Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • worldtraveller
    • By worldtraveller 14th Feb 18, 6:31 AM
    • 11,550Posts
    • 22,600Thanks
    worldtraveller
    Tenants should have 'default right' to pets.......
    • #1
    • 14th Feb 18, 6:31 AM
    Tenants should have 'default right' to pets....... 14th Feb 18 at 6:31 AM
    ....according to Labour.

    Labour wants to strengthen the rights of tenants to keep a pet in their properties as part of a package of proposed animal welfare measures.

    Some rental agreements drawn up by landlords insist on no animals.

    Tenants can seek permission to keep pets but Labour wants a default right for them to do so unless there is evidence their pet will be a nuisance.

    BBC News
    There is a pleasure in the pathless woods, There is a rapture on the lonely shore, There is society, where none intrudes, By the deep sea, and music in its roar: I love not man the less, but Nature more...
Page 2
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 14th Feb 18, 10:43 AM
    • 2,422 Posts
    • 2,323 Thanks
    Comms69
    I've never understood why as a tenant someone would limit their choice and likelihood of gaining a nice rental in a sparse market by owning a pet. I mean I understand people love their animals, and many of us would love to own a pet.....but they are a luxury item, not an essential item. You do not need a pet. Just another thing that people see as their 'right' in the modern world. So yes, of course you can have a pet, but don't expect a landlord to want to let it wreck their house and investment and you should fully expect to be turned down for the better houses and have less choice than a non pet owner. This is none of the governments business.
    Originally posted by EmmyLou30
    Nor the LLS, unless the tenant doesn't clean and repair any damage.
    • Soundgirlrocks
    • By Soundgirlrocks 14th Feb 18, 10:47 AM
    • 455 Posts
    • 663 Thanks
    Soundgirlrocks
    I think its an interesting one, pet ownership in the UK is actually declining, and I wonder if there is a correlation with the number of people living in private rentals & an increase in number of flats where the lease bans all pets?

    As a London dog owner I'm aware of how many people would love to have a pet but can't (the amount of fuss my muttly gets on the tube is astounding) Humans have a symbolic relationship with dogs especially, dating back around 15,000 years. The health benefits of having an animal are huge and yet we are creating a world where it is harder and harder for people to have a pet so perhaps it does need some government intervention to recognise the importance having a pet can have on peoples well being.
    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 14th Feb 18, 11:23 AM
    • 936 Posts
    • 342 Thanks
    sevenhills
    That's exactly what I was thinking, certainly as a prerequisite anyway. Still not sure about the 'right' though.

    I don't have any personal experience of this issue, but my parents did many years ago. The tenant had a dog and left the flat in a disgusting state. The whole place needed "fumigation", deep cleaning, and the carpets had to be replaced.
    Originally posted by worldtraveller
    I have a dog, a border collie, I rented from the council, no problems.

    I can see that dogs and other pets can be essential to family life, and private renting is becoming more common, but we must think about the small landlord; where a big bill when the tenants leave is a nightmare.

    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 14th Feb 18, 11:24 AM
    • 2,422 Posts
    • 2,323 Thanks
    Comms69
    I have a dog, a border collie, I rented from the council, no problems.

    I can see that dogs and other pets can be essential to family life, and private renting is becoming more common, but we must think about the small landlord; where a big bill when the tenants leave is a nightmare.
    Originally posted by sevenhills
    Why? I don't consider mr Sainsbury's, so why should I consider mr jones?
    • Ozzuk
    • By Ozzuk 14th Feb 18, 11:35 AM
    • 1,215 Posts
    • 1,795 Thanks
    Ozzuk
    D- for your trolling effort. Besides even when people do buy their own homes that still doesn't mean to say they can do what they want. As pointed out above someone may buy the leasehold but the lease prohibits them from having pets or even if someone buys a freehold property there could be something in the deeds which prevents them from keeping pets in the property.
    Originally posted by Pixie5740
    I'm confused on the trolling comment, a little immature maybe.

    My point is put yourself in a position where if pets are your priority (which they are for me) then buy a property where you can achieve that - which of course would include making sure there are no restrictions on it.

    How is it fair that people who rent would now have to subsidise those wishing to have pets? It's like the BBC license...but don't get me started on that
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 14th Feb 18, 11:37 AM
    • 2,422 Posts
    • 2,323 Thanks
    Comms69
    I'm confused on the trolling comment, a little immature maybe.

    My point is put yourself in a position where if pets are your priority (which they are for me) then buy a property where you can achieve that - which of course would include making sure there are no restrictions on it.

    How is it fair that people who rent would now have to subsidise those wishing to have pets? It's like the BBC license...but don't get me started on that
    Originally posted by Ozzuk
    Why would they subsidise those people?
    • LilElvis
    • By LilElvis 14th Feb 18, 12:19 PM
    • 3,378 Posts
    • 9,294 Thanks
    LilElvis
    This topic is going to be discussed on Radio 5 this hour, with a member of the shadow cabinet contributing. Will also likely be available as part of the podcast later.
    • Mahsroh
    • By Mahsroh 14th Feb 18, 12:31 PM
    • 305 Posts
    • 266 Thanks
    Mahsroh
    I'm concerned by the vagueness of the description "pets" at the moment. A cat, dog, rabbit or hamster is one thing. What about these trendy pets like pigs and mini horses? I'm guessing landlords who have "No pets" clauses in their letting agreements have it there for a reason. I know I do.
    Originally posted by Cuilean
    My thought exactly.

