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    • Peter6268
    • By Peter6268 13th Feb 18, 8:02 AM
    • 16Posts
    • 7Thanks
    Peter6268
    HSBC want me to close account - t&c's
    • #1
    • 13th Feb 18, 8:02 AM
    HSBC want me to close account - t&c's 13th Feb 18 at 8:02 AM
    Going back to early 2007, I opened a basic bank account at the local branch of HSBC. The reason for opening the account was so that I could use their coin counting machine every few months to get rid of the coins that I save up (every day I put any change into a pot and bank it every few months). I save up the balance to help with Christmas shopping etc.

    The HSBC is the only bank in my local town with such a coin counting machine. At every other bank I would have to count the coins into bank bags etc and suffer the restrictions on paying in coinage. Also, as I have Parkinson's disease, manually sorting and counting coins is not exactly easy.

    When I opened the account back in 2007 I explained to the lady at the bank the reason I wanted to open the account as it is a totally stand alone account at HSBC (my main bank where I have my current and savings accounts is the Natwest). The lady was fine with this, so the account was opened, and I have had a visa debit card since the account was opened.

    The account has never been overdrawn and it generally has a build up of a few hundred pounds before I use it at Christmas. I also pay the odd cheques I receive into the account as well.

    Anyway, I went into the HSBC yesterday to pay in approx. £50 of mixed coinage. There seemed to be some problem with the machine and the lady floor walker came over to help. She looked at my visa debit card (I use it to get the account number to enter into the machine) and she asked if that was my only account.

    I explained to her the reason for having the account and she said she must close the account forthwith, as it is outside their current terms and conditions for having a basic account. The current applicable terms being - You must not continue to hold a bank (payment) account with another UK provider.

    However, when I opened the account, it was most definitely within the terms and conditions for having a Basic account (I still have the bumph from back in 2007 including the t&c's from when the account was opened).

    The lady said they might let me open a Flexible Saver savings account (paying 0.1% interest, wow) but it does not come with the handy visa debit card. I do not want another full fat current account as that would mean a credit check (not that I am concerned I would fail it, just that I am looking to update my credit cards shortly as my 0% offers are coming to an end). Hence, I would rather have as few credit checks as possible. I also already have a 'back up' full current account at the TSB which a small occupational pension goes into monthly.

    I told the HSBC lady that I was in a hurry so would come back in next week to see about changing the account. However, I don't really see why I should change accounts. It was within their t&cs when the account was opened. I haven't used the account for any other purpose than what it was intended for and I have never been anywhere near going overdrawn etc.

    Can they just close my account because they have changed their t&c's (and the current t&c's are not what I signed up to back in 2007)? It is hardly my fault that they have changed their t&c's since the account was opened.

    Sorry this is a bit long-winded but I wanted to include all the facts.

    Many thanks.
    Last edited by Peter6268; 13-02-2018 at 8:28 AM. Reason: clarity
Page 1
    • KxMx
    • By KxMx 13th Feb 18, 8:23 AM
    • 7,304 Posts
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    KxMx
    • #2
    • 13th Feb 18, 8:23 AM
    • #2
    • 13th Feb 18, 8:23 AM
    Bank's do change t&cs and are within their rights to do so. The current terms are the ones which apply now, not the 2007 ones.

    In your circumstances I'd contact HSBC and see if on the grounds of your illness they can use their discretion to keep the account open.
    • Peter6268
    • By Peter6268 13th Feb 18, 9:26 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Peter6268
    • #3
    • 13th Feb 18, 9:26 AM
    • #3
    • 13th Feb 18, 9:26 AM
    Bank's do change t&cs and are within their rights to do so. The current terms are the ones which apply now, not the 2007 ones.

    In your circumstances I'd contact HSBC and see if on the grounds of your illness they can use their discretion to keep the account open.
    Originally posted by KxMx
    Many thanks.

