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  • FIRST POST
    • StevenB12
    • By StevenB12 10th Feb 18, 4:53 PM
    • 77Posts
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    StevenB12
    Pay Rise / No Contract / Notice?
    • #1
    • 10th Feb 18, 4:53 PM
    Pay Rise / No Contract / Notice? 10th Feb 18 at 4:53 PM
    Hey guys,

    Bit of a triple question this one, first one is on behalf a friend so will try to keep it short. He has asked my boss for a pay rise having been at the company nearly 2 years now and has had a lot more responsibility put on him in that time. Boss basically told him that he is currently (my boss) paying 90 pound a month into his pension and can't give him a pay rise, but he's willing to take him OUT of the pension and give him the 90 pound a month in his pay, so my friend basically has a choice of pay rise but no pension, or pension but no pay rise , does he have anything to stand on here? In terms of being told he will have to leave his pension scheme in order for a pay rise?

    As for my situation. I've been offered a new job that I have decided to take in a months time. I currently don't have a contract but I'm on the books, permanent/full time. I currently don't receive a pension though this employer and I'm just wondering, with having no contract, am I still obligated to give a specific amount of notice period? I'll still give one week regardless, but just trying to cover the angles in case he takes a funny turn over it.

    Thanks for any advice guys, appreciated.
Page 1
    • General Grant
    • By General Grant 10th Feb 18, 5:27 PM
    • 679 Posts
    • 806 Thanks
    General Grant
    • #2
    • 10th Feb 18, 5:27 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Feb 18, 5:27 PM
    Hey guys,

    A Bit of a triple question this one, first one is on behalf a friend so will try to keep it short. He has asked my boss for a pay rise having been at the company nearly 2 years now and has had a lot more responsibility put on him in that time. Boss basically told him that he is currently (my boss) paying 90 pound a month into his pension and can't give him a pay rise, but he's willing to take him OUT of the pension and give him the 90 pound a month in his pay, so my friend basically has a choice of pay rise but no pension, or pension but no pay rise , does he have anything to stand on here? In terms of being told he will have to leave his pension scheme in order for a pay rise? (Has the employer put that in writing? It is not lawful to encourage an employee to opt out.)

    B As for my situation. I've been offered a new job that I have decided to take in a months time. I currently don't have a contract (your contract exists but perhaps you have nothing in writing - did you receive no letter or staff handbook which has any information about notice periods? Written contractual information does not have to be signed by anyone, by the way.) but I'm on the books, permanent/full time. I currently don't receive a pension (If you are full-time then surely you earn enough to have been automatically enrolled into a pension scheme by now. This is not something your employer can choose not to do - they have to enrol you though you can subsequently opt out - unless you are under 22 or over state retirement age) though this employer and I'm just wondering, with having no contract, am I still obligated to give a specific amount of notice period? (Nothing in writing to say otherwise then you are right in thinking that they are entitled to notice of one week - but do check for something written as mentioned earlier) I'll still give one week regardless, but just trying to cover the angles in case he takes a funny turn over it.

    Thanks for any advice guys, appreciated.
    Originally posted by StevenB12
    ........................
    Last edited by General Grant; 10-02-2018 at 5:32 PM.
    • StevenB12
    • By StevenB12 10th Feb 18, 5:32 PM
    • 77 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    StevenB12
    • #3
    • 10th Feb 18, 5:32 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Feb 18, 5:32 PM
    ........................
    Originally posted by General Grant
    For the first one. No. Basically as it stands that what my friend has been told verbally from my boss, he hasn't acted on it yet as he is basically trying to weigh it up on what to do and to find out where he stands as he has said that the contribution he gets from an employer into his pension shouldn't have a direct effect on a pay rise.

    For me. No. My boss is basically self employed and only has me and my friend as full time workers. My friend is in the pension, I'm not. I've had no hand book, no contract, no pension. He told me about a week when I first started that in his words - "You know I have to give you a pension etc, and I have to have you in, in order for you to opt out. If you opt out I'll give you a little extra pay per month". Since that conversation. Still no pension.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 10th Feb 18, 5:39 PM
    • 38,055 Posts
    • 34,551 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    • #4
    • 10th Feb 18, 5:39 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Feb 18, 5:39 PM
    A Good question about whether this 'offer' has been put in writing: offering an inducement to leave auto-enrolment is not supposed to happen. Also if the employer is paying into the pension, the employee should be doing so as well. It could be worth looking at the relative percentages employee and employer are paying in, but honestly if an employer won't offer a payrise then it's time to look elsewhere.

