IMPORTANT! This is MoneySavingExpert's open forum - anyone can post

Please exercise caution & report any spam, illegal, offensive, racist, libellous post to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com

  • Be nice to all MoneySavers
  • All the best tips go in the MoneySavingExpert weekly email

    Plus all the new guides, deals & loopholes

  • No spam/referral links
or Login with Facebook
Statutory Periodic Tenancy
Closed Thread
Views: 11,011
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
# 1
mell242
Old 09-05-2008, 9:31 AM
MoneySaving Convert
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 123
Unhappy Statutory Periodic Tenancy

Hi,
My Assured Shorthold Tenancy ends next Friday after 6 months. I was a bit confused as to why we hadn't heard from the agents about renewing so I phoned them just now. They told me that it 'rolls on' and I've checked the original agreement which states that it continues as a Statutory Periodic Tenancy.:confused:

I have never come across this before as I've always signed another 6 month or yearly contract when the last one ends with other agents/landlords.

I just wanted some advice really. I am pregnant, the baby is due in October and I was hoping for some kind of stability for a year at least. Now I'm worried that we can be given just 2 months notice to leave when I could be about to give birth! Do you think I should let the agents know my worries and if possible, try to gauge how long the landlord wishes to keep renting the property?

I've always felt secure renting in the past knowing I had 6 months at least before I might have to find somewhere else. The agent did say on the phone that they assume that all properties are long term lets but I'm in a bit of a panic now.

Does this mean that we will not sign another agreement?
We also have a certificate for our deposit protection which expires next week (when the tenancy does). Should we get a new one?

Any thoughts/experiences would be appreciated :rolleyes:
mell242 is offline
Report Post
# 2
tbs624
Old 09-05-2008, 12:55 PM
Deliciously Dedicated Diehard MoneySaving Devotee
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 10,628
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mell242 View Post
Hi,
My Assured Shorthold Tenancy ends next Friday after 6 months. I was a bit confused as to why we hadn't heard from the agents about renewing so I phoned them just now.
You could maybe have contacted the Agent yourself before now if it was important to you to have greater security of tenure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mell242 View Post
They told me that it 'rolls on' and I've checked the original agreement which states that it continues as a Statutory Periodic Tenancy.:confused:

I have never come across this before as I've always signed another 6 month or yearly contract when the last one ends with other agents/landlords.
It is standard - when neither LL or Tenant do anything about a new contract, and the Tenant has not moved out, then the Agreement will roll onto a Periodic.

If you really want to sign up for another AST, tell the LA and or LL straight away but be prepared to have to pay out for one of the "Admin" charges so beloved of LAs, and they may say they also say that they want to credit check you again.

If you are a good tenant, most LLs won't want to lose you - many people continue on a Periodic for a number of years. Talk to the LA/LL - good communication is key!
tbs624 is offline
Report Post
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to tbs624 For This Useful Post: Show me >>
# 3
mell242
Old 09-05-2008, 3:18 PM
MoneySaving Convert
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 123
Default

Yes, maybe I should have contacted them before but I didn't! I assumed that we weren't being kicked out as we hadn't had 2 months notice but I was expecting a new tenancy agreement.

I haven't rented for over 7 years as I sold my house last year to rent so this is all a bit new to me and I'm having to remember back to my student days!

Thanks for your comments anyway I will attempt to talk to our not very helpful Letting Agent

Last edited by mell242; 09-05-2008 at 3:20 PM.
mell242 is offline
Report Post
# 4
ennnceee
Old 17-06-2008, 7:57 AM
MoneySaving Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4
Default

A variation on this theme.

We recently came to the end of a ten-year assured tenancy (not shorthold, obviously) agreement and as I understand it we are now automatically on a statutory periodic tenancy and, in this case, the landlord can only give us notice if we fall behind in the rent or contravene one of the terms of the original agreement.

Interested to see any comments.

