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    • Sterowley
    • By Sterowley 10th Feb 18, 11:43 AM
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    Sterowley
    Mileage charges on contract car
    • #1
    • 10th Feb 18, 11:43 AM
    Mileage charges on contract car 10th Feb 18 at 11:43 AM
    Hi,
    I bought a car on finance with VW in 2015, which had an annual mileage limit. However I was told that if I handed the car back before my contract ended (either exchange or give the car back and walk away) then the mileage limit would not apply and I would not incur any additional charge. However after speaking to them today, they tell me that according to an FCA change, this no longer stands and I am liable to the additional mileage charges. Please can you confirm if this is the case and if it applies to contracts taken out before the change was made.

    Thanks in advance
Page 1
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 10th Feb 18, 11:56 AM
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    motorguy
    • #2
    • 10th Feb 18, 11:56 AM
    • #2
    • 10th Feb 18, 11:56 AM
    Hi,
    I bought a car on finance with VW in 2015, which had an annual mileage limit. However I was told that if I handed the car back before my contract ended (either exchange or give the car back and walk away) then the mileage limit would not apply and I would not incur any additional charge. However after speaking to them today, they tell me that according to an FCA change, this no longer stands and I am liable to the additional mileage charges. Please can you confirm if this is the case and if it applies to contracts taken out before the change was made.

    Thanks in advance
    Originally posted by Sterowley
    If its a PCP deal there is no "FCA change" relating to this, however finance companies will pursue you for the excess with various levels of threats, etc. If you're thick skinned you can probably sit it out as it will never get to court, however they will persist.

    What mileage were you contracted for, and what miles have you done?
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • spiro
    • By spiro 10th Feb 18, 11:58 AM
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    spiro
    • #3
    • 10th Feb 18, 11:58 AM
    • #3
    • 10th Feb 18, 11:58 AM
    The issue of mileage charges when you hand the car back before the end of the term has not been resolved. On the BBC the other week it was said this will only be sorted out after a case ends up in court. The loan companies are claiming mileage falls under fair wear and tear which they can charge you for.
    If you could get away with it everyone would get a car on 5k miles pa, drive 15k pa and hand the car back early.
    IT Consultant in the utilities industry specialising in the retail electricity market.

    4 Credit Card and 1 Loan PPI claims settled for £26k, 1 rejected (Opus).
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 10th Feb 18, 12:16 PM
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    motorguy
    • #4
    • 10th Feb 18, 12:16 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Feb 18, 12:16 PM
    The issue of mileage charges when you hand the car back before the end of the term has not been resolved. On the BBC the other week it was said this will only be sorted out after a case ends up in court. The loan companies are claiming mileage falls under fair wear and tear which they can charge you for.
    If you could get away with it everyone would get a car on 5k miles pa, drive 15k pa and hand the car back early.
    Originally posted by spiro
    Was that Captain Obvious they were interviewing?

    However its no coincidence that the finance companies HAVENT taken it to court in the 30+ years PCP deals have been in existence.

    They wont win it and they know it.

    Whilst mileage may impact wear and tear (which they can charge for) they cant simply apply a pence per mile rate and say that there is a linear relationship to wear and tear.

    There are guidelines that they follow by BVRLA. Mileage isnt even in the guidelines.
    Last edited by motorguy; 10-02-2018 at 12:29 PM.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 10th Feb 18, 2:49 PM
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    neilmcl
    • #5
    • 10th Feb 18, 2:49 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Feb 18, 2:49 PM
    Was that Captain Obvious they were interviewing?

    However its no coincidence that the finance companies HAVENT taken it to court in the 30+ years PCP deals have been in existence.

    They wont win it and they know it.


    Whilst mileage may impact wear and tear (which they can charge for) they cant simply apply a pence per mile rate and say that there is a linear relationship to wear and tear.

