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  • FIRST POST
    • Nesty
    • By Nesty 13th Feb 18, 4:47 PM
    • 394Posts
    • 78Thanks
    Nesty
    Item signed delivered, buyer saying not received
    • #1
    • 13th Feb 18, 4:47 PM
    Item signed delivered, buyer saying not received 13th Feb 18 at 4:47 PM
    On EBAY I am the seller on this occasion. I never had this before.
    After 8-9 days after the sale. A buyer has sent me a message saying he has not received the item.
    Item been tracked and signature from the property (although I have not seen the actual signed name yet on file).
    I have sent the buyer a copy of the tracking report. Looks all watertight. Gone to the correct confirmed paypal address and delivered in 2 working days.
    The courier company won't entertain no claim from me.
    Am I covered as a seller? I don't want to be neg'd.
    I am not sure what more I can do apart from get the name from the courier company?
Page 1
    • bris
    • By bris 13th Feb 18, 5:14 PM
    • 7,337 Posts
    • 6,339 Thanks
    bris
    • #2
    • 13th Feb 18, 5:14 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Feb 18, 5:14 PM
    You don't have to do anything, just take it as delivered and upload the proof if a claim is made.
    • Nesty
    • By Nesty 13th Feb 18, 5:18 PM
    • 394 Posts
    • 78 Thanks
    Nesty
    • #3
    • 13th Feb 18, 5:18 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Feb 18, 5:18 PM
    Thanks.
    Apparently it gone to a business next door. However the buyer citing he fallen out with the shop owner, who doesn't give him anything.
    I did list it as RM delivery, but used Hermes, as my local PO was closed. Does this make a difference?
    Last edited by Nesty; 13-02-2018 at 5:56 PM.
    • soolin
    • By soolin 13th Feb 18, 5:57 PM
    • 59,897 Posts
    • 42,524 Thanks
    soolin
    • #4
    • 13th Feb 18, 5:57 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Feb 18, 5:57 PM
    Thanks.
    Apparently it gone to a business next door. However the buyer citing he fallen out with the shop owner, who doesn't give him anything.
    I did list it as RM delivery, but used Hermes, as my local PO was closed. Does this make a difference?
    Originally posted by Nesty
    It shouldn't do for the purposes of any INR claim, but buyer can raise a complaint against you with ebay. Also I would strongly suggest that you try and assist the buyer with this especially as you changed the delivery method, which is really not a good thing to do. As you have been informed that buyer does not have item and cannot get it I think morally you need to be trying to sort this out even when you win an INR.

    Technically as well on the outside chance that buyer has set up one of those 'do not leave with neighbours' instructions which I see advertised all over my local mail centre then I suspect they could claim against you at small claims as changing the service used would make a big difference.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
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    • Nesty
    • By Nesty 13th Feb 18, 6:09 PM
    • 394 Posts
    • 78 Thanks
    Nesty
    • #5
    • 13th Feb 18, 6:09 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Feb 18, 6:09 PM
    To add fuel to the fire, the buyer has another order pending.
    Though, I explained to him even RM could of left it elsewhere ie next door? In this instance I don't think the courier is an issue, but merely his neighbour circumstances. Even with RM I can't control where it goes.
    The buyer has not stated this in his order and I do say if you have any other delivery requirements I must be informed.
    The business it sounds like has purposely withheld or destroyed the item? How can I as a seller foresee this issue?
    Last edited by Nesty; 13-02-2018 at 6:12 PM.
    • soolin
    • By soolin 13th Feb 18, 6:31 PM
    • 59,897 Posts
    • 42,524 Thanks
    soolin
    • #6
    • 13th Feb 18, 6:31 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Feb 18, 6:31 PM
    To add fuel to the fire, the buyer has another order pending.
    Though, I explained to him even RM could of left it elsewhere ie next door? In this instance I don't think the courier is an issue, but merely his neighbour circumstances. Even with RM I can't control where it goes.
    The buyer has not stated this in his order and I do say if you have any other delivery requirements I must be informed.
    The business it sounds like has purposely withheld or destroyed the item? How can I as a seller foresee this issue?
    Originally posted by Nesty
    As above With RM you can request items not be left with neighbours, I haven't read the poster but there's something up about it in my local mail centre.