    I have spoken with the telephone banking people, who were quite officious in telling me that my account will be closed (apparently under their current t&cs they are giving 14 days notice to close a basic account for some reason).

    I think I may try directly at the branch again, albeit I hate using my disability as a reason for asking to keep the account open.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 13th Feb 18, 11:20 AM
    • 57,539 Posts
    • 50,854 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    • #4
    • 13th Feb 18, 11:20 AM
    • #4
    • 13th Feb 18, 11:20 AM
    I think I may try directly at the branch again, albeit I hate using my disability as a reason for asking to keep the account open.
    Originally posted by Peter6268
    Why not use the account as your main one.
    Financial disasters happen when the last person who can remember what went wrong last time has left the building.
    • 18cc
    • By 18cc 13th Feb 18, 11:28 AM
    • 249 Posts
    • 150 Thanks
    18cc
    • #5
    • 13th Feb 18, 11:28 AM
    • #5
    • 13th Feb 18, 11:28 AM
    My understanding is that the problem is not that the account is not being used as a main current account (whatever that is) but the fact that if you have a basic account you are not really allowed to have a second account elsewhere

    basic accounts are meant for people who cannot get banking services elsewhere because of previous credit history EG bankruptcy

    I would take them up on their offer of opening a savings account provided that you can pay coins into your savings accounts of course you can then transfer the money from that savings account to your TSB account
    • PeacefulWaters
    • By PeacefulWaters 13th Feb 18, 11:40 AM
    • 7,738 Posts
    • 9,700 Thanks
    PeacefulWaters
    • #6
    • 13th Feb 18, 11:40 AM
    • #6
    • 13th Feb 18, 11:40 AM
    I'd stop collecting coins.
    • takman
    • By takman 13th Feb 18, 11:56 AM
    • 3,100 Posts
    • 2,683 Thanks
    takman
    • #7
    • 13th Feb 18, 11:56 AM
    • #7
    • 13th Feb 18, 11:56 AM
    I thought that i had read on here that the HSBC coin counting machines only ask for your sort code and account number and people have used them to successfully pay into accounts at other banks; so you may not need an account at HSBC at all.
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 13th Feb 18, 12:12 PM
    • 3,453 Posts
    • 895 Thanks
    Anthorn
    • #8
    • 13th Feb 18, 12:12 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Feb 18, 12:12 PM
    I'm sketchy on the illness and/or disability because as far as I can see it's not in the opening post. However do you need to use the coin counting machine due to your illness and/or disability not being able to count with your hands, is the current account necessary for you in your daily everyday life and is the bank aware of it. If so the bank are discriminating against you because of your illness/disability. If all that is true personally my first step would be my local M.P.
    • TheShape
    • By TheShape 13th Feb 18, 12:43 PM
    • 1,242 Posts
    • 1,041 Thanks
    TheShape
    • #9
    • 13th Feb 18, 12:43 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Feb 18, 12:43 PM
    I'd stop collecting coins.
    Originally posted by PeacefulWaters
    Isn't collecting the coins just making extra work for yourself? If you spent the coins as part of your normal spending you wouldn't need to withdraw money so often and you wouldn't need to take the coins to the bank. £50 is a lot of coins to accumulate (unless they're all £2 coins).
    • EarthBoy
    • By EarthBoy 13th Feb 18, 12:58 PM
    • 1,806 Posts
    • 1,108 Thanks
    EarthBoy
    I'm sketchy on the illness and/or disability because as far as I can see it's not in the opening post. However do you need to use the coin counting machine due to your illness and/or disability not being able to count with your hands, is the current account necessary for you in your daily everyday life and is the bank aware of it. If so the bank are discriminating against you because of your illness/disability. If all that is true personally my first step would be my local M.P.
    Originally posted by Anthorn