Thanks

Ennnceee
Filiss
ennnceee is offline
Report Post
# 5
barnaby-bear
Old 17-06-2008, 8:57 AM
Fantastically Fervent MoneySaving Super Fan
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,038
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mell242 View Post
Yes, maybe I should have contacted them before but I didn't! I assumed that we weren't being kicked out as we hadn't had 2 months notice but I was expecting a new tenancy agreement.

I haven't rented for over 7 years as I sold my house last year to rent so this is all a bit new to me and I'm having to remember back to my student days!

Thanks for your comments anyway I will attempt to talk to our not very helpful Letting Agent
If you do ask for a longer fixed term AST bear in mind the contract only between you and the LL - if there's a mortgage and it's not a proper BTL one where they've been informed there are tenants and the LL stops paying it and they repossess then you can be evicted immediately - chose thine LL and their business model carefully.... as I suspect we'll see more of this.
Most LLs will agree to longer fixed terms if they intend to stay in the business long term... if they insist on statutory periodic then they either don't want to pay agent fees to set up new contract (i.e. if you want you could offer to pay them probably 200 pounds rip off fees) or want the flexibility to sell when they want.
barnaby-bear is offline
Report Post
The Following User Says Thank You to barnaby-bear For This Useful Post: Show me >>
# 6
scrummy mummy
Old 17-06-2008, 10:24 AM
MoneySaving Stalwart
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 386
Default

Once a fixed term agreement (AST) ends, if it is not renewed to another fixed period, it will automatically lapse into a periodic agreement where the main terms of the original tenancy still apply. It is a continuation of the original agreement.
It is unusual for agents to allow this to happen because they don't get any 'renewal fees' from it.....if you want another fixed term, you should ask them for one, but be prepared to pay aforementioned fees, which could be £100's and a possible re-credit check. However, they're not legally obliged to offer you another fixed term.

On this issue of the certificate for your deposit, the deposit will remain protected for as long as THIS tenancy is valid (either fixed OR periodic) and you do not need another certificate just because your fixed term agreement has concluded.
With my scheme (Mydeposits) , I would have to pay to unprotect and then reprotect the deposit if a new fixed term agreement is issued (as it is a new contract!) so I advise my tenants to lapse into a periodic agreement to keep their outgoings down, but then I am a long term landlord and have no intention of getting any of them out!
The only thing to do with good advice is to pass it on. It is never of any use to oneself. (Oscar Wilde)
scrummy mummy is offline
Report Post
# 7
silvercar
Old 17-06-2008, 10:35 AM
Deliciously Dedicated Diehard MoneySaving Devotee
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: South Hertfordshire
Posts: 28,459
Default

I think we will find more and more that a happy tenant and landlord allow tenancies to become periodic to save hassle with renewal fees, repeat credit checking and deposit protecting.

All original terms of AST apply, except obviously the end date.

Rent can be increased by serving a section 13 notice.

Quote:
With my scheme (Mydeposits) , I would have to pay to unprotect and then reprotect the deposit if a new fixed term agreement is issued (as it is a new contract!) so I advise my tenants to lapse into a periodic agreement to keep their outgoings down,
I'm still not convinced of the legality of mydeposits insistence on unprotecting and protecting, particularly as you wouldn't do a checkout while tenant in place. I didn't know that you could insist that tenant pays for the protection.
silvercar is offline
Report Post
The Following User Says Thank You to silvercar For This Useful Post: Show me >>
# 8
tbs624
Old 17-06-2008, 1:32 PM
Deliciously Dedicated Diehard MoneySaving Devotee
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 10,628
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scrummy mummy View Post
...I would have to pay to unprotect and then reprotect the deposit if a new fixed term agreement is issued (as it is a new contract!) so I advise my tenants to lapse into a periodic agreement to keep their outgoings down, but then I am a long term landlord and have no intention of getting any of them out!
Quote:
Originally Posted by silvercar View Post
I think we will find more and more that a happy tenant and landlord allow tenancies to become periodic to save hassle with renewal fees, repeat credit checking and deposit protecting............. I didn't know that you could insist that tenant pays for the protection.
Interesting. I think that its one of those areas that unless LLs/LAs show some voluntary restraint, will become regulated by law in the same manner that LLs /LAs were prevented from charging prospective tenants a fee for being given a list of properties/put on an accommodation list.

