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    • yellow218
    • By yellow218 11th Feb 18, 9:46 AM
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    yellow218
    Accident- fault in dispute
    • #1
    • 11th Feb 18, 9:46 AM
    Accident- fault in dispute 11th Feb 18 at 9:46 AM
    Hubby had an accident on his motorbike in November. Bike now fixed, and no lasting injury thankfully.

    Insurance involved, they asked for a statement of events which hubby very thoroughly provided within days of the accident, along with photos. Having gone through it with him, with the highway code book in hand, it seems very obvious that the car driver was at fault- she simply didn't look and then pulled out into his path. Nice hubby shaped dent in her car.

    His insurance team agree and say they are dealing with it as a non-fault claim and are pursuing the other parties insurance, but they are disputing this.
    However, the third party has still not provided a statement to her insurance company. Is there a time frame for when she must do so (surely by now, it's not a fresh memory, so how reliable is her statement? To be honest, given that she is dragging her feet about it, i feel she knows she was in the wrong but wont admit it). It must feel horrible to hit a biker, but thankfully he is ok, and surely dragging out this process will make it worse.

    As mentioned, bike now fixed. We have had to pay the excess directly to the company that fixed it, we assume hubbys insurance company have had to pay the rest. Therefore both us and insurance company are out of pocket.

    Question is. What happens now? We have both had previous accidents when the third party was at fault and admitted to it, pretty easy to resolve. But we have no experience of disputed fault claims. What usually happens? Are there set deadlines for things?

    Obviously we want to be able to claim back our expenses (excess for bike fix, new helmet, time off work for injury), but also concerned about renewal? Will we have to stay with the same company if the claim is not closed, or can we do what we always do- compare and move to another insurer if we wanted/ cheaper?

    Thank you
Page 1
    • dacouch
    • By dacouch 11th Feb 18, 10:27 AM
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    dacouch
    • #2
    • 11th Feb 18, 10:27 AM
    • #2
    • 11th Feb 18, 10:27 AM
    I assume your husband was filtering along the outside of traffic and the third party turned right across your husband.

    If this is the case it is not neccessarily a clear cut totally none fault accident. There is case law that apportions blame to both parties. This would mean your husband and the other party can each recover the percentage apportioned from the other party.

    However this is subject to the exact details of the accident.

    If your husband does not have a witness, the other party will almost certainly state they were indicating to turn right
    • yellow218
    • By yellow218 11th Feb 18, 11:19 AM
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    yellow218
    • #3
    • 11th Feb 18, 11:19 AM
    • #3
    • 11th Feb 18, 11:19 AM
    The reason for the post was not to get other opinions for who is at fault, however I guess that's inevitable on a forum.... yes he was filtering past a queue of stationary traffic. Car pulled out of the queue of traffic onto the other side of the road with the attempt to 'queue jump' four or five cars and carry on her journey down a road to the right. According to the highway code, giving an indication does not give right of way, nor negate the need to check mirrors and blind spot. Had she done so she would have seen hubby on his bike and not pulled out of the traffic. Also, (although i'm sure we all wish we could, or some may have done so), pretty sure queue jumping in a car as she had intended is not compliant with the highway code. Motorbikes filtering past stationary traffic at low speeds is legal in the uk.

    That being said, if it is deemed joint responsibility (or even hubby's fault) then we will accept that, learn from it and move on. It is the current situation of it being unresolved, and the third party not responding to their insurance company, that is frustrating. We would like more clarity as to how and when it will be resolved, and how this impacts how we renew insurance.

    Who decides who is at fault, surely not the insurance companies who have a financial interest in their client not being at fault? Anyone had experience of this?
    • Warwick Hunt
    • By Warwick Hunt 11th Feb 18, 11:28 AM
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    Warwick Hunt
    • #4
    • 11th Feb 18, 11:28 AM
    • #4
    • 11th Feb 18, 11:28 AM
    He was filtering, has the car turned right across his path or has he over taken a vehicle turning right?
    • yellow218
    • By yellow218 11th Feb 18, 11:34 AM
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    yellow218
    • #5
    • 11th Feb 18, 11:34 AM
    • #5
    • 11th Feb 18, 11:34 AM
    Warwick. Hubby was filtering past a queue of traffic. Car was in the queue of traffic, she intended to move out (onto the other side of road) to skip four or five cars, and then to turn right. She hit hubby as he was filtering past whilst she was in the queue of traffic and pulled out into his path.
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 11th Feb 18, 11:38 AM
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    glentoran99
    • #6
    • 11th Feb 18, 11:38 AM
    • #6
    • 11th Feb 18, 11:38 AM
    I assume your husband was filtering along the outside of traffic and the third party turned right across your husband.

