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  • FIRST POST
    • bradshawj
    • By bradshawj 13th Feb 18, 2:27 PM
    • 6Posts
    • 1Thanks
    bradshawj
    Pro Rata'd Rent in February
    • #1
    • 13th Feb 18, 2:27 PM
    Pro Rata'd Rent in February 13th Feb 18 at 2:27 PM
    Hi,

    I have just moved out of a rented flat in England where my rent period ran from the 2nd of the month to the first of the next month.

    I paid my full month rent on the 2nd February to cover the period 2nd February to the 1st of March. My last day of tenancy was the 5th February so in my mind, I stayed for 4 days (2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th).

    My rent was £1250 pcm so by my reckoning, the daily rent is (1250*12)/365 = £41.10 per day.

    In this case, as I stayed for 4 extra days, the agent owes me £1250-(£41.10*4) = £1086.60.

    The agents are however using a different calculation in that they are saying that they are reimbursing me for days not stayed in the flat so the 6th February through to the 1st March inclusive (24 days) so they say they owe me £986.40.

    I feel I am being punished here for having moved out in a short month. I know this is all about £100 but the agents have behaved disgracefully since we moved out - not allowing us to attend check out, carrying out repainting without quotes and only using their "preferred contractors". They even recommended a cleaning company to me who quoted £200 to clean an empty flat (I carried this out myself to their standards in 5 hours!!). Not only that, they tried to charge me £20 for a door stop which they recorded on our check in over 4 years ago as damaged - you can buy a brand new version of this for £1.28 on Amazon!)

    Should I pursue them for the £1086.60 or just accept the £986.40 that they have offered?

    Thanks,

    John
Page 1
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 13th Feb 18, 2:31 PM
    • 2,345 Posts
    • 2,194 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #2
    • 13th Feb 18, 2:31 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Feb 18, 2:31 PM
    Hi,

    I have just moved out of a rented flat in England where my rent period ran from the 2nd of the month to the first of the next month.

    I paid my full month rent on the 2nd February to cover the period 2nd February to the 1st of March. My last day of tenancy was the 5th February so in my mind, I stayed for 4 days (2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th).

    My rent was £1250 pcm so by my reckoning, the daily rent is (1250*12)/365 = £41.10 per day.

    In this case, as I stayed for 4 extra days, the agent owes me £1250-(£41.10*4) = £1086.60.

    The agents are however using a different calculation in that they are saying that they are reimbursing me for days not stayed in the flat so the 6th February through to the 1st March inclusive (24 days) so they say they owe me £986.40.

    I feel I am being punished here for having moved out in a short month. I know this is all about £100 but the agents have behaved disgracefully since we moved out - not allowing us to attend check out, carrying out repainting without quotes and only using their "preferred contractors". They even recommended a cleaning company to me who quoted £200 to clean an empty flat (I carried this out myself to their standards in 5 hours!!). Not only that, they tried to charge me £20 for a door stop which they recorded on our check in over 4 years ago as damaged - you can buy a brand new version of this for £1.28 on Amazon!)

    Should I pursue them for the £1086.60 or just accept the £986.40 that they have offered?

    Thanks,

    John
    Originally posted by bradshawj
    What is the reason you are moving out, typically you pay rent for the full term, and are owed no refund.


    But there are exceptions, without knowing the circumstances it's difficult to discover your legal position.


    - in short, cause too much fuss now and you may get nothing.
    • bradshawj
    • By bradshawj 13th Feb 18, 2:39 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    bradshawj
    • #3
    • 13th Feb 18, 2:39 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Feb 18, 2:39 PM
    Hi,

    Thanks for the reply. We just bought a house and have been looking for some time, We kept the agent in the loop on this and agreed a 2 month rolling notice.

    When we gave notice, the agent asked if we could move out early as they had a tenant keen to take the flat so we agreed - even though this means we are living with builders at the moment!!

    The date of the 5th of February was agreed between us.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 13th Feb 18, 2:44 PM
    • 2,345 Posts
    • 2,194 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #4
    • 13th Feb 18, 2:44 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Feb 18, 2:44 PM
    In writing? Typically this is something that would be agreed as part of any surrender.


    Surely their calculation doesn't work for a simple reason. They're using an annual day figure, to calculate a short monthly day rate


    To counter: £1250 /28 * 24 = 1071
    • bradshawj
    • By bradshawj 13th Feb 18, 2:51 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    bradshawj
    • #5
    • 13th Feb 18, 2:51 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Feb 18, 2:51 PM
    Yep, via email.

    It was an oversight on my part that I didn't cancel the DD that went through on the 2nd February - just too busy sorting the new place I guess.

    As they had been so reasonable for 4 years, I didn't negotiate the exit as well as I should have but lesson learnt!

    The £1071 is an interesting argument though!

    Thanks
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 13th Feb 18, 2:57 PM
    • 2,345 Posts
    • 2,194 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #6
    • 13th Feb 18, 2:57 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Feb 18, 2:57 PM
    Yep, via email.

    It was an oversight on my part that I didn't cancel the DD that went through on the 2nd February - just too busy sorting the new place I guess.

    As they had been so reasonable for 4 years, I didn't negotiate the exit as well as I should have but lesson learnt!

    The £1071 is an interesting argument though!

    Thanks
    Originally posted by bradshawj
    It seemed the simplest way to work it out.
    • buggy_boy
    • By buggy_boy 13th Feb 18, 3:01 PM
    • 139 Posts
    • 87 Thanks
    buggy_boy
    • #7
    • 13th Feb 18, 3:01 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Feb 18, 3:01 PM
    I think you are probably right in your calculations... I would definitely question the estate agents math...