Given that the cost of registering a deposit is tax deductible, and it is possible to use the DPS free scheme IMO it seems a bit dry to pass the cost of registering the deposit onto a tenant, especially if they are “good” tenants.

In effect are you saying to a tenant “accept a periodic which gives you less security of tenure than a fixed term or pay extra for the privilege”? With TDSL this is a figure of £30 or £26 for NLA members and I guess that there will be a diversity of viewpoints: many LLs will alternatively cost the fees into their rental figures anyway. I suppose that where LLs/LAs charge an "admin fee" for printing off another TA for a new Fixed Term then it's maybe a case of "swings and roundabouts".

The fact that many tenants will end up going onto periodic tenancies because of the rules is perhaps another example of the ramifications of the whole scheme not being clearly thought through?
tbs624 is offline
Report Post
The Following User Says Thank You to tbs624 For This Useful Post: Show me >>
# 9
silvercar
Old 17-06-2008, 1:38 PM
Deliciously Dedicated Diehard MoneySaving Devotee
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: South Hertfordshire
Posts: 28,459
Default

Quote:
The fact that many tenants will end up going onto periodic tenancies because of the rules is perhaps another example of the ramifications of the whole scheme not being clearly thought through?
Agree.

Having valued your contributions on tenants rights etc, I would be interested in your opinion on the validity of mydeposits insisting that granting a new AST requires the deposit to be unprotected and protected again.
silvercar is offline
Report Post
# 10
izzybusy23
Old 17-06-2008, 2:33 PM
Serious MoneySaving Fan
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 952
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mell242 View Post
Hi,
My Assured Shorthold Tenancy ends next Friday after 6 months. I was a bit confused as to why we hadn't heard from the agents about renewing so I phoned them just now. They told me that it 'rolls on' and I've checked the original agreement which states that it continues as a Statutory Periodic Tenancy.:confused:

I have never come across this before as I've always signed another 6 month or yearly contract when the last one ends with other agents/landlords.

I just wanted some advice really. I am pregnant, the baby is due in October and I was hoping for some kind of stability for a year at least. Now I'm worried that we can be given just 2 months notice to leave when I could be about to give birth! Do you think I should let the agents know my worries and if possible, try to gauge how long the landlord wishes to keep renting the property?

I've always felt secure renting in the past knowing I had 6 months at least before I might have to find somewhere else. The agent did say on the phone that they assume that all properties are long term lets but I'm in a bit of a panic now.

Does this mean that we will not sign another agreement?
We also have a certificate for our deposit protection which expires next week (when the tenancy does). Should we get a new one?

Any thoughts/experiences would be appreciated :rolleyes:
Hi there

This is quite common.. at the end of our six month tenancy it was due to roll over to periodic, but as I wanted some stability they done us a 12 month contract. We were lucky as we didn't have to pay an administration fee, you normally do.

I would approach your letting agent and ask them if you could go back on a contract, 6 or 12 months as you need that security. I am sure that would not be a problem... only if you decide a couple months into the fixed term your house is too small (like we did) and are tied in until the end. This time around we are going to go on periodic tenancy so we can just give a months notice if we see a bigger house we like.

Good luck!
izzybusy23 is offline
Report Post
# 11
tbs624
Old 17-06-2008, 3:32 PM
Deliciously Dedicated Diehard MoneySaving Devotee
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 10,628
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ennnceee View Post
A variation on this theme.

We recently came to the end of a ten-year assured tenancy (not shorthold, obviously) agreement and as I understand it we are now automatically on a statutory periodic tenancy and, in this case, the landlord can only give us notice if we fall behind in the rent or contravene one of the terms of the original agreement.

Interested to see any comments.

Thanks

Ennnceee
Assured tenants have fairly strong rights and need to safeguard them so its especially important that if you are on/have been on an Assured Tenancy Agreement and you have any doubts about your security of tenure you should always seek professional legal advice from a Law Centre or a solicitor with specific Assured Tenancy expertise, or guidance from the council’s private sector team (Tenancy Relations Officer) .