    If this is the case it is not neccessarily a clear cut totally none fault accident. There is case law that apportions blame to both parties. This would mean your husband and the other party can each recover the percentage apportioned from the other party.

    However this is subject to the exact details of the accident.

    If your husband does not have a witness, the other party will almost certainly state they were indicating to turn right
    Originally posted by dacouch
    In 2006, a judge ruled in the case of Davis vs Shrogin that, “a filtering motorcyclist passing stationary or very slow-moving traffic could not be to blame if a collision occurred if the rider had no chance to take avoiding action.”
    • Warwick Hunt
    • By Warwick Hunt 11th Feb 18, 11:48 AM
    • 1,071 Posts
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    Warwick Hunt
    • #7
    • 11th Feb 18, 11:48 AM
    • #7
    • 11th Feb 18, 11:48 AM
    In 2006, a judge ruled in the case of Davis vs Shrogin that, “a filtering motorcyclist passing stationary or very slow-moving traffic could not be to blame if a collision occurred if the rider had no chance to take avoiding action.”
    Originally posted by glentoran99
    And in 2007 a judge ruled against the motor cyclist. Farley v Buckley.
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 11th Feb 18, 11:51 AM
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    glentoran99
    • #8
    • 11th Feb 18, 11:51 AM
    • #8
    • 11th Feb 18, 11:51 AM
    And in 2007 a judge ruled against the motor cyclist. Farley v Buckley.
    Originally posted by Warwick Hunt


    totally different situation to the one described by the OP, the one you mentioned was not filtering through stationary or slow moving traffic, instead impatiently sped passed a lorry trying to turn
    Last edited by glentoran99; 11-02-2018 at 11:53 AM.
    • yellow218
    • By yellow218 11th Feb 18, 11:52 AM
    • 80 Posts
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    yellow218
    • #9
    • 11th Feb 18, 11:52 AM
    • #9
    • 11th Feb 18, 11:52 AM
    So it looks like it could go either way then.

    And I guess you!!!8217;ve answered my other question as to who decides: a judge.

    This could take a while then I guess. Does that mean we have to stick with the current insurers, or can we move at renewal if we find a better quote elsewhere?
    • ratrace
    • By ratrace 11th Feb 18, 11:55 AM
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    ratrace
    As a keen off road rider i highly recommend that your OH invests in a dash/helmet camera that can be mounted on his helmet such as a go pro etc....

    Its pretty much normal to have one now, as there are so many bad/impatient drivers out there some insurance companys even offer a discount i you have one


    People are just in an unnecessary rush to get to the next traffic light, I see this all the time and it is totally unnecessary


    I dont know who was in the right or wrong in your case but what I would say is that once the accident occurred she had to wait at the scene anyway for a while so what was the point in trying to save a few mins queue jumping


    there is a chap on YouTube I follow who has some great videos about bike and he also has a great camera setup, show your hubby his channel he will really like it if he is into bikes its


    https://www.youtube.com/user/TheMissendenFlyer/videos


    hope this helps
    People are caught up in an egotistic artificial rat race to display a false image to society. We want the biggest house, fanciest car, and we don't mind paying the sky high mortgage to put up that show. We sacrifice our biggest assets our health and time, We feel happy when we see people look up to us and see how successful we are”

    Rat Race
    • yellow218
    • By yellow218 11th Feb 18, 11:55 AM
    • 80 Posts
    • 115 Thanks
    yellow218
    In 2006, a judge ruled in the case of Davis vs Shrogin that, “a filtering motorcyclist passing stationary or very slow-moving traffic could not be to blame if a collision occurred if the rider had no chance to take avoiding action.”
    Originally posted by glentoran99
    Thanks. Hubby had no chance to avoid it. He was hit by the front drivers side wing of the car. He was well over half way in passing her when she pulled out. Car basically came at him sideways. If he had known it was going to happen he could have accelerated away quickly, but her timing of pulling out meant he didn’t know it was happening until he was hit.
    • yellow218
    • By yellow218 11th Feb 18, 11:57 AM
    • 80 Posts
    • 115 Thanks
    yellow218
    As a keen off road rider i highly recommend that your OH invests in a dash/helmet camera that can be mounted on his helmet such as a go pro etc....

