Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • MalonsMilk
    • By MalonsMilk 13th Feb 18, 3:06 PM
    • 2Posts
    • 1Thanks
    MalonsMilk
    Who's really at fault?
    • #1
    • 13th Feb 18, 3:06 PM
    Who's really at fault? 13th Feb 18 at 3:06 PM
    In December I had a car accident and the case is still rumbling on. My insurance company wants me to accept 50/50 responsibility but I don't think Im at fault.

    I was driving along a straight road and came upon a car travelling 30ph in a 40mph zone. It was clear to overtake so I signalled, checked my mirrors and began my manoeuvre when he just turned right. No indication and he wasn't turning into a road, looked like he was turning into someones drive.

    I have a witness who backs up my claim that it was a sudden about turn and when I talked to the person who owned the house that I got shoved into they confirmed that they had no idea who the man was. I believe now that he was travelling slowly as he wanted a place to turn round in, saw an open drive way and just did the manoeuvre without any due care or attention.

    I feel like Im going crazy as I feel that if I was on a dual carriageway and he veered in front of me, would he still be able to claim that I was partially responsible? I feel like I cant overtake anyone now out of fear that they nay just decide to turn in front of me and I get caught out again. Help!
Page 1
    • IanMSpencer
    • By IanMSpencer 13th Feb 18, 3:22 PM
    • 1,367 Posts
    • 1,027 Thanks
    IanMSpencer
    • #2
    • 13th Feb 18, 3:22 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Feb 18, 3:22 PM
    I think 50/50 is where it will rest as although you rightly feel aggrieved that he didn't signal, I'm guessing your description isn't quite right as I think it is unlikely that he was doing 30mph to turn into a drive, so I think the case rests on the car driving unusually slowly in a 40mph area.

    So let's look again. You are coming up behind a car moving slowly on a main road. The question then comes as to why? It sounds to me like the other driver was looking for a difficult to find driveway (perhaps a friend or relative and they were unfamiliar with the area) and saw it and turned. Not an unusual thing to do and people's driving standard often falls when they are struggling with navigation.

    They get blame for not checking mirrors and not signalling, you get blame for overtaking when it is not safe to do so. How did you work out that the car was travelling at a constant speed and unlikely to turn rather than moving slowly and about to manoeuvre?

    Also, it may depend on the nature of the road, in some environments, a 40mph road is still a residential road and overtaking would be seen as unwise - if you are driving on a road that has driveways and other entrances then they constitute opportunities for things to go wrong. I would say the correct way to have handled it would have been to draw up behind, establish what the driver was up to, perhaps a warning toot before overtaking if the driver was driving unreasonably slowly, effectively kerb crawling. If they were making progress but below the speed limit, then live with it until it is absolutely safe to do so.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 13th Feb 18, 3:24 PM
    • 2,353 Posts
    • 2,225 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #3
    • 13th Feb 18, 3:24 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Feb 18, 3:24 PM
    I think 50/50 is where it will rest as although you rightly feel aggrieved that he didn't signal, I'm guessing your description isn't quite right as I think it is unlikely that he was doing 30mph to turn into a drive, so I think the case rests on the car driving unusually slowly in a 40mph area.

    So let's look again. You are coming up behind a car moving slowly on a main road. The question then comes as to why? It sounds to me like the other driver was looking for a difficult to find driveway (perhaps a friend or relative and they were unfamiliar with the area) and saw it and turned. Not an unusual thing to do and people's driving standard often falls when they are struggling with navigation.

    They get blame for not checking mirrors and not signalling, you get blame for overtaking when it is not safe to do so. How did you work out that the car was travelling at a constant speed and unlikely to turn rather than moving slowly and about to manoeuvre?

    Also, it may depend on the nature of the road, in some environments, a 40mph road is still a residential road and overtaking would be seen as unwise - if you are driving on a road that has driveways and other entrances then they constitute opportunities for things to go wrong. I would say the correct way to have handled it would have been to draw up behind, establish what the driver was up to, perhaps a warning toot before overtaking if the driver was driving unreasonably slowly, effectively kerb crawling. If they were making progress but below the speed limit, then live with it until it is absolutely safe to do so.
    Originally posted by IanMSpencer
    This was my first reaction too.
    • MalonsMilk
    • By MalonsMilk 13th Feb 18, 3:34 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    MalonsMilk
    • #4
    • 13th Feb 18, 3:34 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Feb 18, 3:34 PM
    Thank you for your advice, I followed the car at 30mph for roughly about 12 seconds before deciding to overtake.I live in a very rural area and the place I was driving was in the middle of nowhere and not a residential area, the road is wide and straight and in good condition.

    It has really screwed with my head now as I'm now so wary of overtaking any slow moving vehicle for fear of them doing an about turn on me and due to the fact that my area is very popular with tractors, lorries and cyclists I feel unable to overtake any of them.

    Maybe people are telling me what I want to hear and reassuring me that it wasn't my fault, thanks for looking at it from a third party standard.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 13th Feb 18, 3:39 PM
    • 2,353 Posts
    • 2,225 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #5
    • 13th Feb 18, 3:39 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Feb 18, 3:39 PM
    Thank you for your advice, I followed the car at 30mph for roughly about 12 seconds before deciding to overtake.I live in a very rural area and the place I was driving was in the middle of nowhere and not a residential area, the road is wide and straight and in good condition.

