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  • FIRST POST
    • Jaydenholt123
    • By Jaydenholt123 9th Feb 18, 12:15 PM
    • 1Posts
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    Jaydenholt123
    Leaving site on Lunch breaks
    • #1
    • 9th Feb 18, 12:15 PM
    Leaving site on Lunch breaks 9th Feb 18 at 12:15 PM
    At my place of employment I am a first aider and I am being told that as they pay me extra (£50) money I am not allowed to leave site when on the first aid rota? Is this right? Can they pay me more but take away my right to leave the building on my lunch break?
Page 1
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 9th Feb 18, 12:20 PM
    • 19,432 Posts
    • 15,116 Thanks
    agrinnall
    • #2
    • 9th Feb 18, 12:20 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Feb 18, 12:20 PM
    What makes you think you have a 'right' to leave the building at all?
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 9th Feb 18, 12:23 PM
    • 30,939 Posts
    • 19,563 Thanks
    DCFC79
    • #3
    • 9th Feb 18, 12:23 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Feb 18, 12:23 PM
    Is your lunch break unpaid or paid ?
    Can people stop loaning money/being a guarator to family/friends, it rarely ends well and you lose out as your money is gone or you get shafted with being a guarantor.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 9th Feb 18, 12:49 PM
    • 4,552 Posts
    • 7,612 Thanks
    sangie595
    • #4
    • 9th Feb 18, 12:49 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Feb 18, 12:49 PM
    At my place of employment I am a first aider and I am being told that as they pay me extra (£50) money I am not allowed to leave site when on the first aid rota? Is this right? Can they pay me more but take away my right to leave the building on my lunch break?
    Originally posted by Jaydenholt123
    Yes they can. A first aider who isn't present is of no use whatsoever. If you want to go your own way, then you may resign as a first aider, and they can pay someone else for the responsibility.

    There is no right to leave the building anyway.
    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 9th Feb 18, 12:54 PM
    • 3,336 Posts
    • 8,086 Thanks
    gettingtheresometime
    • #5
    • 9th Feb 18, 12:54 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Feb 18, 12:54 PM
    At my place of employment I am a first aider and I am being told that as they pay me extra (£50) money I am not allowed to leave site when on the first aid rota? Is this right? Can they pay me more but take away my right to leave the building on my lunch break?
    Originally posted by Jaydenholt123


    Presumably every other first aider has this condition as well.
    Lloyds OD / Natwest OD / PO CC / Wescott / Argos Card cleared thanks to the 1 debt v 100 day challenge


    Next on the list - JD Williams
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 9th Feb 18, 1:23 PM
    • 4,894 Posts
    • 7,847 Thanks
    Gavin83
    • #6
    • 9th Feb 18, 1:23 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Feb 18, 1:23 PM
    There is no right to leave the building anyway.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    I really don't see how the company has a right to dictate where you are during a period they don't pay you for. Next you'll be telling me they've the right to tell you at what time you're allowed to go shopping in the evenings and where you can spend your weekends.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 9th Feb 18, 1:30 PM
    • 4,586 Posts
    • 4,848 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    • #7
    • 9th Feb 18, 1:30 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Feb 18, 1:30 PM

    There is no right to leave the building anyway.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    If you are not paid for the lunch break what right does the employer have to tell you what to do with that time, or where to spend it?
    • CurlySue2017
    • By CurlySue2017 9th Feb 18, 1:48 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 71 Thanks
    CurlySue2017
    • #8
    • 9th Feb 18, 1:48 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Feb 18, 1:48 PM
    What makes you think you have a 'right' to leave the building at all?
    Originally posted by agrinnall
    LOL are you locked in at work then?

