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Building up joists to lay down loft boarding
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# 1
MoreAnt
Old 02-11-2007, 5:38 PM
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Default Building up joists to lay down loft boarding

I've just had my loft re-insulated. I unscrewed all the boarding I had up there and emptied the loft, they came along and laid down the insulation (one layer in between the joists and then another layer perpendicular to that). I want to put the boarding back down now but the insulation is too high.

So... the way I see it I have 4 options
1. Strip the insulation down to just one layer for the area I want to board and then board it as it was before, traight on to the joists
- The previously boarded area was large though (approx half the entire loft area) and I'd rather keep the same area
2. Increase the height of the joists to just above the insulation
a) by screwing new joists/beams into the sides of the existing joists
- will this work (an image of what I mean is here)
b) by laying new joists/beams down perpendicular to the existing joists
- seems like a lot of wood would be needed (and hence a lot of cost)
3. Change the insulation under the bit I want to board with thinner insulation.
- too expensive

Can anyone help with some advice? What's usually done in this situation?
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# 2
SPANIEL36
Old 02-11-2007, 5:48 PM
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i think what your trying to achieve is what i've already got done. what i ended up doing was increasing the height of the joists by screwing more timber onto the top or the sides of the existing joists (i cant remember which one) then screwing the boards down onto of them. there was a lot of screwing involved (my other half has just piped up with a cheeky grin the dirty minded so n so)

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# 3
harryharp
Old 09-01-2008, 7:50 AM
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We are having our loft insulated in a couple of weeks time and are going to be faced with the same problem if we want to continue using the loft for storage.

The company that's doing the work also said that we'd need to raise the height of the joists. Does anyone know if this is a DIY job (if so, how diffficult is it and how much does it cost?) Or does it have to be done by a builder?
Harpists do it in a heavenly way.....
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# 4
Canucklehead
Old 09-01-2008, 8:55 AM
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Hi
This is just one thread, on the subject, out of a few http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...nsulating+loft

Note the link in post 3 ,there are other versions of this Wickes being one.

Corgi Guy.
Ask to see CIPHE (Chartered Institute of Plumbing & Heating Engineering)
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# 5
harryharp
Old 09-01-2008, 9:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canucklehead View Post
Hi
This is just one thread, on the subject, out of a few http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...nsulating+loft

Note the link in post 3 ,there are other versions of this Wickes being one.

Corgi Guy.
Many thanks Canucklehead. Should we be raising the joists BEFORE we get the insulation done then? Also the link in post 3 says 'Page not found'- any chance of another link- cheers.
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# 6
Canucklehead
Old 09-01-2008, 9:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harryharp View Post
Many thanks Canucklehead. Should we be raising the joists BEFORE we get the insulation done then? Also the link in post 3 says 'Page not found'- any chance of another link- cheers.
Yes. Updated link here... http://www.knaufinsulation.co.uk/pro..._supadeck.aspx

HTH

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# 7
isofa
Old 09-01-2008, 9:50 AM
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You can also buy insulating boarding, which might be worth a look, B+Q does it: Knauf Space Board Loft Board Insulation (T)52.5mm but it's quite expensive.

I've boarded nearly all of the loft, but not increased the insulation, but instead I've carpeted most of it with carpet we replaced from rooms in the house, so although probably not as good as thick new insulation, the boarding and carpet (plus all the stored boxes!) must have added some further insulation, and a massive storage area to boot.

Don't squash down insulation to fit boards, you just reduce it's heat trapping effect, also don't put any insulation under the water tanks, unless you want them to freeze in the winter!

It's probably easier to raise the joists now, although I imagine cross beams would be a better idea, as it'll distribute weight better, as the roof joists aren't as strong as those on the living areas of a house.
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# 8
Poppycat
Old 09-01-2008, 11:22 AM
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We had our loft done in Summer on a grant I spoke to Energy trust regarding this matter and they told me to raise the height of the joists and it should be fine. However the company who laid the insulation refused to lay all the insulation between the joists they lay some of it the other way too, they said that that is the only way they were allowed to do it, so there was little point in increasing the height of the joists

Also bare in mind by increasing the height of the joists and laying boards with increase weight, some modern lofts apparently need structural alterations to take the weight.

That knaufinsulation superdeck is very expensive by the way

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# 9
harryharp
Old 09-01-2008, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poppycat View Post
We had our loft done in Summer on a grant I spoke to Energy trust regarding this matter and they told me to raise the height of the joists and it should be fine. However the company who laid the insulation refused to lay all the insulation between the joists they lay some of it the other way too, they said that that is the only way they were allowed to do it, so there was little point in increasing the height of the joists

Also bare in mind by increasing the height of the joists and laying boards with increase weight, some modern lofts apparently need structural alterations to take the weight.

That knaufinsulation superdeck is very expensive by the way
So what you're saying is if you get loft insulation done (with the usual type of insulation), you can't use the loft for storage. From what you've said I assume you don't use your loft for storage?

We're getting ours done with a grant too. I'm not sure what to do, as we have a lot of boxes up there.
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# 10
Poppycat
Old 09-01-2008, 11:36 AM
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Yes that is what I got told by the insulation company apparently its all down to the DTi who pay for the grant work. Yet the government quango Energy saving trust said it was okay to increase height of the joists it shouldn't be a problem.