    It has really screwed with my head now as I'm now so wary of overtaking any slow moving vehicle for fear of them doing an about turn on me and due to the fact that my area is very popular with tractors, lorries and cyclists I feel unable to overtake any of them.

    Maybe people are telling me what I want to hear and reassuring me that it wasn't my fault, thanks for looking at it from a third party standard.
    Originally posted by MalonsMilk


    It's difficult to say for sure.


    Look at it from the other driver, driving along, aware of a vehicle behind him, sees his turning and goes for it, only to be hit from the side.


    Yes he should've looked, and signalled. 50/50 doesn't make it your fault either don't forget - not in a 'your driving was poor' sense anyway.


    50/50 is just an accident.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 13th Feb 18, 3:56 PM
    • 10,520 Posts
    • 7,414 Thanks
    neilmcl
    • #6
    • 13th Feb 18, 3:56 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Feb 18, 3:56 PM
    In December I had a car accident and the case is still rumbling on. My insurance company wants me to accept 50/50 responsibility but I don't think Im at fault.

    I was driving along a straight road and came upon a car travelling 30ph in a 40mph zone. It was clear to overtake so I signalled, checked my mirrors and began my manoeuvre when he just turned right. No indication and he wasn't turning into a road, looked like he was turning into someones drive.

    I have a witness who backs up my claim that it was a sudden about turn and when I talked to the person who owned the house that I got shoved into they confirmed that they had no idea who the man was. I believe now that he was travelling slowly as he wanted a place to turn round in, saw an open drive way and just did the manoeuvre without any due care or attention.

    I feel like Im going crazy as I feel that if I was on a dual carriageway and he veered in front of me, would he still be able to claim that I was partially responsible? I feel like I cant overtake anyone now out of fear that they nay just decide to turn in front of me and I get caught out again. Help!
    Originally posted by MalonsMilk
    Nobody turns right into a drive from 30mph, not unless they were a stunt driver. Sounds to me they were already slowing down, before and during your overtake and your observations let you down, hence the 50/50.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 13th Feb 18, 3:57 PM
    • 2,632 Posts
    • 1,684 Thanks
    Car 54
    • #7
    • 13th Feb 18, 3:57 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Feb 18, 3:57 PM
    I was driving along a straight road and came upon a car travelling 30ph in a 40mph zone. It was clear to overtake so I signalled, checked my mirrors and began my manoeuvre when he just turned right. No indication and he wasn't turning into a road, looked like he was turning into someones drive.
    Originally posted by MalonsMilk
    I'm sure you mean you checked your mirrors before signalling, not after.

    By "signalling" I take it you mean your indicators. As you now know, these don't help if the driver in front doesn't use his mirrors. Using your horn would have made him aware (unless of course he was deaf).
    • IanMSpencer
    • By IanMSpencer 13th Feb 18, 4:07 PM
    • 1,367 Posts
    • 1,027 Thanks
    IanMSpencer
    • #8
    • 13th Feb 18, 4:07 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Feb 18, 4:07 PM
    Thank you for your advice, I followed the car at 30mph for roughly about 12 seconds before deciding to overtake.I live in a very rural area and the place I was driving was in the middle of nowhere and not a residential area, the road is wide and straight and in good condition.

    It has really screwed with my head now as I'm now so wary of overtaking any slow moving vehicle for fear of them doing an about turn on me and due to the fact that my area is very popular with tractors, lorries and cyclists I feel unable to overtake any of them.

    Maybe people are telling me what I want to hear and reassuring me that it wasn't my fault, thanks for looking at it from a third party standard.
    Originally posted by MalonsMilk
    On the Advanced Driving course, in rural driving they make a big thing of clues to spot entrances and I think their position would be that if there are signs of an entrance then it is not a safe place to overtake. People might view the IAM position as overly cautious, but their presumption is that in driving you assume everyone else is about to do something wrong.

    I would agree that it is a tough call to feel blamed for someone else's poor driving. It does sound like you took reasonable steps, but without independent witnesses it would be hard for insurers to tell the "he came from nowhere" from the "I followed him for a while" or even "I saw the car following behind who overtook without warning as I made my turn." Sometimes you have to accept that whatever you think happened, the insurers cannot be certain what really did happen (and the other driver may not be being dishonest in describing what they recall). As a cyclist, the one claim I believe when someone nearly drives into me at a junction is "Sorry, mate, I didn't see you". People are not good at observation.
    • sheslookinhot
    • By sheslookinhot 13th Feb 18, 6:59 PM
    • 1,107 Posts
    • 738 Thanks
    sheslookinhot
    • #9
    • 13th Feb 18, 6:59 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Feb 18, 6:59 PM
    The insurance co will have you guilty if you hit someone from the rear.
    Mortgage Free
    Planning for Retirement
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 13th Feb 18, 7:35 PM
    • 16,370 Posts
    • 14,664 Thanks
    AdrianC
    ...the place I was driving was in the middle of nowhere and not a residential area...
    Originally posted by MalonsMilk
    If it wasn't a residential area, how did he turn into the drive of somebody's house...?