    As a landlord, I always have the "No pets" clause in the agreement, but if i'm approached by a tenant asking to keep a pet at the property (as I have been) I wouldn't unreasonably object. My tenants who have left recently kept a small dog at the property, with my agreement.

    As a tenant, we have two cats, which has been agreed with the landlord. The agreement is very clear that it is for those two pets only, and any further plans we had to bring more pets into the home would require further consent, rather than a blanket "pets are allowed" clause. Seems more than reasonable.
    • Ozzuk
    • By Ozzuk 14th Feb 18, 12:34 PM
    • 1,215 Posts
    • 1,795 Thanks
    Ozzuk
    Why would they subsidise those people?
    Originally posted by Comms69
    As I said earlier, if policy dictates you must account for pets, then landlords will seek to mitigate that risk/cost - larger deposits/higher rent. All IMO of course.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 14th Feb 18, 12:37 PM
    • 2,422 Posts
    • 2,323 Thanks
    Comms69
    As I said earlier, if policy dictates you must account for pets, then landlords will seek to mitigate that risk/cost - larger deposits/higher rent. All IMO of course.
    Originally posted by Ozzuk


    Ah I see you're saying the LL would charge e.g. (+£50) on each property, to account for the 1 or 2 that might have a pet - assuming this is a portfolio holding LL ofcourse.


    That's possible. On the plus side, LLs can mitigate this by simply inspecting the property every 3-6 months and letting tenants know if repairs are required.
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 14th Feb 18, 12:40 PM
    • 11,707 Posts
    • 16,455 Thanks
    Pixie5740
    I'm confused on the trolling comment, a little immature maybe.
    Originally posted by Ozzuk
    In Internet slang, a troll is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting quarrels or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, and your comment about tenants working harder was inflammatory. Just because some is a tenant does not mean they don't work hard.

    Perhaps they should work harder, buy their own place then they can do what they want!
    Originally posted by Ozzuk



    How is it fair that people who rent would now have to subsidise those wishing to have pets? It's like the BBC license...but don't get me started on that
    Originally posted by Ozzuk
    • Ozzuk
    • By Ozzuk 14th Feb 18, 1:12 PM
    • 1,215 Posts
    • 1,795 Thanks
    Ozzuk
    In Internet slang, a troll is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting quarrels or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, and your comment about tenants working harder was inflammatory. Just because some is a tenant does not mean they don't work hard.







    Originally posted by Pixie5740
    I didn't say someone who is a tenant doesn't work hard, you've assumed I meant that and resorted to name calling to make a point. There are people who chose to rent, nothing wrong with that, who if labour got their way could see increase costs because of the few.

    Simply put, if you want to dictate your own living terms, then put yourself in a position to. Working harder/smart may be a flippant remark but it is one way, IMHO of course. And just for Pixie's benefit, renters: you can of course work hard and choose to rent, I'm not trying to arouse angry of violent feelings in you. Should you need my validation of course
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 14th Feb 18, 1:22 PM
    • 2,347 Posts
    • 6,476 Thanks
    Red-Squirrel
    we must think about the small landlord
    Originally posted by sevenhills
    I think anything that makes it less profitable and harder for them to be landlords so that they are more likely to give it up and get a proper job can only be a good thing!
    • Daydreambeliever
    • By Daydreambeliever 14th Feb 18, 1:30 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 42 Thanks
    Daydreambeliever
    It makes me ever so sad the negative view some landlords may hold on prospective tenants who have pets, although of course I do understand that some Landlords may have had bad experiences with tenants not being upfront and damage being done. I have been renting since my relationship broke down 13 years ago, unfortunately not in a position to buy. We had two cats and when we sold the house and the relationship ended they came with me, one cat is still with me to this day (now 15), my 18 year old died last month. Thankfully, the three properties I have rented in that time, the Landlords have had no problem with me having my cats, and I could never bear to be parted from them and if that restricts me on property going forward so be it. I would never dream of not being upfront with a Landlord and it is their choice and I respect that. I do work very hard Ozzuk and wish with all my heart I could buy a property but, unfortunately, as I am approaching 50 and not in a position to save the large deposit, I realise that won't happen. But I am a good tenant, work hard and keep my home tidy and would never want to rent a property which held such restrictions. Will be very pleased if this comes into force, although it has to work for both sides. It must be awful for people to have to give up their pets when their situation changes and they have to rent. Life can change in a second and people often end up renting through no other choice. I hope that Landlords can look at each situation and not completely discriminate against pet owners.
    • deannatrois
    • By deannatrois 14th Feb 18, 1:42 PM
    • 5,129 Posts
    • 7,198 Thanks
    deannatrois
    Not all tenants with pets leave a property damaged. Fortunately my ex found that while not a single LA would even take him as a prospective tenant, out of three properties he applied for through OpenRent he was offered two. Him having two dogs (he's a dog handler so essential to his employment at which he does very well so of good status) wasn't a problem. And it has a shower room I'd die for lol (fancy one) lol. So dealing direct with LL's can be an answer. The rent was reasonable too.

