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  • FIRST POST
    • damoC
    • By damoC 10th Feb 18, 12:04 PM
    • 40Posts
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    damoC
    Appealing disciplinary?
    • #1
    • 10th Feb 18, 12:04 PM
    Appealing disciplinary? 10th Feb 18 at 12:04 PM
    So long story short I passed my FLT test at work last week and unfortunatley I 'crashed' into some roller doors.
    It was a complete accident. I thought the doors were high enough but didn't account for the forks being raised when backing out of the warehouse(I got in fine). My boss says it's a classic flt driver mistake.

    If I get a disciplinary, would I have reasonable grounds to appeal it as an unfair desicion?
    Since it was a complete accident and I've only been on them for 1 week.
    Cheers
Page 1
    • Ja7188
    • By Ja7188 10th Feb 18, 12:09 PM
    • 77 Posts
    • 61 Thanks
    Ja7188
    • #2
    • 10th Feb 18, 12:09 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Feb 18, 12:09 PM
    Check your contract and/ or company handbook, which should lay out the full disciplinary procedure, including details of any right of appeal you may have. It sounds like you're unlikely to be taken to a disciplinary though as your boss says it's not an uncommon mistake - and I'm assuming no-one was hurt and no major damage was done - so I suspect you'll get a slap on the wrist and an informal warning to be more careful in future.
    • JReacher1
    • By JReacher1 10th Feb 18, 12:10 PM
    • 2,686 Posts
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    JReacher1
    • #3
    • 10th Feb 18, 12:10 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Feb 18, 12:10 PM
    Would it be unfair? You did after all drive into some shutters.

    On the other hand it is unlikely they would waste a lot of money training you and then dismiss you a week after you have passed and even if they did you have got the qualification now and you would easily get another job.
    • damoC
    • By damoC 10th Feb 18, 12:29 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    damoC
    • #4
    • 10th Feb 18, 12:29 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Feb 18, 12:29 PM
    Thanks, I will do. No one was hurt but the bottom panel needs replacing. My boss said it's not uncommon but he also said it would be disciplinary. I've been there for 3 years so I know they won't get rid of me. I can afford to have a disciplinary as my record is squeeky clean but would prefer not to have one.

    @JReacher1 yes I agree and have been beating myself up the second I heard the noise.
    • Ja7188
    • By Ja7188 10th Feb 18, 1:01 PM
    • 77 Posts
    • 61 Thanks
    Ja7188
    • #5
    • 10th Feb 18, 1:01 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Feb 18, 1:01 PM
    OK - so if they're definitely going to discipline you, you need to ask what this will consist of - i.e. verbal warning/ first written warning/ final written warning etc. - and unless what they give you is the last step before dismissal, you may want to consider just sucking it up on the basis that it should expire after a set period of time - this should be laid out in the company handbook.

    If you appeal it, you're probably going to annoy your boss as it will trigger another formal process including further meetings and paperwork to be completed. Given that your boss has reassured you that it's not an uncommon mistake, although he has to discipline you, this suggests that he values you and would probably rather put the incident to bed and move on as quickly as possible.
    • eamon
    • By eamon 10th Feb 18, 1:05 PM
    • 1,578 Posts
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    eamon
    • #6
    • 10th Feb 18, 1:05 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Feb 18, 1:05 PM
    You will be ribbed by your manager and colleages for months to come (and you may get a warning). FLT incidents are very common and most are avoidable. Consider yourself fortunate that nobody was injured etc. What you will do for the future is ensure that when using the FLT that your work area is clear of obstructions (people, goods, fixtures & fittings) and don't forget to look up. Do everything by the book and how you were trained/instructed and you wont go far wrong.
    • ohreally
    • By ohreally 10th Feb 18, 2:46 PM
    • 6,494 Posts
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    ohreally
    • #7
    • 10th Feb 18, 2:46 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Feb 18, 2:46 PM
    You're inquiring about a appealing disciplinary yet to be undertaken!

    You'd be better putting some thought into your case statement ahead of any hearing being convened.

    Have they decided to conduct an investigation first?
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 10th Feb 18, 4:13 PM
    • 10,387 Posts
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    lincroft1710
    • #8
    • 10th Feb 18, 4:13 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Feb 18, 4:13 PM
    Why is it an unfair decision?

