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  • FIRST POST
    • LittlePants
    • By LittlePants 12th Feb 18, 12:33 PM
    • 7Posts
    • 0Thanks
    LittlePants
    0 WOW
    Avios points are pretty well useless now
    • #1
    • 12th Feb 18, 12:33 PM
    0 WOW
    Avios points are pretty well useless now 12th Feb 18 at 12:33 PM
    Sorry this is a rant, but I need to let off steam.

    I have used Avios points for many years booking ferry crossings. This year I tried to book again only to find that ferry travel has been removed. Having spent all my Tesco Clubcard points on purchasing Avios points I am now extremely annoyed to find that I cannot use them. The only offers available are extremely expensive and so far, although I have tried several options from booking a flight, to car hire to a private transfer, Avios charges come up every time at about 3 times what I can buy the flight/carhire/transfer for direct.

    The 9250 points I now have are absolutely useless. Apparently if you live in London you may be OK. Flights booked out of London are available, (or so Avios tells me) but seeing as I live in Cumbria, that is a little unrealistic.

    I am REALLY annoyed about this change, and the fact that Avios didn't inform their members of the changes well enough in advance to refrain from wasting Tesco Clubcard points on purchasing Avios points. These it appears are pretty well useless to me now.

    Avios informs me that Martins Money tips say this is a great scheme. I can't find any reference to it, but would really appreciate a further investigation as to whether this is still a good scheme - because to my mind it is worse than useless, and certainly NOT a money saver.

    Return Flight from Manchester to Geneva recently investigated - £350+ return via Avios. Flight booked vis Jet2 £49.50. RIP OFF of the first order.

    Does anyone else have similar experiences?
Page 1
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 12th Feb 18, 12:41 PM
    • 3,594 Posts
    • 4,883 Thanks
    Nick_C
    • #2
    • 12th Feb 18, 12:41 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Feb 18, 12:41 PM
    Avios is essentially an airline rewards scheme, and it works well for airline rewards.

    It's particularly good for long haul flights in First or Business (but not economy) or short haul "Reward Flight Savers".

    Like most airline schemes, redemptions outside of the airlines are not great.

    I've got over 10,000 Virgin miles and nearly 13,000 AA miles - now they are useless. But my partner and I flew business class to LA last year using Avios, and we have enough to do the same again.

    On the smallest scale, you can use avios to pay for food and drink on short haul economy flights.
    • Alikay
    • By Alikay 12th Feb 18, 12:47 PM
    • 4,681 Posts
    • 12,627 Thanks
    Alikay
    • #3
    • 12th Feb 18, 12:47 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Feb 18, 12:47 PM
    I think Avios is pretty good, as loyalty points schemes go, but we have them as DH earns them for business travel: I'd never swap Tesco Clubcard points which have lots of redemption opportunities for Avios which are more restricted.

    I agree the flights aren't that great - we live in the Midlands so in general use Ryanair/Jet2 flights from our local airports. What about using your Avios towards a hotel stay or afternoon tea?
    • jpsartre
    • By jpsartre 12th Feb 18, 12:50 PM
    • 2,923 Posts
    • 1,928 Thanks
    jpsartre
    • #4
    • 12th Feb 18, 12:50 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Feb 18, 12:50 PM
    Avios informs me that Martins Money tips say this is a great scheme. I can't find any reference to it, but would really appreciate a further investigation as to whether this is still a good scheme - because to my mind it is worse than useless, and certainly NOT a money saver.
    Originally posted by LittlePants
    There is no such thing as a good or bad scheme simpliciter, it all depends on what you want from it. If your only interest is in ferry crossing and you can no longer use Avios for this purpose then it's obviously not a good scheme for you. I use Avios for flights on a regular basis and find that it's great value (and no, I don't live in London) so for me it works.

    Your flight comparison makes little sense to me as you cannot book Jet2 flights using Avios so whatever you're comparing it's not like for like. BA reward saver from MAN to GVA (via LHR) will cost you £35 + 9000 Avios (8000 if travelling on an off-peak day). Of course, you can always find examples where Avios presents very little (or even negative) value just as you can find examples of the opposite. E.g. an Avios ticket on a flight to FRA from LHR this afternoon will cost you £17.50 + 4500 Avios vs £567 for a cash ticket.
    • richardw
    • By richardw 12th Feb 18, 1:27 PM
    • 18,455 Posts
    • 7,639 Thanks
    richardw
    • #5
    • 12th Feb 18, 1:27 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Feb 18, 1:27 PM
    Btw BA have increased their non stop flights for summer from MAN starting mid May.
    Posts are not advice and must not be relied upon.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 12th Feb 18, 1:46 PM
    • 11,926 Posts
    • 8,094 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    • #6
    • 12th Feb 18, 1:46 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Feb 18, 1:46 PM
    Sorry this is a rant, but I need to let off steam.

