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  • FIRST POST
    • grum1965
    • By grum1965 13th Feb 18, 11:05 AM
    • 11Posts
    • 21Thanks
    grum1965
    Operator conceded this appeal due to Mitigation
    • #1
    • 13th Feb 18, 11:05 AM
    Operator conceded this appeal due to Mitigation 13th Feb 18 at 11:05 AM
    Details:
    My Appeal: You completed the appeal on 17/01/2018 10:27:12.
    The car park Charge notice that I have received states that I have exceeded the time limit and that there is clear signage in and around the car park stating such. The whole area in which I park has NO such signage and in fact appears to be a separate area - this is based on the fact that all the other sections of the car park are FLOODED by parking restriction signs and this section has NONE in the area at all. It has clearly been left clear of signs on purpose. Please see my photographs and a google map diagram of the area (The red on the diagram shows where all the signs are located and the green is the section that is completely free of signs and thus where I park my car). The Car Park Attendant seems to have chosen a random sign from the other part of the car park and added it to my case in order to infer that I was parked in one of the restricted areas. Please note. I have been sent another charge notice since this one with the same detail and similar photographs (Charge notice Z9621) and will provide the same evidence for that one, and any subsequent ones. I am willing to take this all the way to Court if necessary.

    Operators Prima Facie Case: The operator made their Prima Facie Case on 23/01/2018 11:19:19.
    The Operator Made The Following Comments...
    At this site there is a requirement to park within the time limit which is 3 hours and no return within 1 hours or a charge to park of £100 is incurred. This is a contractual condition which is displayed on signs at the entrance and throughout the retail park. Our photographic images clearly show the motorist overstayed and UKCPS Ltd therefore request this appeal be dismissed.

    Appellant's Response: The appellant made their response on 24/01/2018 14:11:45.
    I refer you to my diagram which shows there are no signs showing any restriction in the section of the car park where the car was parked. The photographic images taken by the operator merely show a sign from the other area of the car park. my photographs show that there a NO signs in that area of the retail park (please take note that the first photograph shows the entrance of the car park and you will see that the signage claimed by the operator does not exist). I reiterate that the "flooding" of signs in the other areas shows clearly that there are restrictions in those areas of the retail park but there is NOTHING to designate the area where
    the car is parked (shown in green on my diagram) as restricted.

    Operator's Response: The operator made their response on 31/01/2018 17:20:32.
    The signage on site is adequately placed throughout the site it makes it clear that the terms and conditions of parking are in force at all times and that a PCN will be issued to drivers who fail to comply with the terms and conditions of parking.

    Appellant's Response: The appellant made their response on 06/02/2018 10:31:36.
    The Operator is obviously not looking at the evidence that I have supplied and is assuming that the issuer of the PCN is correct. My evidence CLEARLY shows that there is NO signage AT ALL in the area in which the vehicle is parked. I invite The Operator to join me on the site and see this for his/her self and confirm that the photographs that I have supplied truly reflect the reality. I am still happy to take this to Court with the same evidence provided here.

    Appeal Status: Operator Conceded <-Just updated today 13/02/2018
    The Operator conceded this appeal due to Mitigation.

    I have also noticed the PDFs of random signage and their "so-called" photographic evidence has been removed from the appeal document since that response was posted this morning.
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Feb 18, 11:08 AM
    • 40,938 Posts
    • 81,719 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 13th Feb 18, 11:08 AM
    • #2
    • 13th Feb 18, 11:08 AM
    Good result, but what is the name of the PPC please?
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • grum1965
    • By grum1965 13th Feb 18, 11:11 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    grum1965
    • #3
    • 13th Feb 18, 11:11 AM
    • #3
    • 13th Feb 18, 11:11 AM
    It's written in the Prima Facie: UKCPS Ltd
    • grum1965
    • By grum1965 13th Feb 18, 11:12 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    grum1965
    • #4
    • 13th Feb 18, 11:12 AM
    • #4
    • 13th Feb 18, 11:12 AM
    How can I show the photos (and diagram) that I submitted to the appeal? I'm restricted from posting links
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Feb 18, 11:12 AM
    • 40,938 Posts
    • 81,719 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #5
    • 13th Feb 18, 11:12 AM
    • #5
    • 13th Feb 18, 11:12 AM
    It's written in the Prima Facie: UKCPS Ltd
    Originally posted by grum1965
    Sorry, I missed that. Wow, an IPC member giving up after the initial appeal(s). That's unusual.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 13-02-2018 at 11:16 AM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Feb 18, 11:14 AM
    • 40,938 Posts
    • 81,719 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #6
    • 13th Feb 18, 11:14 AM
    • #6
    • 13th Feb 18, 11:14 AM
    How can I show the photos (and diagram) that I submitted to the appeal? I'm restricted from posting links
    Originally posted by grum1965
    Upload them to a web hosting site such as postimage, or tinypic, then post the URL here but change http to hxxp. Someone will then convert it back to a live link for you. Make sure you redact all personal information first.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 13th Feb 18, 11:14 AM
    • 2,062 Posts
    • 3,668 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    • #7
    • 13th Feb 18, 11:14 AM
    • #7
    • 13th Feb 18, 11:14 AM
    It's not "mitigation" but entrapment. Perhaps a complaint to the IPC is in order - interesting to see them trying to spin this
    Idiots please note: If you intend NOT to read the information on the Notice of Allocation and hand a simple win to the knuckle dragging ex-clampers, then don't waste people's time with questions on a claim you'll not defend.
    • grum1965
    • By grum1965 13th Feb 18, 11:15 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    grum1965
    • #8
    • 13th Feb 18, 11:15 AM
    • #8
    • 13th Feb 18, 11:15 AM
    To be fair they had a VERY weak case and my final response was very cutting.
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 13th Feb 18, 11:17 AM
    • 3,505 Posts
    • 3,936 Thanks
    Johno100
    • #9
    • 13th Feb 18, 11:17 AM
    • #9
    • 13th Feb 18, 11:17 AM
    Not sure I'd describe that as mitigation. Sounds like they knew their signage was inadequate in part of the car park, they're up against someone who was willing to fight their corner and do the 'leg work' and that they were likely to lose at the 'independent' appeal stage (even with the IAS).
    • grum1965
    • By grum1965 13th Feb 18, 11:17 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    grum1965
    hxxp://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af354/grum1965/Castle%20marina%20Signage.png

