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  • FIRST POST
    Millionaire
    Sellers Got a Unilateral Notice on Property!
    • #1
    • 28th Nov 07, 10:26 AM
    Sellers Got a Unilateral Notice on Property! 28th Nov 07 at 10:26 AM
    I cannot believe it!

    Was hoping to complete before Christmas, after this house purchase has been on or off 2 or 3 times due to various reasons over the past 3 months.

    First the price valuation, then with the survey which put a retention on the mortgage unless it was fixed, now this!

    Thought, finally should be moving in soon, got everything in place on my side, ready to pay the deposit to Solicitor, just one search remaining.

    Then..

    Got a phone call this morning from solicitor saying there's good news and bads new!

    Good News is the Search has come back, the bad, which is worse, is they have a unilateral notice on the property which has been applied in the last month.:confused:

    What can this mean to my house purchase?
Page 1
  • Evee2000
    • #2
    • 28th Nov 07, 10:40 AM
    • #2
    • 28th Nov 07, 10:40 AM
    Found this link - see a few paragraphs down

    http://www.anthonygold.co.uk/page.cfm/link=199
  • Millionaire
    • #3
    • 28th Nov 07, 10:51 AM
    • #3
    • 28th Nov 07, 10:51 AM
    Thanks Evee,

    Is there anywhere i can find who has issued the notice and what amounts its for?

    Would it appear on the Title deeds if I did a search on the land registry online?

    The other thing I was worried about is if this hadn't been identified by my solicitor would the debt or order be transferred to the new owner, in this case me?
  • silvercar
    • #4
    • 28th Nov 07, 11:06 AM
    • #4
    • 28th Nov 07, 11:06 AM
    The other thing I was worried about is if this hadn't been identified by my solicitor would the debt or order be transferred to the new owner, in this case me?
    Don't worry it would be identified, as it was in this case.

    That is why solicitor handle house purchases.

    I would guess its a delay rather than a deal stopper. Your solicitor should be able to advise further.

    We had a similar problem and it delayed exchange by a couple of days and didn't affect completion.

    I would guess (only guessing) that someone is owed money by the seller and has heard that the house is being sold, so he is slapping this notice on the property to make sure he gets his money. If this is the case then, providing there is sufficient equity in the property, it should all go smoothly.
  • Debt_Free_Chick
    • #5
    • 28th Nov 07, 12:10 PM
    • #5
    • 28th Nov 07, 12:10 PM
    To add to Silvercar's comments

    Thanks Evee,

    Is there anywhere i can find who has issued the notice and what amounts its for?

    Would it appear on the Title deeds if I did a search on the land registry online?
    Originally posted by Millionaire
    Probably - it's almost certainly how your solicitor found it as one of the first searches they do is the Land Registry

    The other thing I was worried about is if this hadn't been identified by my solicitor would the debt or order be transferred to the new owner, in this case me?
    No - debts cannot be transferred from one person to another, otherwise I'd transfer mine to you

    I don't think that this Notice is necessarily a debt. It registers an interest in the property. This could happen if a man (just for example!!!) owns the title to the property and his wife is not named as joint owner. They decide to separate or even divorce. Wife would register that she had an interest in the property i.e. that she was a joint owner of at least a share of it. This might prevent man from selling the property without some formal, legal arrangement to document her share and give her part of the proceeds.

    On the face of it, a Notice is not anything to be concerned about as it's something that your solicitor will deal with. The problems occur when the interested party does not agree to the sale. In my example, because wife & children want to remain the property. But this is only speculation - you need to let your solicitor establish what the position is.

    My only concern is whether the Official Receiver would register an interest in a property, in this way, where the owner was bankrupt .... or whether the OR uses another process :confused:

    Let your solicitor advise you.
  • Millionaire
    • #6
    • 28th Nov 07, 12:13 PM
    • #6
    • 28th Nov 07, 12:13 PM
    Thanks Silvercar,

    Its good to here that your overcame it when it came to your purchase.

    Fingers crossed that its something minor over here and it does not effect completion. Just hope its sorted out quickly.

    Doesn't help that I'm currently renting and the landlords given notice when I would not sign a new contract.
  • Millionaire
    • #7
    • 28th Nov 07, 12:22 PM
    • #7
    • 28th Nov 07, 12:22 PM



    No - debts cannot be transferred from one person to another, otherwise I'd transfer mine to you
    Originally posted by Debt_Free_Chick
    Phew! I couldn't handle that much debt

    I was just thinking along the lines of Car HP etc. Come to think of it i know nothing about Car HP.
    :rolleyes:


    Let your solicitor advise you.
    Originally posted by Debt_Free_Chick
    Yep, gonna give him a ring and try to squeeze more info out of him.