    Its pretty much normal to have one now, as there are so many bad/impatient drivers out there some insurance companys even offer a discount i you have one


    People are just in an unnecessary rush to get to the next traffic light, I see this all the time and it is totally unnecessary


    I dont know who was in the right or wrong in your case but what I would say is that once the accident occurred she had to wait at the scene anyway for a while so what was the point in trying to save a few mins queue jumping


    there is a chap on YouTube I follow who has some great videos about bike and he also has a great camera setup, show your hubby his channel he will really like it if he is into bikes its


    https://www.youtube.com/user/TheMissendenFlyer/videos


    hope this helps
    Originally posted by ratrace
    Funnily enough, he ordered one the night of the accident. He’s confident that had he had a camera on, there would be no dispute.
    • Warwick Hunt
    • By Warwick Hunt 11th Feb 18, 11:57 AM
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    • 515 Thanks
    Warwick Hunt
    totally different situation to the one described by the OP, the one you mentioned was not filtering through stationary or slow moving traffic, instead impatiently sped passed a lorry trying to turn
    Originally posted by glentoran99
    Where in your case the motorcyclist was patiently overtaking at 45 mph.
    • ratrace
    • By ratrace 11th Feb 18, 12:03 PM
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    • 353 Thanks
    ratrace
    Funnily enough, he ordered one the night of the accident. He’s confident that had he had a camera on, there would be no dispute.
    Originally posted by yellow218
    Always the case, i have been telling friends and family for a while to get a camera as they always ask about mine when they get in my car but no one has bought one yet, but a few months a go one of them was involved in a bump and went to halfords to go buy one that very same day

    show that channal to your hubby he will really enjoy them vids
    People are caught up in an egotistic artificial rat race to display a false image to society. We want the biggest house, fanciest car, and we don't mind paying the sky high mortgage to put up that show. We sacrifice our biggest assets our health and time, We feel happy when we see people look up to us and see how successful we are”

    Rat Race
    • yellow218
    • By yellow218 11th Feb 18, 12:05 PM
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    • 115 Thanks
    yellow218
    Not sure either of those examples correlate to what happened to hubby. He was going 5-10 mph past a queue of stationary traffic.
    • dacouch
    • By dacouch 11th Feb 18, 1:02 PM
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    dacouch
    Not sure either of those examples correlate to what happened to hubby. He was going 5-10 mph past a queue of stationary traffic.
    Originally posted by yellow218
    There are plenty of more recent cases.

    Bear in mind that a court of law does not rule solely on what the Highway Code states, it takes into account the specifics of the case in front of them along with the Highway Code and importantly refers to past relevant case law examples.

    There is no way to force the driver to report the case to her Insurers, however your legal representatives should already beaware that they are legally allowed to take action against the vehicles Insurers themselves.
    • RichardD1970
    • By RichardD1970 11th Feb 18, 1:26 PM
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    RichardD1970
    Not sure either of those examples correlate to what happened to hubby. He was going 5-10 mph past a queue of stationary traffic.
    Originally posted by yellow218
    Probably not, but certain posters on here like to try and pick holes in peoples accounts of events and argue for the sake of it.

    To what end I don't know, maybe it gives them an ego boost, or their lives are so empty it's the only way to get a reaction from people.

    Who knows, but either way it usually ends in a willy waving contest that overtakes the original point of the thread.
    • Tarambor
    • By Tarambor 11th Feb 18, 1:42 PM
    • 2,224 Posts
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    Tarambor
    People are just in an unnecessary rush to get to the next traffic light, I see this all the time and it is totally unnecessary
    Originally posted by ratrace
    I've seen some truly horrendous helmet cam ones of bikers filtering on Youtube. Quite how you think you can filter safely when you're having to turn your handlebars to get past car mirrors is beyond me. And quite clearly one I used to watch a lot has never ever driven a bus or a lorry or he would never ever have done half the stuff he does in London.
    • Richard53
    • By Richard53 11th Feb 18, 1:54 PM
    • 2,612 Posts
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    Richard53
    I've seen some truly horrendous helmet cam ones of bikers filtering on Youtube. Quite how you think you can filter safely when you're having to turn your handlebars to get past car mirrors is beyond me.
    Originally posted by Tarambor
    Search on Youtube for City Madness - a guy on an R1 in Athens. Makes your hair curl.
    An hour alone spells freedom to the slave.
    • ohreally
    • By ohreally 11th Feb 18, 3:37 PM
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    ohreally
    Could this have been avoided if he simply waited in line in the queue or is there something else I'm not getting?
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