At the end of a Fixed Term the landlord does not have an automatic right to regain possession and if s/he does nothing, the tenancy will become Periodic , ie. automatically run from one rent period to the next on the same terms as the original fixed term Assured Tenancy. It will continue to run on this basis until you leave, the landlord replaces the Tenancy Agmt, or gives notice using valid grounds for seeking possession of the property. AFAIAA if the Assured Tenancy started on or after 28 Feb 1997 any replacement tenancy would automatically be on Assured terms -whatever it says in the Tenancy Agmt-unless you agree (on a particular form) to it being replaced by an AST. Such tenants should always seek appropriate advice before agreeing to an AST.
tbs624 is offline
Report Post
The Following User Says Thank You to tbs624 For This Useful Post: Show me >>
# 12
tbs624
Old 17-06-2008, 3:41 PM
Deliciously Dedicated Diehard MoneySaving Devotee
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 10,628
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by silvercar View Post
....... I would be interested in your opinion on the validity of mydeposits insisting that granting a new AST requires the deposit to be unprotected and protected again.
It seems totally against the spirit of the law to me and one of the areas of muddled thinking. To me if the LL remains the same, the Tenants remain the same and there is simply a new fixed term coming into play there should be no fee payable, just consent from both sides for the deposit to remain registered with the scheme.

There also seem to be cases where a LL retains a deposit from a tenancy that originated pre-6 april 2007, both sign a new agreement after that date and yet some argue that the deposit should not then be registered as being part of a new TA because the LL already holds it. So that one's not a new tenancy for the purposes of the legislation, so no fee (and definitely little protection for the Tenant) and yet the example above is and accordingly attracts extra fees, penalising the LL for complying and/or the |Tenant, where the fee is passed on to them?:confused:

IMO both T and LLs (both as individuals and, where appropriate, members of LL Associations) should be pushing hard for an early clarification/improvement of the wording of the legislation.

Last edited by tbs624; 17-06-2008 at 3:44 PM.
tbs624 is offline
Report Post
The Following User Says Thank You to tbs624 For This Useful Post: Show me >>
# 13
silvercar
Old 17-06-2008, 9:16 PM
Deliciously Dedicated Diehard MoneySaving Devotee
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: South Hertfordshire
Posts: 28,459
Default

Quote:
There also seem to be cases where a LL retains a deposit from a tenancy that originated pre-6 april 2007, both sign a new agreement after that date and yet some argue that the deposit should not then be registered as being part of a new TA because the LL already holds it.
I did this, as its the law. I am not prepared to pay again to protect and unprotect. Tenant can't afford to pay, is struggling to meet current rent. I'm not prepared to pay out again, so have told tenant the AST will become periodic. Unhappy tenant who wanted the security of 12 month ASTs to coincide with school years. Don't intend to evict (unless rent becomes an issue) but tenant wanted security of 12 mths AST.
silvercar is offline
Report Post
Closed Thread

Bookmarks
 
 




Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

 Forum Jump  

Contact Us - MoneySavingExpert.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All times are GMT. The time now is 9:38 AM.

 Forum Jump  

Free MoneySaving Email

Top deals: Week of 29 October 2014

Get all this & more in MoneySavingExpert's weekly email full of guides, vouchers and Deals

GET THIS FREE WEEKLY EMAIL Full of deals, guides & it's spam free

Latest News & Blogs

Martin's Twitter Feed

profile

Cheap Travel Money

Find the best online rate for holiday cash with MSE's TravelMoneyMax.

Find the best online rate for your holiday cash with MoneySavingExpert's TravelMoneyMax.

TuneChecker Top Albums

  • VARIOUS ARTISTSBBC RADIO 1'S LIVE LOUNGE 2014
  • TAYLOR SWIFT1989 (DELUXE)
  • ED SHEERANX (DELUXE EDITION)

MSE's Twitter Feed

profile
Always remember anyone can post on the MSE forums, so it can be very different from our opinion.
We use Skimlinks and other affiliated links in some of our boards, for some of our users.