    What a waste of time that would be! There's no disability discrimination here. In any case, banks aren't afraid of MPs, -if they were, they wouldn't be closing branches left, right and centre. Lots of MPs have complained about branch closures in their constituencies and tried to put pressure on the banks to change their minds, but the banks take no notice and virtually blow raspberries at the MPs.
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 13th Feb 18, 1:01 PM
    • 3,453 Posts
    • 895 Thanks
    Anthorn
    What a waste of time that would be! There's no disability discrimination here. In any case, banks aren't afraid of MPs, -if they were, they wouldn't be closing branches left, right and centre. Lots of MPs have complained about branch closures in their constituencies and tried to put pressure on the banks to change their minds, but the banks take no notice and virtually blow raspberries at the MPs.
    Originally posted by EarthBoy
    How has branch closures come into it? What I highlighted is the possibility of discrimination against disability and illness itself a hot topic these days.
    • Peter6268
    • By Peter6268 13th Feb 18, 1:07 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Peter6268
    Hello,

    Thanks all.

    Just a few responses,

    The Parkinson's gives me very severe tremors in my hands, hence not being able to count coins very easily into bankable amounts in bank bags.

    I seem to get a lot of coins as it is difficult for me to count them out in shops etc when paying for things. Hence I usually pay with notes and trouser the change which builds up quite quickly.

    I could open a deposit account, but the visa debit card is handy with this account. With the deposit account one only gets a cashpoint card.

    I can't really use this account as my main current account due to its basic limitations. It is really just a 'gash' extra account to deposit the coins into. It builds up quite quickly and I had over £400 saved up to help with the Christmas shopping last December.

    Also I have two normal current accounts already - I have been with Natwest for years, and I opened the TSB current account as a 'standby' after Natwest's computers all crashed a few years back and I couldn't access any money or use the debit card for four or five days.

    When I opened this basic account at the HSBC ten years ago, there was no condition/rule about not having an account elsewhere. Anyone could open one. The rule that the Basic account must be your only account has been slipped in since then.

    I will pop in and speak with them again tomorrow anyway. I just wish more banks had these coin counting machines, but at the rate all the banks seem to be shutting branches down, I suppoose that is too much to ask.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 13th Feb 18, 1:10 PM
    • 57,539 Posts
    • 50,854 Thanks
    Thrugelmir

    I will pop in and speak with them again tomorrow anyway. I just wish more banks had these coin counting machines, but at the rate all the banks seem to be shutting branches down, I suppoose that is too much to ask.
    Originally posted by Peter6268
    Banks are in business. Not just on the High Street to provide the public with free services. Relationships need to be 2 way. Of benefit to both parties. Much in the same way that the traditional High Street is slowly dying. If you don't use
    it then it it will be gone.
    Financial disasters happen when the last person who can remember what went wrong last time has left the building.
    • EarthBoy
    • By EarthBoy 13th Feb 18, 1:12 PM
    • 1,806 Posts
    • 1,108 Thanks
    EarthBoy
    How has branch closures come into it?
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    It was an example of how the banks take no notice of MPs.

    What I highlighted is the possibility of discrimination against disability and illness itself a hot topic these days.
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    Branch closures are also a hot topic. As I said, there's no evidence of discrimination against disability. The OP says they have difficulty counting and sorting coins, but that's nothing to do with why they want to close their account. They want to close it because it's only a basic account and, under their terms and conditions, you shouldn't have a basic account if you've got a full current account elsewhere. Several banks have a similar condition, HSBS isn't alone in this. The OP could open a full current account with HSBC and continue to use the coin counting machine. In what way are HSBC discriminating because of disability?
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 13th Feb 18, 1:21 PM
    • 6,303 Posts
    • 6,370 Thanks
    eskbanker
    I seem to get a lot of coins as it is difficult for me to count them out in shops etc when paying for things. Hence I usually pay with notes and trouser the change which builds up quite quickly.

    I could open a deposit account, but the visa debit card is handy with this account. With the deposit account one only gets a cashpoint card.
    Originally posted by Peter6268
    Far be it from me to tell you how to operate your finances but I'd just observe that (in the context of some form of compromise being necessary) if you already have two other current accounts with debit cards (and pension funding, etc), surely there shouldn't be much need to use the HSBC one, especially if you're effectively using the account for saving?