    I have used Avios points for many years booking ferry crossings. This year I tried to book again only to find that ferry travel has been removed. Having spent all my Tesco Clubcard points on purchasing Avios points I am now extremely annoyed to find that I cannot use them. The only offers available are extremely expensive and so far, although I have tried several options from booking a flight, to car hire to a private transfer, Avios charges come up every time at about 3 times what I can buy the flight/carhire/transfer for direct.

    The 9250 points I now have are absolutely useless. Apparently if you live in London you may be OK. Flights booked out of London are available, (or so Avios tells me) but seeing as I live in Cumbria, that is a little unrealistic.

    I am REALLY annoyed about this change, and the fact that Avios didn't inform their members of the changes well enough in advance to refrain from wasting Tesco Clubcard points on purchasing Avios points. These it appears are pretty well useless to me now.

    Avios informs me that Martins Money tips say this is a great scheme. I can't find any reference to it, but would really appreciate a further investigation as to whether this is still a good scheme - because to my mind it is worse than useless, and certainly NOT a money saver.

    Return Flight from Manchester to Geneva recently investigated - £350+ return via Avios. Flight booked vis Jet2 £49.50. RIP OFF of the first order.

    Does anyone else have similar experiences?
    Originally posted by LittlePants
    I can understand your frustration if you exchanged for a certain deal only to find it isn't there, but did you check before you exchanged?

    FWIW I don't live in London, I live further from an international airport than you do I bet....and yet I still manage to spend my Avios. I find the best redemptions apart from RFS (reward flight saver) are F or J long haul. That being said, we went to Rome last weekend for the rugby in CE and it basically cost standard Avios redemption and £50 in real money for the taxes on a flight that was costed at £2kplus on the day. I think I easily consumed £50 worth of food and champagne in the lounge and on the flight.
    • PeacefulWaters
    • By PeacefulWaters 12th Feb 18, 2:16 PM
    • 7,738 Posts
    • 9,700 Thanks
    PeacefulWaters
    • #7
    • 12th Feb 18, 2:16 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Feb 18, 2:16 PM
    Red wine it is then.

    Or Prosecco.
    • CM66
    • By CM66 12th Feb 18, 2:59 PM
    • 519 Posts
    • 3,028 Thanks
    CM66
    • #8
    • 12th Feb 18, 2:59 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Feb 18, 2:59 PM
    Its completely subjective - i think Avios are great. I've just booked 2 business class return flights to Toronto for 100k miles and £800
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 12th Feb 18, 3:54 PM
    • 3,594 Posts
    • 4,883 Thanks
    Nick_C
    • #9
    • 12th Feb 18, 3:54 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Feb 18, 3:54 PM
    Its completely subjective - i think Avios are great. I've just booked 2 business class return flights to Toronto for 100k miles and £800
    Originally posted by CM66
    How did you manage that?

    To get two flights for 100K you must be using a 241 voucher on BA metal.

    The fees and charges come out at £513 each when I look!

    Edit: Are you starting in Inverness? or Jersey?
    Last edited by Nick_C; 12-02-2018 at 4:05 PM.
    • CM66
    • By CM66 12th Feb 18, 4:39 PM
    • 519 Posts
    • 3,028 Thanks
    CM66
    How did you manage that?

    To get two flights for 100K you must be using a 241 voucher on BA metal.

    The fees and charges come out at £513 each when I look!

    Edit: Are you starting in Inverness? or Jersey?
    Originally posted by Nick_C

    Sorry yes - omitted a few details, its an EX-Jersey and a BA 241 voucher!
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 12th Feb 18, 5:03 PM
    • 3,594 Posts
    • 4,883 Thanks
    Nick_C
    Surprised how much late availability there is to Toronto! Enjoy your trip.
    • stoneman
    • By stoneman 12th Feb 18, 5:59 PM
    • 4,160 Posts
    • 3,128 Thanks
    stoneman
    Sorry yes - omitted a few details, its an EX-Jersey and a BA 241 voucher!
    Originally posted by CM66
    So not the same thing at all then.

    You had to spend £10K on your card, pay the £195 fee for the card, it would have cost you more than £200 more in fees than you stated, God knows what else you left out, probably having to position in JER, shall I go on?

    Omitting details to make something sound good is a bit lame.
    Last edited by stoneman; 12-02-2018 at 6:02 PM.
    The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 12th Feb 18, 6:17 PM
    • 3,594 Posts
    • 4,883 Thanks
    Nick_C
    So not the same thing at all then.