    Add in their "driving slowly", and 50/50 is not wrong. He shouldn't have turned without looking, while you had all the clues you needed to decide overtaking was a bad plan.

    Simple rule: Don't EVER overtake where there's an entry (drive, junction) on the right-hand side of the road. Not only might the car you're overtaking turn into it, but somebody might turn left out of it.
    • marlot
    • By marlot 13th Feb 18, 7:50 PM
    • 3,268 Posts
    • 2,378 Thanks
    marlot
    In December I had a car accident and the case is still rumbling on. My insurance company wants me to accept 50/50 responsibility...
    Originally posted by MalonsMilk
    I can understand you feeling aggrieved, and I think 50/50 is harsh. But even if it was settled at 90/10 (with the 10 being you), you still lose your no claims. So unless you could get it to 100/0, I think you just need to accept it and move on.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 13th Feb 18, 8:00 PM
    • 3,971 Posts
    • 4,024 Thanks
    DoaM
    And if it was December 2016 I'd be concerned about the time taken to settle the claim ... but less than 3 months? Pah! The process has only just started.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Navigator123
    • By Navigator123 14th Feb 18, 10:43 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Navigator123
    And people ask me why I have a dash cam?
    • uknick
    • By uknick 14th Feb 18, 10:56 AM
    • 748 Posts
    • 338 Thanks
    uknick
    I feel like Im going crazy as I feel that if I was on a dual carriageway and he veered in front of me, would he still be able to claim that I was partially responsible? I feel like I cant overtake anyone now out of fear that they nay just decide to turn in front of me and I get caught out again. Help!
    Originally posted by MalonsMilk
    But, you weren't on a dual carriage way. Even then, I always thought the onus is on the overtaking car to make sure the overtake is safe.

    Out of interest roughly how long did it take from starting the overtake to being hit? And how far back from him were you when you started the outmaneuver? And, finally, did you exceed 40 mph during the overtake?
    • martinsurrey
    • By martinsurrey 14th Feb 18, 11:23 AM
    • 3,324 Posts
    • 4,060 Thanks
    martinsurrey
    I always thought the onus is on the overtaking car to make sure the overtake is safe.
    Originally posted by uknick
    It is, and it was, the OP did not hit anything that was in his lane, the car he was overtaking moved out of its lane without checking it was clear to do so.

    am I the only one who remembers "mirror signal manoeuvre"

    OP did that, the car that hit him did "... ... manoeuvre"
    • IanMSpencer
    • By IanMSpencer 14th Feb 18, 11:35 AM
    • 1,367 Posts
    • 1,027 Thanks
    IanMSpencer
    Shoulder checks are good too! (aka lifesaver).
    • yellow218
    • By yellow218 14th Feb 18, 4:55 PM
    • 79 Posts
    • 108 Thanks
    yellow218
    Shoulder checks are good too! (aka lifesaver).
    Originally posted by IanMSpencer
    Someone's a biker!
    I agree, everyone who uses the road should be checking their blindspot everytime they move. Having just learnt to ride, I realise how much forgot to do so when in the car. Now that i ride, lifesavers (even in the car) are second nature.
    • uknick
    • By uknick 14th Feb 18, 5:27 PM
    • 748 Posts
    • 338 Thanks
    uknick
    It is, and it was, the OP did not hit anything that was in his lane, the car he was overtaking moved out of its lane without checking it was clear to do so.

    am I the only one who remembers "mirror signal manoeuvre"

    OP did that, the car that hit him did "... ... manoeuvre"
    Originally posted by martinsurrey
    I don't disagree with any of that.

    I was asking the OP so we could find out at what point they decided to overtake and from how far back. If they started their overtake from some way back the other car has no excuse to suddenly turn right.

    However, if the OP suddenly pulled out from just behind the other car the other party might not have had time to correct their turn manoeuvre. This doesn't mean they're blameless, but I can see how the insurance company may wish to go 50/50.

    But like all these incidents, as we weren't there we'll never really know the true version of events.
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 15th Feb 18, 4:38 AM
    • 1,558 Posts
    • 1,063 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    Someone's a biker!
    I agree, everyone who uses the road should be checking their blindspot everytime they move. Having just learnt to ride, I realise how much forgot to do so when in the car. Now that i ride, lifesavers (even in the car) are second nature.
    Originally posted by yellow218
    Indeed, and you'd fail the driving test if you didn't do the over the shoulder blind spot test...
    • Retrogamer
    • By Retrogamer 15th Feb 18, 9:47 AM
    • 3,793 Posts
    • 3,775 Thanks
    Retrogamer
    I'd be wanting the other driver to be held fully liable.

    If they indicated you would have been able to see they were turning and you could have held off.

    If they checked their mirrors before making a maneuver like that (as anyone who drives sensibly / safe would) they would have seen you and could have turned after you completed the overtake.

    That's quite negligent on their part. It seems you're being punished for not being psychic.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

3,856Posts Today

9,157Users online

Martin's Twitter