    Also, without knowing your shopping habits, if you're typically paying with notes, is using your debit card (contactless perhaps?) more regularly viable instead of cash, you might even earn some cashback if it's the right TSB version?
    • Kim_13
    • By Kim_13 13th Feb 18, 6:01 PM
    • 1,903 Posts
    • 2,026 Thanks
    Kim_13
    Given that HSBC do not allow a customer to have anything other than a basic account unless they pay in £500 per month, it does seem a little overzealous to then close basic accounts for this reason. But, as others have said, they are free to change the terms as they like. Customers are then free either accept them or bank elsewhere.

    I suspect that they won't back down on closing your account due to your disability, especially since they haven't refused you a standard current account yet, and so would argue that you still have a way to use the machines.

    Once your credit cards are sorted out it might be worth getting the standard current account (though you'd need to cycle £500 through each month but doing so would satisfy both HSBC and the minimum pay in on the TSB Classic Plus to earn interest, if you have that account.)

    In the meantime, I'd try to cut down coinage by paying using cards (it would also mean you don't accidentally lose any change when trying to put it away and can be sure that you haven't been accidentally short changed.) If the savings account makes things difficult in terms of inability to use or difficulty using the machines, I'd try banking the coinage in smaller amounts and asking a cashier if they could bag it for you. If you could separate each denomination of coin into say a larger food bag, then they'd only need to transfer the sorted coins into the more fiddly coin bags and weigh them.
    Last edited by Kim_13; 13-02-2018 at 9:43 PM.
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    • kazwookie
    • By kazwookie 13th Feb 18, 6:11 PM
    • 9,487 Posts
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    kazwookie
    Are there any other cash counting machines in your area?

    My local tesco's for example has one.
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    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 13th Feb 18, 6:41 PM
    • 4,611 Posts
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    EachPenny
    Are there any other cash counting machines in your area?

    My local tesco's for example has one.
    Originally posted by kazwookie
    The machines in supermarkets usually charge a significant fee for use. The ones in banks are free.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • Heng Leng
    • By Heng Leng 13th Feb 18, 6:42 PM
    • 4,369 Posts
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    Heng Leng
    Are there any other cash counting machines in your area?

    My local tesco's for example has one.
    Originally posted by kazwookie
    Coinstar? They aren't free of charge.
    • gt94sss2
    • By gt94sss2 13th Feb 18, 9:33 PM
    • 4,035 Posts
    • 1,871 Thanks
    gt94sss2
    I could open a deposit account, but the visa debit card is handy with this account. With the deposit account one only gets a cashpoint card.

    I can't really use this account as my main current account due to its basic limitations. It is really just a 'gash' extra account to deposit the coins into. It builds up quite quickly and I had over £400 saved up to help with the Christmas shopping last December.

    Also I have two normal current accounts already - I have been with Natwest for years, and I opened the TSB current account as a 'standby' after Natwest's computers all crashed a few years back and I couldn't access any money or use the debit card for four or five days.
    Originally posted by Peter6268
    If you really value the coin counting facility at HSBC, why not upgrade your account to a normal current account with them - perhaps closing one of your two other accounts, if you don't want to keep 3 current accounts going.

    Then it won't have the limitations which make it a basic account.

    However, I don't really see why I should change accounts. It was within their t&cs when the account was opened. I haven't used the account for any other purpose than what it was intended for and I have never been anywhere near going overdrawn etc.

    Can they just close my account because they have changed their t&c's (and the current t&c's are not what I signed up to back in 2007)?
    Yes, they can. The rules governing basic accounts have changed and you don't meet their criteria. Such accounts are designed for individuals who can't open normal accounts.

    Even if the T&C had not changed, a bank is still entitled to close an account if they want to do so.
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