    I think this is a tricky one so perhaps others might want to comment. However, personally if I had changed the delivery method I would feel obliged to help. Perhaps talk to the courier or even contact the shop to see if you can recover the parcel.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
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    • Nesty
    • By Nesty 13th Feb 18, 6:44 PM
    • 394 Posts
    • 78 Thanks
    Nesty
    • #7
    • 13th Feb 18, 6:44 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Feb 18, 6:44 PM
    The thing is on ebay if you mark hermes as delivery. The factored delivery times are not correct. States 5-7 days. My hermes stuff gets there far quicker than RM 2nd class and you have more detail as you delivery estimates. Ebay need to adjust this timing for Hermes as it is not correct.
    • soolin
    • By soolin 13th Feb 18, 7:00 PM
    • 59,897 Posts
    • 42,524 Thanks
    soolin
    • #8
    • 13th Feb 18, 7:00 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Feb 18, 7:00 PM
    The thing is on ebay if you mark hermes as delivery. The factored delivery times are not correct. States 5-7 days. My hermes stuff gets there far quicker than RM 2nd class and you have more detail as you delivery estimates. Ebay need to adjust this timing for Hermes as it is not correct.
    Originally posted by Nesty
    That's irrelevant , it is bad form to advertise one service and use another.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
    New to Forum? Guide
    • Nesty
    • By Nesty 13th Feb 18, 7:15 PM
    • 394 Posts
    • 78 Thanks
    Nesty
    • #9
    • 13th Feb 18, 7:15 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Feb 18, 7:15 PM
    I said to the buyer how could you stop RM delivering next door he said he hasn't worked out a way. So regardless if it was Hermes or RM. The same thing could of happened. The fact it has been delivered.
    The way the buyer has emailed I am not surprised there is civil dispute somewhere!
    • in_the_Cotswolds
    • By in_the_Cotswolds 13th Feb 18, 8:12 PM
    • 740 Posts
    • 354 Thanks
    in_the_Cotswolds
    Tell them to put a note on their door saying "do not leave at neighbours put card through door" and collect or have it redelivered when they are home.

    • societys child
    • By societys child 13th Feb 18, 8:21 PM
    • 5,054 Posts
    • 5,564 Thanks
    societys child
    @ Nesty, stop wriggling, you used a different delivery method. Sort it out or lose. You know who ebay will side with . . .

    • mrcol1000
    • By mrcol1000 13th Feb 18, 9:17 PM
    • 4,538 Posts
    • 3,916 Thanks
    mrcol1000
    I have had the exact same problem a few years ago. Sent a parcel by My Hermes. Delivered. Buyer claimed non delivery. Queried it with My Hermes. They said delivered to neighbour. Told this to buyer. Buyer said doesn't speak to neighbour and is no way going to go round and ask for it. Opened and lost INR claim. Left negative feedback which EBay removed as they were satisfied delivery had been made.

    Using a different delivery method is irrelevant to non delivery. If the buyer has such a big problem with their neighbour they should message with delivery instructions or put a sign on their door with someone they like to have parcels left with. I mean do they only buy from websites that use Royal Mail? Many websites don't tell you who they use or use many different ones.

    But really if there is such a problem then the neighbour shouldn't have taken it. If the neighbour won't give up the parcel then the buyer needs to involve the police. This isn't your problem. They could neg you for using a different postal service but I am sure there are far worse things happening in the world than that.
    • Marcon
    • By Marcon 13th Feb 18, 9:33 PM
    • 198 Posts
    • 116 Thanks
    Marcon
    But really if there is such a problem then the neighbour shouldn't have taken it. If the neighbour won't give up the parcel then the buyer needs to involve the police. .
    Originally posted by mrcol1000
    Involve the police? You think they have the resources to deal with a silly squabble like this?
    • adonis
    • By adonis 13th Feb 18, 10:52 PM
    • 764 Posts
    • 706 Thanks
    adonis
    Involve the police? You think they have the resources to deal with a silly squabble like this?
    Originally posted by Marcon
    What, like theft, I don't know the value of the item £5 or £50,000 but theft is theft and the police should deal with it.
    • Pun
    • By Pun 13th Feb 18, 11:09 PM
    • 638 Posts
    • 549 Thanks
    Pun
    What, like theft, I don't know the value of the item £5 or £50,000 but theft is theft and the police should deal with it.
    Originally posted by adonis
    Pop in to your local nick and see if they class it as a crime...
    • POPPYOSCAR
    • By POPPYOSCAR 13th Feb 18, 11:16 PM
    • 11,100 Posts
    • 23,193 Thanks
    POPPYOSCAR
    A question out of curiosity.