    I think that's all that's needed. The other photos show storyboard of me entering the site and various views around the area marked, all including my car in the images.
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 13th Feb 18, 11:18 AM
    • 8,706 Posts
    • 9,279 Thanks
    pappa golf
    To be fair they had a VERY weak case and my final response was very cutting.
    Originally posted by grum1965

    the "cutting" should be left to the hangmans assistant , after the IPC finish with them


    oh look , a flying pig
    Save a Rachael

    buy a share in crapita
    • grum1965
    • By grum1965 13th Feb 18, 11:19 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    grum1965
    They actually provided a similar google maps image of the positions of signs on lamp posts... However, they showed two lamp posts on their diagram where there is only one in reality and NO signs
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Feb 18, 11:21 AM
    • 40,938 Posts
    • 81,719 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    hxxp://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af354/grum1965/Castle%20marina%20Signage.png

    I think that's all that's needed. The other photos show storyboard of me entering the site and various views around the area marked, all including my car in the images.
    Originally posted by grum1965
    http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af354/grum1965/Castle%20marina%20Signage.png

    I can't work out what it's supposed to be showing because of the annoying adverts that cover it. That's why I prefer to use postimage
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 13-02-2018 at 11:25 AM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 13th Feb 18, 11:21 AM
    • 8,706 Posts
    • 9,279 Thanks
    pappa golf
    so they FAKED the photos?


    gosh , thats unusual for an IPC member
    Save a Rachael

    buy a share in crapita
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 13th Feb 18, 11:21 AM
    • 3,981 Posts
    • 4,033 Thanks
    DoaM
    I'm not sure I understand the sequence of events as described in the OP ... is that actually the IAS appeals process?
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • grum1965
    • By grum1965 13th Feb 18, 11:24 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    grum1965
    Yep. I first appealled on UKCPS Ltd website and it was refused and they refered me to the IAS website where I filled in the detail of my appeal. The Operator then came back with the Prima Facie and I have chance to respond again, and vice versa. The sequence is just as I have posted it here
    Last edited by grum1965; 13-02-2018 at 11:26 AM. Reason: changed "order" for "sequence" for clarity
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Feb 18, 11:28 AM
    • 40,938 Posts
    • 81,719 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Yep. I first appealled on UKCPS Ltd website and it was refused and they refered me to the IAS website where I filled in the detail of my appeal. The Operator then came back with the Prima Facie and I have chance to respond again, and vice versa. The order is just as I have posted it here
    Originally posted by grum1965
    Ah, you didn't make that clear.

    It's still unusual to win at IAS. They normally reject over 80% out of hand.

    It's still a good result though. Well done.

    Now you need to complain to your MP.

    These are some of the comments made by the MPs in Parliament concerning the unregulated parking industry (Feb 2018):

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

    ''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

    These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to your MP in a complaint and ask him/her to contact Sir Greg Knight MP if he wants further information about this scam.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 13th Feb 18, 11:29 AM
    • 8,706 Posts
    • 9,279 Thanks
    pappa golf
    real time court , overlooked by the local barrista , when he is not making coffee for the golfers
    Save a Rachael

    buy a share in crapita
    • grum1965
    • By grum1965 13th Feb 18, 11:30 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    grum1965
    Apologies.
    Yes I'll follow this up with my MP. thanks for the link
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 13th Feb 18, 11:37 AM
    • 8,175 Posts
    • 7,480 Thanks
    The Deep
    Well done, but this is not mitigation, mitigation is, "I forgot where I parked my car". This is the PPC trying to scam you.

    Please do complain in the strongest terms to your MP that they have wasted to your time, bur watch this video first:

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    With a fair wind they will be toast by Christmas.
    Last edited by The Deep; 13-02-2018 at 11:44 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
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