    If they are not paid (which is not clear yet) then they can leave if they like.
    • Cheeky_Monkey
    • By Cheeky_Monkey 9th Feb 18, 1:51 PM
    • 1,535 Posts
    • 3,112 Thanks
    Cheeky_Monkey
    • #9
    • 9th Feb 18, 1:51 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Feb 18, 1:51 PM
    But the OP is being paid for it .... an extra £50 to be on-site as per the rota.
    I used to be indecisive - now I'm not so sure
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 9th Feb 18, 2:29 PM
    • 4,552 Posts
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    sangie595
    I suggest everyone reread the OP. The OP is being paid for the "inconvenience" of being a first aider. Therefore, as I said, they are welcome to hand back the money and resign as a first aider. But they can't have it both ways. The need for a first aider on the premises isn't something that will diminish if they happen to be on a lunch break and somewhere else; and you can't instruct employees to avoid accidents when the first aider is on a lunch break!

    So it was very clear that they are being paid for this responsibility - whether they get paid lunch breaks is therefore entirely irrelevant.

    And actually, on a very separate basis, it is in fact quite lawful to tell employees that they cannot leave the premises during breaks, paid or not. Or, to be more precise, it is not unlawful. There are circumstances where employers must do this, for security or other reasons. Being entitled to a break is what the law says, not being entitled to take that break wherever you want to take it. The law is clear that the break must be away from your desk or workstation - not away from the premises.

    So LOL, yes you can be locked in at work, and the employer has every right to tell you that you can't leave the premises. But that is irrelevant to the OP, because that isn't the issue.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 9th Feb 18, 2:31 PM
    • 4,552 Posts
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    sangie595
    I really don't see how the company has a right to dictate where you are during a period they don't pay you for. Next you'll be telling me they've the right to tell you at what time you're allowed to go shopping in the evenings and where you can spend your weekends.
    Originally posted by Gavin83
    No I won't be telling you that. But I am telling you that the law allows an employer to refuse workers the right to leave the premises during breaks. Your opinion on that matter is irrelevant.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 9th Feb 18, 2:35 PM
    • 4,552 Posts
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    sangie595
    If you are not paid for the lunch break what right does the employer have to tell you what to do with that time, or where to spend it?
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    Paid or not you are still under the control of the employer during that period. As I have said - there is nothing stopping the employer from doing so. And that's kind of fortunate too, because if you happen to have an accident during yur break then you'd want the employer to be responsible for it, wouldn't you? Whether or not you were paid? And I assume you'd kind of also like the qualified first aider to help you too? The first aider who is paid for this responsibility. This arrangement is commonplace, and the fact is that the OP can resign and give up the money any time they like.
    • CurlySue2017
    • By CurlySue2017 9th Feb 18, 2:38 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 71 Thanks
    CurlySue2017
    So LOL, yes you can be locked in at work, and the employer has every right to tell you that you can't leave the premises. But that is irrelevant to the OP, because that isn't the issue.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    Can you link to the relevant law for this? I would be very interested to see it.
    • ScarletMarble
    • By ScarletMarble 9th Feb 18, 3:00 PM
    • 7,525 Posts
    • 13,860 Thanks
    ScarletMarble
    I think if you are ever called to do first aid - on another colleague, customer (if working in a shop) or visitor during your lunch, most decent managers will let you have another 20 mins later in the day to catch up on missed lunch breaks.

    If someone needs first aid attention and you are five mins from finishing work, do you say, I can't do it as I'm going home?

    I remember a few years ago, a customer fell ill at my work. One of the two first aider colleagues stayed behind to help him and she didn't clock out until 40 mins after her contractual finish time. Think the following day she was at work, she started 40 mins later as no over time going.
    • ReadingTim
    • By ReadingTim 9th Feb 18, 3:27 PM
    • 2,392 Posts
    • 3,400 Thanks
    ReadingTim
    You're being paid extra because you're required to stay on the premises during rota'd on lunch breaks. Which I assume isn't every lunch break of every day of every week. By taking the money, you're agreeing to this.

    Alternatively, if you'd like to leave the premises each and every lunch break, stop being a first aider. You'll lose the additional pay though.