    If you send something to a specific address and it is not delivered to that address but like this has been delivered to a neighbour is that not a breach of contract?
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 14th Feb 18, 9:54 AM
    • 1,594 Posts
    • 7,840 Thanks
    NBLondon
    I was just thinking that... If the item has been delivered to an address OTHER than the one agreed to and on the eBay/Paypal files, then the item has not been correctly delivered so the buyer is entitled to claim INR and the tracking is not valid.
    But the OP says it was the correct address... possibly a flat above a shop causing confusion? If the ad said delivery by RM and the buyer already has "do not leave with neighbour" logged with RM they would expect to get a "While You Were Out" card. The OP chose to use a different courier (obviously not knowing there was an issue) who mis-delivered the item.
    So, I think the OP should be taking this up with the courier to reclaim the item and get it delivered correctly. If the courier cannot do this - then the courier should be refunding the OP and the OP refunding the buyer.
    Last edited by NBLondon; 14-02-2018 at 9:54 AM. Reason: tidy spacing
    Womble #7 - Running Total £2.07 $0.12 €1.67 S//0.10 (that's supposed to be 10 Ukrainian kopiyki but the site is refusing to display the symbol) Bds$0.10
    • custardy
    • By custardy 14th Feb 18, 11:02 AM
    • 32,989 Posts
    • 27,777 Thanks
    custardy
    I was just thinking that... If the item has been delivered to an address OTHER than the one agreed to and on the eBay/Paypal files, then the item has not been correctly delivered so the buyer is entitled to claim INR and the tracking is not valid.
    But the OP says it was the correct address... possibly a flat above a shop causing confusion? If the ad said delivery by RM and the buyer already has "do not leave with neighbour" logged with RM they would expect to get a "While You Were Out" card. The OP chose to use a different courier (obviously not knowing there was an issue) who mis-delivered the item.
    So, I think the OP should be taking this up with the courier to reclaim the item and get it delivered correctly. If the courier cannot do this - then the courier should be refunding the OP and the OP refunding the buyer.
    Originally posted by NBLondon

    This would all depend on the courier T&cs at time of order.
    If safeplace/leave with neighbour is in the T&Cs then they have fulfilled their contract.
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 14th Feb 18, 11:32 AM
    • 1,594 Posts
    • 7,840 Thanks
    NBLondon
    Yep - but that still makes it the OP's problem as well... they accepted those T&C (by default if not design) the buyer didn't.

    If the buyer has a known problem about "leave with neighbour", they could have informed the seller so that could be communicated to the chosen courier. (I have had problems in the past with couriers following satnavs and bad signage so I sometimes specify "House with red door - NOT flats") But if the buyer expected RM as in the advert, and have already notified RM they might not think to re-emphasise.

    Thought Experiment: The buyer is at 123A Any Street - a flat above a shop - and the shop is 123 Any Street Both will have the same postcode. If the correct eBay/PayPal address is 123A and the item has been delivered and tracked to 123 - the tracking should not be valid for seller protection. If the item is only tracked to the postcode... ???

    The problem seems to be that "Proof of Delivery" is not the same as "Proof of Delivery to the Buyer or their Household" and although there are plenty of dodgy buyers who might falsely claim non-receipt; genuine buyers should not be paying for an item which was not delivered to them or an alternative point they have agreed to.
    Womble #7 - Running Total £2.07 $0.12 €1.67 S//0.10 (that's supposed to be 10 Ukrainian kopiyki but the site is refusing to display the symbol) Bds$0.10
    • POPPYOSCAR
    • By POPPYOSCAR 14th Feb 18, 1:59 PM
    • 11,100 Posts
    • 23,193 Thanks
    POPPYOSCAR
    So in effect you take the risk that a parcel will not be delivered to the actual address and there would be nothing you could do about it if it shows as dellivered?
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