You could of course undo the work and increase the joists

I do use the loft for storage this week only for Christmas tree/decorations but I wanted the loft boarded up to have more storage

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# 11
isofa
Old 10-01-2008, 8:31 AM
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You do have to be careful about adding too much weight to the loft floor, but increasing the joists won't add that much, it's the heavy chipboard boarding that has more of an impact, but if you use larger sheets the weight is well distributed. Always screw the boards down, to avoid nasty accidents. We store masses in our loft and couldn't manage without it.

However it's also worth noting how the area storing the water tanks is reinforced with heavy wooden cross beams, nothing you are going to store in the loft is going to be as heavy as a full water tank!

If you are going to store heavy things up there, make sure you put them above the walls below, rather than in the middle of ceilings, and spread things out!

Last edited by isofa; 10-01-2008 at 9:30 AM. Reason: typo!
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# 12
burnsguitarman
Old 10-01-2008, 6:51 PM
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My oh bought lengths of 3x2 timber (I think,) and had them cut into 6" pieces, These were then 'glued' (using hard as nails or similar) to the existing joists at regular intervals, it was very, very time consuming, but he was then able to lay loft boards on top of these and screw them down.
The floor is very sturdy, the only problem was around the loft hatch, which had to be left at the original level and the insulation 'squashed'. (this is because we have a hip roof and the head height isn't very high where we enter the loft. Hope you can make sense of this because it was definately worthwhile.
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# 13
harryharp
Old 10-01-2008, 6:59 PM
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We're having our loft done in a couple of week's time, and the guy who's doing it suggested screwing cross battens at right angles to the joists, to raise it to the required 10 ins. Then when he comes to do the loft, he will insulate between the joists, sliding it underneath the cross-battens, then put the remaining insulation at right angles between the battens. Then we can board on top of that.

Does that sound reasonable? Any thoughts appreciated!
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# 14
isofa
Old 10-01-2008, 7:48 PM
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I'd say that was very good way of doing it harryharp It might be quicker doing it with him, first lay it out all in the standard joists, then screw battens at right angles, and let him finish the insulation, if you are happy working with him. Be careful of cables.
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# 15
harryharp
Old 10-01-2008, 7:56 PM
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Thanks isofa. But I don't think he'll want to wait around while my husband screws in the battens- I suspect it's not a quick job? (He's going to come on a week-day while OH's at work anyway)
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# 16
madazan
Old 10-01-2008, 8:30 PM
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I was in the same boat. Had the loft insulation in between the joists and then running perpendicular on the joists. Had to take all the "stuff" out of the loft. What I did was use 4x2's screwed running across the existing joists in between the loft insulation thereby keeping the height. Then put the loft boards on top and screwed them into the new joists. It took two hours to do an 8' x 8' foot area and only cost 50 for the joists and loft boards.

You have to remember that you need to keep the height of the insulation to keep the heat.
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# 17
stephen v
Old 30-03-2008, 7:18 PM
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I've just Had my insullation done. I also want to have storage options. Problem is, I had 3inchs of insulation. The joists are only 3 inchs. I have now an extra 8 or so inchs of insullation!!!!!!! I've decided for now to roll some insullation up and srew loft boards down to original joists. The new insullation by the way is laid at right angles to old joists!! so make building up of joists difficult. I really can't build up the joists by 8inches!!! its just too much. I am considering getting some 2x4 but not sure how to attach it to old joists as surely I can't get a screw more than 4inch long????

why cant the industry realise we all use ur lofts and come up with a better solution. Why dont the insullation companies ask what u want to do with your loft before agreeing the grants schemes??
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# 18
harryharp
Old 30-03-2008, 9:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen v View Post
I've just Had my insullation done. I also want to have storage options. Problem is, I had 3inchs of insulation. The joists are only 3 inchs. I have now an extra 8 or so inchs of insullation!!!!!!! I've decided for now to roll some insullation up and srew loft boards down to original joists. The new insullation by the way is laid at right angles to old joists!! so make building up of joists difficult. I really can't build up the joists by 8inches!!! its just too much. I am considering getting some 2x4 but not sure how to attach it to old joists as surely I can't get a screw more than 4inch long????

why cant the industry realise we all use ur lofts and come up with a better solution. Why dont the insullation companies ask what u want to do with your loft before agreeing the grants schemes??
My husband did just this- ie. build the joists up to the required 10 inches by using cross battens (2X7 or 2X8 I think) screwed to the walls (not the joists) so that they are sort of suspended and not putting any weight on the joists. He then screwed noggins between the battens to make it more sturdy. He did all this BEFORE they came to lay the insulation, and they slid it all underneath the battens and between the joists. Then he laid loft boarding. It was all very time consuming and all the wood was expensive, but as you say, what use is a loft if you can't store things up there.
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# 19
baldelectrician
Old 31-03-2008, 1:59 AM
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I would like to make 2 points regarding insulation

1. Electric cables have to be de-rated by 50% when totally enclosed by insulation- a 6mm shower cable may supply a 9kw shower for a while, but cover it in insualtion and it could seriously overheat (should be 10mm anyway)

2. Joint boxes (usually for lights) are in lofts and NEED to be easy to get to. If you cover things up make sure you leave a screwed hatch.
baldly going on...
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