    The most annoying thing about the whole thing is i wanted to start the new year in my newly decorated new home and be done with renting.
  • silvercar
    • #8
    • 28th Nov 07, 6:15 PM
    • #8
    • 28th Nov 07, 6:15 PM
    My only concern is whether the Official Receiver would register an interest in a property, in this way, where the owner was bankrupt .... or whether the OR uses another process
    The OR would register his beneficial interest in the property in this way. Provided that the buyer is not related to the seller and is buying the property at market value (rather than a sell-me-quick discounted price), the OR should let the sale proceed. Sorting the paperwork on this would take a few days but the OR, acting in the creditors interest, should be delighted that the sale will happen speedily and at market value.
  • Millionaire
    • #9
    • 28th Nov 07, 6:52 PM
    • #9
    • 28th Nov 07, 6:52 PM
    Just to update.

    Rang the Vendor (private seller). Told them about being the solicitor advising me that there is a notice on the title deeds.

    Advised me they just found out recently as well?:confused: Apparently its something from a while back and they are trying to get it sorted out

    Vendor was abit cagey on more details on what actually is the problem and who it is or how much, which i suppose its up to them.

    It would be nice to know exactly were i stand but they told me they can't tell me exactly how long its gonna take to sort out

    So i took it upon myself to dig a bit deeper and its seems its a notice placed on the 16th October 2007 for a company called First Credit? anyone any ideas?
    Last edited by Millionaire; 28-11-2007 at 6:55 PM.
  • silvercar
    Hmm, something from a while back thats only just emerged onto the deeds.

    I'm standing by my original guess:

    I would guess (only guessing) that someone is owed money by the seller and has heard that the house is being sold, so he is slapping this notice on the property to make sure he gets his money.
    It would be nice to know exactly were i stand but they told me they can't tell me exactly how long its gonna take to sort out
    So they are going to offer something to make this go away - maybe some negotiation required.
  • Millionaire
    Hmm, something from a while back thats only just emerged onto the deeds.

    I'm standing by my original guess:
    Originally posted by silvercar
    Yes, i think you may be right

    So they are going to offer something to make this go away - maybe some negotiation required.
    Originally posted by silvercar
    You know what, for some reason that didn't cross my mind on this occasion.

    I've already got them to drop the price 13,000 from original price agreed, which in total is 16,000 under what they originally wanted due to a valuation report and also made them do around 1500 repairs to the house structurally.

    Don't know if i could knock it down further. But if they don't get this sorted soon i might have to reconsider my position.
  • Debt_Free_Chick
    Interesting ..... if First Credit had given a secured loan, then they would have registered a charge.

    If it were an unsecured loan, then they might still have registered a charge, but only if they had followed the correct process (get a CCJ, with payment forthwith, debtore defaults, go back to Court .... etc etc).

    In short - debts secured against a property are usually registered as a charge, rather than an interest. Still - First Credit are renowned for making a complete hash of things. In particular, they tend to attach debts to the wrong people, so this might be nothing at all to do with your sellers.

    There's a thread about FC somewhere ... I'll dig it out.
  • Debt_Free_Chick
    Here you go thread about First Credit

    If were not true and/or didn't involve real people, it would be hilarious .... as they blunder around ignoring people's rights.

    You might need to be a little patient as your sellers may genuinely have no debt at all with FC. You could perhaps mention that you've heard of other people have debts attached to them, by FC, which were not theirs ..... and see what they say ....? :confused:

    I have to admit, I would want to be looking them in the eye if I had that conversation ... cos if they squirmed ...... I wouldn't bet on getting that property

    Sorry, sorry ... not trying to scare you ... but you need to find out what the situation is and then decide what to do.
  • Millionaire
    Here you go thread about First Credit

    If were not true and/or didn't involve real people, it would be hilarious .... as they blunder around ignoring people's rights.
    Originally posted by Debt_Free_Chick
    Thats shocking tactics, and yes that is the company, as I managed to pick up the details of the land registry online and they gave that address.

    Thanks for the info. I might have a word with the vendor face to face to see is they squirm

    Reading that I wonder if its a statatue barred debt.
  • Millionaire
    UPDATE:

    Well I am absolutely livid!

    Spoke to the solicitor again and he was not happy at all after speaking to the sellers solicitor to get more info.

    The Seller has 2 charges on the property on top of the Mortgage charge.