    You damaged company property due to your own negligence. A disciplinary would be the right course for your employer.
    • ACG
    • By ACG 10th Feb 18, 4:53 PM
    • 16,329 Posts
    • 8,438 Thanks
    ACG
    • #9
    • 10th Feb 18, 4:53 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Feb 18, 4:53 PM
    A disciplinary does not mean anything will happen.
    I have had 2 in my working career. One I received a warning, the other I argued my case and walked out without a blemish on my file.

    If you have been there for 3 years with no problems and it was just a genuine mistake that many people do I would expect you to get a warning at most. Anything more and they are looking for an excuse to get rid of you.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 10th Feb 18, 5:54 PM
    • 38,063 Posts
    • 34,561 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    Saying "it was a complete accident" doesn't get you anywhere. I mean, who's going to say "I did it on purpose" or "It was nearly finish time and I was in a rush".

    So as suggested, start thinking now about what you're going to say. Maybe describe what happened: "although the forks were raised I was able to drive in without incident. I did not realise that when reversing I would not have sufficient clearance and that I should have lowered the forks. I am very sorry about this, especially as it happened so soon after passing my FLT."
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    • marlot
    • By marlot 10th Feb 18, 6:14 PM
    • 3,274 Posts
    • 2,383 Thanks
    marlot
    ...It was a complete accident...
    Originally posted by damoC
    I suspect that you'll fare better at the disciplinary if you can do a bit more analysis.

    • Express Regret.
    • Accept Responsibility. What did you do/not do. Show that you take your FLT driving seriously.
    • Future Plans. What will you do to ensure it doesn't happen again. After all, if there's a next time, someone might be hurt.
    Hope it goes OK.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 10th Feb 18, 6:33 PM
    • 4,586 Posts
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    TELLIT01
    Thanks, I will do. No one was hurt but the bottom panel needs replacing. My boss said it's not uncommon but he also said it would be disciplinary.
    Originally posted by damoC
    It sounds from your boss's comment that a disciplinary investigation is automatic after an incident such as that, and to be honest it really should be. What happened was basically a lapse in concentration and it could just as easily have been a person stood where you didn't expect them to be.
    I wouldn't expect the outcome to be anything more than a slap on the wrist, again because of your boss's reaction and comment.
    • mariefab
    • By mariefab 10th Feb 18, 6:59 PM
    • 294 Posts
    • 156 Thanks
    mariefab
    Didn't the training you received before you passed your test stress that you should always travel with the forks lowered, but clear of the ground?

    I ask because it's normal for this to be emphasised in any FTL training but your boss says that that this sort of accident isn't uncommon.
    • StevenB12
    • By StevenB12 10th Feb 18, 7:02 PM
    • 77 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    StevenB12
    FLT accidents are very,very common. My last work place you often had to bring in loads lifted high in order to clear other objects that were around, and this could cause very,very close misses with the shutter doors.

    A few people clipped the top of them because some people develop a habit of if you are lifting a load up as you are moving in order to bring it above ground level or to clear other objects, you often forget to check the height that the mast is sitting at, rather than the forks.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 11th Feb 18, 9:50 AM
    • 676 Posts
    • 552 Thanks
    scd3scd4
    How about waiting until something "happens"?


    It maybe just a simple verbal.


    A fair company would consider you were newly qualified I would hope.
    • dickydonkin
    • By dickydonkin 11th Feb 18, 10:44 AM
    • 2,882 Posts
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    dickydonkin
    Why is it an unfair decision?

    You damaged company property due to your own negligence. A disciplinary would be the right course for your employer.
    Originally posted by lincroft1710
    Hopefully you are not an employer or manager.

    Bearing in mind the OP was a rookie fork truck driver, this would have some bearing on the cause of the incident.

    I defy anyone who has just passed their driving test to state they never made a mistake in their first few months of driving. I certainly did!

    I would suggest the incident was not due to negligence, but inexperience. The OP would certainly have learned a lesson.

    Maybe the employer could install air doors that lift and lower when a flat requires access or instruct staff that doors should either be fully raised or closed to avoid a repeat incident.