    You had to spend £10K on your card, pay the £195 fee for the card, it would have cost you more than £200 more in fees than you stated, God knows what else you left out, probably having to position in JER, shall I go on?

    Omitting details to make something sound good is a bit lame.
    Originally posted by stoneman
    Not the same thing as what?

    What CM66 said was entirely accurate. It just too me a little while to work out how he achieved it!

    Most people who collect Avios pay something for some of them.

    My average cost is 0.236 p/Avios. That includes the cost of my BAPP card. So for me and my OH to fly to Toronto and back in J would cost £1026 cash plus £236 worth of Avios; ie £531 each. That is an absolute bargain for tickets that you would cost about £2K each.

    Everyone's cost per Avios is different, depending on how you collect them. If you get them all via Tesco then they are costing you 0.42 each, so those Toronto flights (from London) would cost £723 each. Still a steal.

    Avios may not work for everyone, but many people in the know find it an incredibly cheap way to fly in the front of the plane.
    • alfista
    • By alfista 21st Feb 18, 4:24 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    alfista
    In the space of 12 months, I've used Avios to fly to Venice, Barcelona, and Corfu. Each of these trips has cost me £70 (two return flights for myself and my wife) plus "N" Avios. The Avios are free (I pay no credit card fees or interest in order to obtain the Avios), so that looks like a pretty good deal to me. Also, BA don't charge me to put a suitcase in the hold. What's not to like ?
    It's only rock 'n' roll ...
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 21st Feb 18, 5:05 PM
    • 3,594 Posts
    • 4,883 Thanks
    Nick_C
    I wouldn't agree that Avios earned through a credit card are free. You could use a different credit card that gave you cashback.

    The Nationwide Visa gives you 0.25% cashback.

    My Lloyds Amex card gives me 1.25 Avios per pound.

    I cost my Avios from Lloyds at 0.2p per Avios.

    (I also account for the annual fee, but this is more than offset by cashback deals such as shop small).

    Avios earned from flying One World are free. I also count the ones I earn from surveys as free as my spare time has no monetary value.

    Edit: Correction. I count the Avios I earn from Lloyds on foreign spending as free, as I've never had a CC that gives cash back on foreign transactions.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 21st Feb 18, 6:53 PM
    • 11,926 Posts
    • 8,094 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    I wouldn't agree that Avios earned through a credit card are free. You could use a different credit card that gave you cashback.

    The Nationwide Visa gives you 0.25% cashback.

    My Lloyds Amex card gives me 1.25 Avios per pound.

    I cost my Avios from Lloyds at 0.2p per Avios.

    (I also account for the annual fee, but this is more than offset by cashback deals such as shop small).

    Avios earned from flying One World are free. I also count the ones I earn from surveys as free as my spare time has no monetary value.

    Edit: Correction. I count the Avios I earn from Lloyds on foreign spending as free, as I've never had a CC that gives cash back on foreign transactions.
    Originally posted by Nick_C
    Amex Gold is free for the first year and comes with avios per £1 spent and a generous sign up bonus. Free avios in anyone's calculations is it not?
    • jpsartre
    • By jpsartre 21st Feb 18, 7:44 PM
    • 2,923 Posts
    • 1,928 Thanks
    jpsartre
    I guess you have to compare it with what you could get using other cards. If you're giving up 0.25% cashback from using a different card then that would be a cost.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 21st Feb 18, 7:48 PM
    • 11,926 Posts
    • 8,094 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    I guess you have to compare it with what you could get using other cards. If you're giving up 0.25% cashback from using a different card then that would be a cost.
    Originally posted by jpsartre
    But you aren't giving up cash back for "nothing". My Avios in the last 6 months have bought me F transatlantic that were (at the time of booking) £4k each and J europe during a very busy sporting weekend at £2k each.

    So if you want to be a pedant, it's not what you earn in Avios, it's what you manage to trade them for, versus the cash back (or equivalent) on a card that gives £.

    0.25% cash back isn't something I would get out of bed for. I get much more using them for what I want to use them for.
    • jpsartre
    • By jpsartre 21st Feb 18, 9:26 PM
    • 2,923 Posts
    • 1,928 Thanks
    jpsartre
    But you aren't giving up cash back for "nothing".
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    Nobody said you were. You're giving up cash for something (i.e. Avios) which means the something isn't strictly speaking free.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 21st Feb 18, 9:37 PM
    • 11,926 Posts
    • 8,094 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    Nobody said you were. You're giving up cash for something (i.e. Avios) which means the something isn't strictly speaking free.
    Originally posted by jpsartre

    You said "If you're giving up 0.25% cashback from using a different card then that would be a cost.".

    I am not giving up any cashback and there is no cost. The card is free and the return, is more than 0.25%.
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