    These 3 in total are for MORE than the value of the property thus resulting in the seller being in negative equity!

    What I am really annoyed about and the solicitor pointed out is they must of knew about this from the start but have been lying about it and leading us on.

    Thus the seller has been lying about all sorts of things including selling up to buy a property abroad, and telling me that they do not have a mortgage on this property to name a few.

    It seems the only option the seller has is to either get the companies with the charges on the property to agree to the price i will be paying and take a lesser amount than what they owe or if they don't agree the seller will have to go bankrupt!

    Since its cost me almost £2000 in Searches,Survey,Mortgage and Solicitor fees, does any one know of a way I can salvage the purchase??
    Last edited by Millionaire; 30-11-2007 at 3:54 PM.
  • kunekune
    Did the seller's solicitor know? Did they act in such a way as to encourage your solicitor to continue with the transaction?
    Mortgage started on 22.5.09 : 129,600
    Overpayments to date: 3000
    June grocery challenge: 400/600
  • silvercar
    It seems the only option the seller has is to either get the companies with the charges on the property to agree to the price i will be paying and take a lesser amount than what they owe or if they don't agree the seller will have to go bankrupt!
    Whether the companies agree depends on the extent of the difference and if the seller can show they have no money elsewhere.

    The seller may be able to persuade the companies to transfer some of the debt to an unsecured loan to allow the sale to take place. Or they could arrange an unsecured loan elsewhere to supplement the sale price.

    Bankruptcy doesn't come into it. Either the negotiations work and the sale proceeds or the sale is blocked because the lenders won't all agree to take a lower amount.
  • Millionaire
    Did the seller's solicitor know? Did they act in such a way as to encourage your solicitor to continue with the transaction?
    Originally posted by kunekune
    I assume they were not aware as well until the land registry search came back, i wouldn't know when they would have received this.

    Bankruptcy doesn't come into it. Either the negotiations work and the sale proceeds or the sale is blocked because the lenders won't all agree to take a lower amount.
    I think bankruptcy does come into into silver. I'll explain,

    I was so furious I rang up demanding answers as they have been trying to step around giving me honest answers.

    The seller advised that they have tried negotiating with the 2 companies but they wont have any of it and that she has tried debt management before and it went wrong and an IVA was rejected due to her not being able to afford repayments due to income and outgoings. all discussed with a solicitor.

    I think they are also defaulting on the mortgage and decided they will move in with the mother in laws and live there.

    Thus either the companies accept the amount or they are going for the bankruptcy route. and it seems that they have planned this way from the start.

    They must of thought dangling a carrot in front of the debt companies with a offer would clear all their debt and some written off without the need of going bankrupt. Obviously it looks upto now the companies are not taking the bait and me and my money seem to be the bait.

    I just can't believe the amount of bull***t I was feed during this from the seller.
    Last edited by Millionaire; 30-11-2007 at 7:23 PM.
  • Debt_Free_Chick
    If they do go bankrupt .... you've already done some of the groundwork, to purchase the property from the OR. Or the lender, if they repossess.

    Unfortunately, this would have to happen soon - as searches, surveys etc have a limited "shelf life". Unless you were very sure and confident about not getting/paying for updated ones.

    You've been stung and I'm sorry about that. I don't think your sellers intended for you to suffer. I would guess that they hoped the sale would go through so you'd be happy (get the house you want) and they'd be "happy" (get their debts paid off).

    Like so many in the deep smelly, doggy-doo of unmanageable debt, they have not understood the ramifications of secured loans. They can't have done .... otherwise they wouldn't have accepted your offer, which was not enough to pay off all the secured debt.

    Can you avoid this in the future? Possibly ... at the very least, pay £3 to get the title from the Land Registry. Take the price you offer, less all the charges and you can see if your offer will clear all the secured debt. I'm sorry - it sounds as though I'm telling you that you should have done this .... I hadn't thought about it myself, until I started to type this and I would have been where you are, had it been me.

    $h!tty .... I am sorry. I do feel a little for the seller too .. .they must be very, very desperate to have covered their tracks in the way that they did. They are now truly up $h!t creek ... but then you've suffered too.

    I'm depressed now
  • Debt_Free_Chick
    Did the seller's solicitor know? Did they act in such a way as to encourage your solicitor to continue with the transaction?
    Originally posted by kunekune
    A friend of mine is a solicitor (NOT conveyancing - Corporate Law). She tells me that the first thing they teach in law school is that "Your clients never tell you everything"

    I can't help thinking that there might be some (a lot?) of truth in that - so I would guess that the seller's solicitor didn't know.
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