    These things happen and it would be a harsh decision to discipline someone for an incident that was neither malicious or intentional.
    • Takeaway_Addict
    • By Takeaway_Addict 11th Feb 18, 3:38 PM
    • 5,735 Posts
    • 6,557 Thanks
    Takeaway_Addict
    Thanks, I will do. No one was hurt but the bottom panel needs replacing. My boss said it's not uncommon but he also said it would be disciplinary. I've been there for 3 years so I know they won't get rid of me. I can afford to have a disciplinary as my record is squeeky clean but would prefer not to have one.

    @JReacher1 yes I agree and have been beating myself up the second I heard the noise.
    Originally posted by damoC
    They need to discipline you based on the point that if they don't and you screw up again it makes it more difficult to sack you.

    A mistake like that as a one off employers on the whole can accept....repeated !!!! ups.....well.
    Don't trust a forum for advice. Get proper paid advice. Any advice given should always be checked
    • Takeaway_Addict
    • By Takeaway_Addict 11th Feb 18, 3:40 PM
    • 5,735 Posts
    • 6,557 Thanks
    Takeaway_Addict
    Hopefully you are not an employer or manager.

    Bearing in mind the OP was a rookie fork truck driver, this would have some bearing on the cause of the incident.

    I defy anyone who has just passed their driving test to state they never made a mistake in their first few months of driving. I certainly did!

    I would suggest the incident was not due to negligence, but inexperience. The OP would certainly have learned a lesson.

    Maybe the employer could install air doors that lift and lower when a flat requires access or instruct staff that doors should either be fully raised or closed to avoid a repeat incident.

    These things happen and it would be a harsh decision to discipline someone for an incident that was neither malicious or intentional.
    Originally posted by dickydonkin
    I normally agree with you but the OP clearly was negligent, being a new FLT driver doesn't have any bearing on it. If someone crashed a car a day after passing their test due to negiligence the effect wouldn't be more leniant due to their newness.
    Don't trust a forum for advice. Get proper paid advice. Any advice given should always be checked
    • dickydonkin
    • By dickydonkin 11th Feb 18, 4:15 PM
    • 2,882 Posts
    • 2,900 Thanks
    dickydonkin
    I normally agree with you but the OP clearly was negligent, being a new FLT driver doesn't have any bearing on it. If someone crashed a car a day after passing their test due to negiligence the effect wouldn't be more leniant due to their newness.
    Originally posted by Takeaway_Addict
    Fair enough.....let’s just agree to disagree.

    One of the telling aspects however, was the apparent frequency of these incidents.

    Now that could suggest from an investigative perspective that there is something other than human factors having a contributory element.

    It could be the physical features of the area the incidents occur such as layout, congested routings, lighting, , the quality of training ( some fork truck drivers are trained in house and may not be RTTIB accredited), lack of attention caused by tiredness or long working hours.

    Where I was responsible for H&S at a former workplace, we had one guy who was having a lot of similar incidents on his FLT and the damage to plant and stock was becoming an issue.

    Disciplining the guy would be a futile exercise if there was another factor causing these frequent events.

    He was deemed ‘accident prone’ ‘clumsy’ and many other derogatory names by management and colleagues.

    Having discussed the problem with HR, it was decided that ALL flt drivers should have to undergo a dvla type medical.

    It turned out the guy in question had an eye problem where he couldn’t gauge distance. Not only that, many of his colleagues were discovered to have problems such as high blood pressure and other medical issues that could be addressed.

    Accidents are not caused by one single failure.....there will be other factors that will have a bearing on the cause.....unfortunately, it is too easy to blame an individual.
    • Lioness Twinkletoes
    • By Lioness Twinkletoes 11th Feb 18, 5:13 PM
    • 1,194 Posts
    • 4,205 Thanks
    Lioness Twinkletoes
    So long story short I passed my FLT test at work last week and unfortunatley I 'crashed' into some roller doors.
    It was a complete accident. I thought the doors were high enough but didn't account for the forks being raised when backing out of the warehouse(I got in fine). My boss says it's a classic flt driver mistake.

    If I get a disciplinary, would I have reasonable grounds to appeal it as an unfair desicion?
    Since it was a complete accident and I've only been on them for 1 week.
    Cheers
    Originally posted by damoC
    No. You shouldn't be driving with the forks raised.
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