    If a LL has doubts as to this, they could always go to the property the prospective tenant is renting to see how they live. Minimising risk.
    Last edited by deannatrois; 14-02-2018 at 1:45 PM.
    • ellisbirt
    • By ellisbirt 14th Feb 18, 2:02 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    ellisbirt
    I am a landlord, of an apartment I previously lived in for 21 years.

    I work hard to maintain the apartment in a good standard with new carpets fitted a a year ago. Some small pets can have no detrimental effect on the property and I would not stand in the way of a tenant having them.

    Dogs and cats, however, can, in the hands of a less than conscientious owner, cause significant damage requiring deep cleaning or replacement and redecoration that would cost more than the security deposit. With a suitable deposit I would be willing to allow dogs or cats but With the one month rent cap on the value of security deposits announced in the Queen's Speech I am unlikely to agree.

    On a second note: many rented properties do not have a garden. Keeping a dog or cat in such is far from ideal because they do not have access to an outdoor space. Letting a cat roam across other peoples' gardens can lead to territorial issues and damage to those gardens.

    This needs to be seriously thought through because Tax and stamp duty changes have already resulted in a reduction in the number of landlords entering the buy-to-let sector. Increase the risk to landlords and many will pull-out leading to increases in rent for those remaining properties.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 14th Feb 18, 2:04 PM
    • 2,422 Posts
    • 2,323 Thanks
    Comms69
    I am a landlord, of an apartment I previously lived in for 21 years.

    I work hard to maintain the apartment in a good standard with new carpets fitted a a year ago. Some small pets can have no detrimental effect on the property and I would not stand in the way of a tenant having them.

    Dogs and cats, however, can, in the hands of a less than conscientious owner, cause significant damage requiring deep cleaning or replacement and redecoration that would cost more than the security deposit. With a suitable deposit I would be willing to allow dogs or cats but With the one month rent cap on the value of security deposits announced in the Queen's Speech I am unlikely to agree.

    On a second note: many rented properties do not have a garden. Keeping a dog or cat in such is far from ideal because they do not have access to an outdoor space. Letting a cat roam across other peoples' gardens can lead to territorial issues and damage to those gardens.

    This needs to be seriously thought through because Tax and stamp duty changes have already resulted in a reduction in the number of landlords entering the buy-to-let sector. Increase the risk to landlords and many will pull-out leading to increases in rent for those remaining properties.
    Originally posted by ellisbirt
    I mostly agreed with you except the last bit: there is no reason to believe this would happen, those properties would be either bought by other LLs or by tenants (thereby driving down demand)
    • EmmyLou30
    • By EmmyLou30 14th Feb 18, 2:05 PM
    • 377 Posts
    • 456 Thanks
    EmmyLou30
    It's always hard for tenant and LL to see it from the others side. As a LL you think well I have my pick of tenants so I'll go with the lower (perceived) risk option of no pets if I can. A tenant feels they are unfairly treated as they know their cat/dog is fine and doesn't claw the walls/carpets etc or have little accidents.

    As with most things the few spoil it for the many. So one bad story or experience with tenants and pets will stop a LL renting to others in the future.

    I bought a house that clearly locked the poor dog up in the kitchen all day (I saw no sign of dog anywhere else in the house). But the back door was clawed and frame chewed and wrecked, massive badly repaired hole in the wall from scratching, and the other internal door and frame destroyed by teeth marks and claws - so to me I wouldn't rent to a dog owner in case that's how they kept the dog. Once the tenant is in it's months of damage being done before you can evict and I get a hefty repair bill the deposit won't touch the sides of. But we've owned plenty of cats with no issue. So we allow our tenant to rent with their cat, but it was very much a case by case basis as we advertised as 'no pets'.
    • wantonnoodle
    • By wantonnoodle 14th Feb 18, 3:40 PM
    • 226 Posts
    • 152 Thanks
    wantonnoodle
    I can see both sides of the argument, and I am an animal lover, but don't have any pets at the moment.

    On a lighter note, if this comes in, I'll be looking for the popcorn, as I'm sure we'll see more classic posts like the Wolfdog one, http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5677235 and the dead dog in the bag for life, which will keep us all amused.
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 14th Feb 18, 4:18 PM
    • 9,340 Posts
    • 12,419 Thanks
    theartfullodger
    Woof woof!

    Think someone needs to think the detail through: One well-behaved stick-insect in a glass aquarium is fine, but 7 incontinent rottweillers with behavioral issues might be regarded as a nuisance by neighbours...

    Fraternally yours..
    Last edited by theartfullodger; 14-02-2018 at 4:21 PM.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

2,816Posts Today

7,091Users online

Martin's Twitter