    B It is possible that the OP currently works for a very small employer who has not yet had to auto-enrol, but otherwise working FT would see you in some kind of pension scheme.
    Still knitting!
    Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees,
    1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 2 hats and 1 balaclava for seamen ...
    Current projects: another balaclava, must find a mohair cardigan pattern ...
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 10th Feb 18, 5:44 PM
    • 4,559 Posts
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    TELLIT01
    • #5
    • 10th Feb 18, 5:44 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Feb 18, 5:44 PM
    The OPs friend needs to check that they are at least getting National Living Wage despite not having a payrise. If they aren't then the employer is breaking the law. If they are still receiving over NLW they have no right to a payrise every year irrespective of taking on additional responsibilities.
    There were many people at my last place of work (DWP) who got no rise for several years, and weren't big earners.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 10th Feb 18, 5:44 PM
    • 38,055 Posts
    • 34,551 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    • #6
    • 10th Feb 18, 5:44 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Feb 18, 5:44 PM
    "You know I have to give you a pension etc, and I have to have you in, in order for you to opt out. If you opt out I'll give you a little extra pay per month". Since that conversation. Still no pension.
    Originally posted by StevenB12
    Whoa! That's well dodgy. Like I said, offering an inducement to opt out is just not on.

    Your employer can defer auto-enrolling you for up to three months, how long have you been there?
    Still knitting!
    Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees,
    1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 2 hats and 1 balaclava for seamen ...
    Current projects: another balaclava, must find a mohair cardigan pattern ...
    • StevenB12
    • By StevenB12 10th Feb 18, 5:44 PM
    • 77 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    StevenB12
    • #7
    • 10th Feb 18, 5:44 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Feb 18, 5:44 PM
    A Good question about whether this 'offer' has been put in writing: offering an inducement to leave auto-enrolment is not supposed to happen. Also if the employer is paying into the pension, the employee should be doing so as well. It could be worth looking at the relative percentages employee and employer are paying in, but honestly if an employer won't offer a payrise then it's time to look elsewhere.

    B It is possible that the OP currently works for a very small employer who has not yet had to auto-enrol, but otherwise working FT would see you in some kind of pension scheme.
    Originally posted by Savvy_Sue

    If I'm right, I think my friend pays 30 pound per month into his pension (direct from wages) and boss has said that the percentage that he will have to pay into the pension will go up over the next 4 years, as a yearly rise. I think employer currently pays 3% into pension.

    It is a very,very small company, but my friend had to be auto enrolled into a pension when he started, and as I said that was almost 2 years ago now. I pay into my own pension that I started at the minute, but in a sense as well I'm obviously losing out not having one here, as either way I could of had a pension, or had extra pay per month, and at the minute, getting none.

    This is not the first time my boss has tried to push me and my friend away from the pension. Like I said, he offered me more pay but still hasn't happened. And my friend as offered the same choice when he started, but chose the pension, and is now being turned down for a pay rise because of it.
    • StevenB12
    • By StevenB12 10th Feb 18, 5:45 PM
    • 77 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    StevenB12
    • #8
    • 10th Feb 18, 5:45 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Feb 18, 5:45 PM
    Whoa! That's well dodgy. Like I said, offering an inducement to opt out is just not on.

    Your employer can defer auto-enrolling you for up to three months, how long have you been there?
    Originally posted by Savvy_Sue
    This is my 5 month there now. Started early September last year. So 5 month give or take by the time we get another week or so out the way lol.
    • StevenB12
    • By StevenB12 10th Feb 18, 5:49 PM
    • 77 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    StevenB12
    • #9
    • 10th Feb 18, 5:49 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Feb 18, 5:49 PM
    The OPs friend needs to check that they are at least getting National Living Wage despite not having a payrise. If they aren't then the employer is breaking the law. If they are still receiving over NLW they have no right to a payrise every year irrespective of taking on additional responsibilities.
    There were many people at my last place of work (DWP) who got no rise for several years, and weren't big earners.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    We are both on more than NLW. He is on 10 an hour, I am on 9 an hour. Basically from my friends point of view, and also mine as well to an extent. Our hours are 8-4:30, daily. But we often work over that up until 6/7pm, unpaid, as we don't get overtime etc. Some days we will finish at 3 oclock, but will be paid until 4:30. But our hours of over working outweigh the days that we may have an early finish. I think in 5 months I have finished early twice, and worked late at least 2 days a week with no pay on top of that.
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