    There are guidelines that they follow by BVRLA. Mileage isnt even in the guidelines.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    To be more accurate nobody, the finance companies nor customers have taken this as far as a higher court for a decision that'll form precedent. We don't really know if or how many times the finance co. have taken action in a county court, although evidence posted online would suggest they generally don't get that far.
    • Sterowley
    • By Sterowley 10th Feb 18, 3:32 PM
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    Sterowley
    • #6
    • 10th Feb 18, 3:32 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Feb 18, 3:32 PM
    Thanks for the info, when I took the finance out in 2015 VW said it can be handed back after half way through the term and mileage wouldn’t matter but when I spoke to them today they told me of this FCA change that can apply to old T&C’s. I have done about 9000 extra miles than contracted at this stage which is 6p a mile extra. Of course I wouldn’t have done this if I was told about this apparent FCA change!
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 10th Feb 18, 3:48 PM
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    motorguy
    • #7
    • 10th Feb 18, 3:48 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Feb 18, 3:48 PM
    To be more accurate nobody, the finance companies nor customers have taken this as far as a higher court for a decision that'll form precedent. We don't really know if or how many times the finance co. have taken action in a county court, although evidence posted online would suggest they generally don't get that far.
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    Why would a customer take it to court? You dont go to court to stop people trying to claim money off you.

    They postulate heavily and make threats but never take it to court because they know its unwinable. Anyone who has paid has done so because they didnt know better or they just gave in to the pressure.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 10th Feb 18, 3:52 PM
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    motorguy
    • #8
    • 10th Feb 18, 3:52 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Feb 18, 3:52 PM
    Thanks for the info, when I took the finance out in 2015 VW said it can be handed back after half way through the term and mileage wouldn’t matter but when I spoke to them today they told me of this FCA change that can apply to old T&C’s. I have done about 9000 extra miles than contracted at this stage which is 6p a mile extra. Of course I wouldn’t have done this if I was told about this apparent FCA change!
    Originally posted by Sterowley
    Be aware

    (a) its not half way through the agreement, its once 50% has been paid. This will be much closer to the end of term than 50%.
    (b) there will be specific figures in your PCP agreement talking about your rights to Voluntary Terminate and the 50% marker and amount.
    (c) You need to have not missed ANY payments or late payments because that can nullify your right to VT
    (d) There is no FCA change - its a rouse to get you to pay.
    (e) Did i mention that there is no FCA change?

    DO NOT SIGN any paperwork relating to a voluntary termination as it usually includes weasel wording giving them explicit rights to pursue you for excess mileage.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 10th Feb 18, 5:31 PM
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    neilmcl
    • #9
    • 10th Feb 18, 5:31 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Feb 18, 5:31 PM
    Why would a customer take it to court? You dont go to court to stop people trying to claim money off you.

    They postulate heavily and make threats but never take it to court because they know its unwinable. Anyone who has paid has done so because they didnt know better or they just gave in to the pressure.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    But you could take it to Appeal an earlier decision, I did say "higher courts" after all.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 10th Feb 18, 6:13 PM
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    motorguy
    But you could take it to Appeal an earlier decision, I did say "higher courts" after all.
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    But there'll never be a court case that you'll have lost in the first place because the finance companies have never taken it to court.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 10th Feb 18, 8:04 PM
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    neilmcl
    But there'll never be a court case that you'll have lost in the first place because the finance companies have never taken it to court.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    Again, how would you know?

    Yes, I agree that the evidence online, or lack off may suggest this is this case but it certainly isn't definitive.
    • Sterowley
    • By Sterowley 12th Feb 18, 1:15 PM
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    Sterowley
    Yes that’s right it’s 50% which is fine, I haven’t missed any payment either. I will be at 50% in a few months time so I will go back to them for the paperwork for VT and check the wording, knowing there is no FCA change!
    Thanks a lot for your help on this it’s eased some fears they obviously tried to put on me!!
    • molerat
    • By molerat 12th Feb 18, 1:21 PM
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    molerat
    There is no paperwork for a VT. You simply write and tell them you are VTing the car. You do not sign anything they give you. How much is the car worth against the finance settlement amount ?
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk/donations.html
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 12th Feb 18, 6:20 PM
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    motorguy
    Again, how would you know?

