Asked Zebade "I'm sure I left them here somewhere"
    • john539
    • By john539 26th May 08, 10:14 AM
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    john539
    Guess he didn't read the bit where the previous owner needs to send his "TAX DISK" back to the DVLA for his refund. The DVLA will spot you applying for a replacement saying you lost it. (Ain't that called fraud?)

    Guess what the DVLA might do.....
    Originally posted by S0litaire
    The DVLA will do nothing, they only want money.
    They will deal with the 1st request that comes in, issue a Duplicate or Refund.

    If the previous owner has a problem, they'll leave it to him to sort out.
    • john539
    • By john539 26th May 08, 10:19 AM
    • 14,962 Posts
    • 10,080 Thanks
    john539
    And I am sure that if you believe your logic then you will honestly answer question 3, and put in the box the truth that 'you have bought a car and there was no tax disc on it, therefore as the DVLA show it as taxed, it must lost'.

    Will the DVLA send you a replacement disc - oh look, flying pigs.
    Originally posted by Altarf
    Do we know the previous owner has the tax disc ?

    No, we don't.
    • S0litaire
    • By S0litaire 26th May 08, 10:32 AM
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    S0litaire
    Do we know the previous owner has the tax disc ?

    No, we don't.
    Originally posted by john539
    Do you actually READ these posts?

    once the DVLA has received a claim to refund the tax disk (with said tax disk provided as evidence) a couple of clicks on a keyboard, then the DVLA database is updated to sat that the car no longer has a valid Tax disk.

    you are happily motoring along doing 65mpg on the motor way then Mr Plod in his panda car comes up behind you and flashes his wee blue lights.

    Guess what the little box called "ANPR" has beeped to tell the polds in the panda that your Numberplate, according the the DVLA database, has NO valid Tax therefore no insurance or MOT!

    so it's probably gonna cost you £300+ (£60 fine and points £120 for them to tow it away plus £20 per day storage) to get your car back. Those are rough estimates.

    That's not even including the trouble you'll get in for if you DID get a disk from the DVLA think the legal phrase "obtaining with deception" my get banded about...


    But if you think you'll get away with it! Go for it!
    Laters

    Sol

    "Have you found the secrets of the universe? Asked Zebade "I'm sure I left them here somewhere"
  • Iamthesmartestmanalive
    What a !!!!!! the OP is

    This would be called theft/deception

    You do not have a valid tax disc which you have a legal obligation to therefore you have no right to make a claim

    You could face prosecution and likely heavy legal costs

    But hey you know best, go ahead with your fraud, I hope you get caught
    • Keith
    • By Keith 26th May 08, 10:55 AM
    • 2,812 Posts
    • 1,800 Thanks
    Keith
    Sorry you've lost me, unless you're being pedantic.

    The "Your" applies to whoever is applying for a Duplicate.

    The former owner won't get a refund if I have got a Duplicate.

    The DVLA always word their rules & forms very very carefully.
    You will note they only refer to Registered Keeper.
    Originally posted by john539
    They are very careful with their wording for a reason. The word "your" is a possessive word indicating something that belongs to you. Whilst completing the form you can not answer the question where is your tax disc because you have never had possession of one.

    When the application for a refund is recieved it will be passed to the higher department to sort out, which is when your duplicate will be cancelled.

    I just googled duplicate car tax fraud on google and this is the number one hit, a mod should change the title to "How not to commit VED Fraud"
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