    However I see you have two issues, 1. You probably don't have it in writing the amount you pay, the issue is as its an early surrender by agreement of the agent (I know they asked for it but it makes no difference), then technically they can use their calculation. issue 2. You have already paid, if you had not then you would have leverage and it would be up to them to try and either prove there calculation is the correct calculation and claim from the deposit or go to court...

    I feel for you as I think you are morally right, however it costs money to go to small claims court, the time, cost and hassle of going through this with I would say only a slim chance of winning is really not worth it...

    I would definitely challenge them and send a few letters etc, make a bit of nuisance of yourself but ultimately you may have to put this down to experience...

    As a landlord I get this all the time, a prime example is tenants giving utility companies wrong readings at the end of tenancy to save them money, I always take readings at the end of the tenancy, offer for them to check and get them to sign to confirm they are the correct readings... Get it all in writing to avoid doubt.
    • Freecall
    • By Freecall 13th Feb 18, 3:03 PM
    • 1,062 Posts
    • 961 Thanks
    Freecall
    • #8
    • 13th Feb 18, 3:03 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Feb 18, 3:03 PM

    In this case, as I stayed for 4 extra days, the agent owes me £1250-(£41.10*4) = £1086.60.
    Originally posted by bradshawj

    So, if you stay for 27 days of February the agent would owe you £1250-(£41.10*27) = £140.30 for not staying that extra day.

    Pull the other one!
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 13th Feb 18, 3:05 PM
    • 2,345 Posts
    • 2,194 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #9
    • 13th Feb 18, 3:05 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Feb 18, 3:05 PM
    I think you are probably right in your calculations... I would definitely question the estate agents math...

    However I see you have two issues, 1. You probably don't have it in writing the amount you pay, the issue is as its an early surrender by agreement of the agent (I know they asked for it but it makes no difference), then technically they can use their calculation. issue 2. You have already paid, if you had not then you would have leverage and it would be up to them to try and either prove there calculation is the correct calculation and claim from the deposit or go to court...

    I feel for you as I think you are morally right, however it costs money to go to small claims court, the time, cost and hassle of going through this with I would say only a slim chance of winning is really not worth it...

    I would definitely challenge them and send a few letters etc, make a bit of nuisance of yourself but ultimately you may have to put this down to experience...

    As a landlord I get this all the time, a prime example is tenants giving utility companies wrong readings at the end of tenancy to save them money, I always take readings at the end of the tenancy, offer for them to check and get them to sign to confirm they are the correct readings... Get it all in writing to avoid doubt.
    Originally posted by buggy_boy

    Ofcourse they have no obligation to sign it, but I think it is a sensible idea
    • bradshawj
    • By bradshawj 13th Feb 18, 3:47 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    bradshawj
    So, if you stay for 27 days of February the agent would owe you £1250-(£41.10*27) = £140.30 for not staying that extra day.

    Pull the other one!
    Originally posted by Freecall
    Take your point, but if this had been January and had stayed 30 days, would I be happy getting1250- (30*41.1)= £17??

    It seems the agent are using the £15000/365 figure when they choose to and the actual daily February rate of 1250/28 when it suits.
    • buggy_boy
    • By buggy_boy 13th Feb 18, 3:59 PM
    • 139 Posts
    • 87 Thanks
    buggy_boy
    Ofcourse they have no obligation to sign it, but I think it is a sensible idea
    Originally posted by Comms69

    This is true, never had anyone refuse but if they did it would ring alarm bells and I would ask for someone neutral to check the readings and sign, take a photo with a newspaper from that date in it and probably ask the letting agent to come out and verify the readings. That combined would be enough for the utility companies.
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 13th Feb 18, 4:09 PM
    • 1,110 Posts
    • 746 Thanks
    saajan_12
    Generally, there is no rent refund, rent is due for entire tenancy periods which cannot be subdivided. There certainly is no 'daily rate' so the £41.10 figure in both your calculations is meaningless (what about leap years.. rent per hour.. minute.. )

    Per your original contract, the tenancy could only end through notice expiring and a court order (in the case of LL notice). You have mutually agreed to amend contract through a mutual surrender, to terminate on a certain date. That agreement encapsulates the terms of further amounts payable, etc - please quote the exact terms.

    IF you agreed a pro-rata rent refund of final rent, then that £1250 covers 28 days from 2 Feb - 1 March.
    4 days => 1250/28*4 = £178.57 cost
    24 days => 1250/28*24 = £1071.43 refund

    You're not taking a pro-rata of one year's rent, that wouldn't make sense on a periodic tenancy.
    • bradshawj
    • By bradshawj 13th Feb 18, 5:34 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    bradshawj
    Generally, there is no rent refund, rent is due for entire tenancy periods which cannot be subdivided. There certainly is no 'daily rate' so the £41.10 figure in both your calculations is meaningless (what about leap years.. rent per hour.. minute.. )

    Per your original contract, the tenancy could only end through notice expiring and a court order (in the case of LL notice). You have mutually agreed to amend contract through a mutual surrender, to terminate on a certain date. That agreement encapsulates the terms of further amounts payable, etc - please quote the exact terms.

    IF you agreed a pro-rata rent refund of final rent, then that £1250 covers 28 days from 2 Feb - 1 March.
    4 days => 1250/28*4 = £178.57 cost
    24 days => 1250/28*24 = £1071.43 refund

    You're not taking a pro-rata of one year's rent, that wouldn't make sense on a periodic tenancy.
    Originally posted by saajan_12
    Thanks so much. My agent just agreed to £1071.43 refund.

    Help gratefully received.
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