    You can't have it both ways, so take your pick. If you don't like the outcome, you only have yourself to blame.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 9th Feb 18, 4:12 PM
    • 4,552 Posts
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    sangie595
    Can you link to the relevant law for this? I would be very interested to see it.
    Originally posted by CurlySue2017
    Read what I said! The law is very clear. You are entitled to a break, which must be a minimum of 20 minutes if you work six hours or more, and that break, which does not have to be paid must be away from your desk or workstation. That is what the law says. It is all the law says. There is no law that says that the employer must allow you to leave the premises. Until such a law is enacted, it is perfectly permissible for an employer to refuse to allow someone to leave the premises for their break. There is also no law that says that an employer must allow you to leave the premises either! In the absence of such laws, this is a contractual matter between the employee and employer. Try bringing a tribunal claim for the right to leave the premises, and see how far anyone gets....

    Which is irrelevant because none of that has anything to do with the OP.
    • CurlySue2017
    • By CurlySue2017 9th Feb 18, 4:22 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 71 Thanks
    CurlySue2017
    Read what I said! The law is very clear. You are entitled to a break, which must be a minimum of 20 minutes if you work six hours or more, and that break, which does not have to be paid must be away from your desk or workstation. That is what the law says. It is all the law says. There is no law that says that the employer must allow you to leave the premises. Until such a law is enacted, it is perfectly permissible for an employer to refuse to allow someone to leave the premises for their break. There is also no law that says that an employer must allow you to leave the premises either! In the absence of such laws, this is a contractual matter between the employee and employer. Try bringing a tribunal claim for the right to leave the premises, and see how far anyone gets....

    Which is irrelevant because none of that has anything to do with the OP.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    I read what you said but this is a forum where anyone can say anything, therefore a link to back up your opinion would be useful for anyone wishing to clarify that what you are saying is correct.

    (Text removed by MSE Forum Team)
    Last edited by MSE ForumTeam5; 10-02-2018 at 10:00 AM.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 9th Feb 18, 4:28 PM
    • 4,586 Posts
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    TELLIT01
    I read what you said but this is a forum where anyone can say anything, therefore a link to back up your opinion would be useful for anyone wishing to clarify that what you are saying is correct.
    Originally posted by CurlySue2017
    I agree CurlySue. I've just found this on a site about safety at work and it totally contradicts sangies claim.
    "The Working Time Regulations stipulate that if you are over 18, you are entitled to a 20 minute rest break where your daily working time is more than 6 hours per day and, under normal circumstances, under the legislation you are absolutely entitled to take that rest break wherever you want to take it which includes leaving the premises"
    • Madbags
    • By Madbags 9th Feb 18, 4:34 PM
    • 194 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    Madbags
    "Under normal circumstances"

    I think being paid £50 extra to be a first aider which requires you to stay on site comes under not normal circumstances.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 9th Feb 18, 5:02 PM
    • 4,552 Posts
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    sangie595
    I agree CurlySue. I've just found this on a site about safety at work and it totally contradicts sangies claim.
    "The Working Time Regulations stipulate that if you are over 18, you are entitled to a 20 minute rest break where your daily working time is more than 6 hours per day and, under normal circumstances, under the legislation you are absolutely entitled to take that rest break wherever you want to take it which includes leaving the premises"
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    Please find the actual law that says this - not a link to an opinion. What you agree with is irrelevant. I have stated the law as it stands. There is nothing in the law that says you can, or can't, leave the premises. Whether you or Curly Sue like it is irrelevant, and I'm perfectly fine with her ignoring me. Really, I'm supposed to care?

    Where do the Working Time Regulations say this? Just in case you'd like to make it easier to find, I've provided a link here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/1833/regulation/12/made

    Oh look at that. It says exactly what I said it says. Can't see the bit that says you can spend it anywhere you like. Happy for you or CurlySue to provide me with that link.
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