    Yes, I agree that the evidence online, or lack off may suggest this is this case but it certainly isn't definitive.
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    We would know because it would be sited as case law and they would simply take all cases to court on the back of that.

    Dont underestimate how much VTing !!!!es finance companies off. Its wholly a thorn in their side and the mere fact that they HAVENT taken anyone to court shows they know they've no mission of winning. IF they HAD taken anyone to court it would be well advertised in the media / used by them.
    Last edited by motorguy; 12-02-2018 at 6:25 PM.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 12th Feb 18, 8:03 PM
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    neilmcl
    We would know because it would be sited as case law and they would simply take all cases to court on the back of that.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    You do understand that these cases would be heard at the County Court level in the first instance, "Case law", or rather precedent, is set at the higher courts, which I've already mentioned. So I say again you or I simply don't know whether a finance co. has sought a county court action in the past or simply given up once the debt collectors have had no joy.
    Last edited by neilmcl; 12-02-2018 at 8:08 PM.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 13th Feb 18, 9:35 AM
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    motorguy
    You do understand that these cases would be heard at the County Court level in the first instance, "Case law", or rather precedent, is set at the higher courts, which I've already mentioned. So I say again you or I simply don't know whether a finance co. has sought a county court action in the past or simply given up once the debt collectors have had no joy.
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    And the finance companies rely on this sort of unsubstantiated hearsay and internet myth to keep the fear of god in people that they are chasing for money they are not obliged to pay.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 13th Feb 18, 10:23 AM
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    neilmcl
    And the finance companies rely on this sort of unsubstantiated hearsay and internet myth to keep the fear of god in people that they are chasing for money they are not obliged to pay.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    Mate, you assertion that the finance co's have never taken anyone to court is as "unsubstantiated" as mine. The fact is we just don't know, and whilst I agree the odds they do so is extremely high, I (nor you) have no actual evidence to suggest that a single company hasn't in the past.

    I'm bored of this now so if you want the final word have at it
    Last edited by neilmcl; 13-02-2018 at 11:24 AM.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 13th Feb 18, 11:15 AM
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    AdrianC
    I have done about 9000 extra miles than contracted at this stage which is 6p a mile extra. Of course I wouldn’t have done this if I was told about this apparent FCA change!
    Originally posted by Sterowley
    So £540 extra. You don't say when in 2015 you took out the PCP, but let's assume it's 2.5yrs - so £18/month.

    Would taking out a PCP with the correct mileage allowance have been more expensive than that?

    Or would you simply have driven the car so much less...?
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 13th Feb 18, 12:36 PM
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    motorguy
    Mate, you assertion that the finance co's have never taken anyone to court is as "unsubstantiated" as mine. The fact is we just don't know, and whilst I agree the odds they do so is extremely high, I (nor you) have no actual evidence to suggest that a single company hasn't in the past.

    I'm bored of this now so if you want the final word have at it
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    "Mate". The onus is on you to prove it has happened, not on me to prove it hasnt.

    For example, i would be very confident that the Loch Ness monster doesnt exist. Some people have asserted that it does. The burden of proof would of course lie with them to prove that, not with me to prove otherwise. Likewise that doesnt make it as likely to exist as not exist.

    If you havent any evidence to prove it has happened, you're just perpetuating an internet myth, frankly.
    Last edited by motorguy; 13-02-2018 at 1:01 PM.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 13th Feb 18, 4:07 PM
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    neilmcl
    "Mate". The onus is on you to prove it has happened, not on me to prove it hasnt.

    For example, i would be very confident that the Loch Ness monster doesnt exist. Some people have asserted that it does. The burden of proof would of course lie with them to prove that, not with me to prove otherwise. Likewise that doesnt make it as likely to exist as not exist.

    If you havent any evidence to prove it has happened, you're just perpetuating an internet myth, frankly.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    http://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/money-debt/consumer-credit-act/99722-bmw-financial-services-voluntary-termination-excess-mileage/page2 - post #26 (took me approx 3 secs to find that).
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