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    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 7th Feb 18, 11:14 PM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    Cataract treatment - can it really be true?
    • #1
    • 7th Feb 18, 11:14 PM
    Cataract treatment - can it really be true? 7th Feb 18 at 11:14 PM
    A friend of mine that also moved to Wales recently has been told (via an optician locally - not word of mouth from someone-in-the-street) that she will be made to wait one YEAR between the first eye being done and the second one being done.

    The optician said the reason is the powers-that-be in the Welsh NHS are refusing to take on people for those jobs if they don't speak Welsh and the posts are being left vacant!!!!!!!!!

    I've heard of someone other than the best person for the job being taken on. I've heard of the best person for the job being taken on and made to agree they will learn Welsh (in, say, 2 years).

    I've not heard the situation is as best as refusing to take on anyone suitable for these jobs if they can't find a Welsh speaker and then imposing a year wait on patients because of the resultant lack of staff (instead of the normal 3? months wait between eyes).

    Is that really true? - though I know it is an optician that said it ....so one must assume it is the truth.

    Has anyone any evidence of these posts being left unfilled for this "reason"?

    Has anyone been made to wait for more than 3 months to get their second eye done?
    Last edited by moneyistooshorttomention; 07-02-2018 at 11:17 PM.
    NOT dancing to anyone else's tune.

    It's the 21st century now....
Page 3
    • ripplyuk
    • By ripplyuk 10th Feb 18, 12:44 PM
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    ripplyuk
    My parents had to have both eyes done and there was a (think it was short-lived??) attempt to lie to my mother and tell her she "didnt need the second eye done after all". At which point my quiet little mother got informed by me in no uncertain terms that they were lying to her and she had the proof they'd told her the second one needed doing too. Followed by telling her that she had two choices: either fight them or pay. Lying down and accepting it was not an option on the table. She fought. She won
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    It's not that they told her only one eye needed done. They were honest with her that both needed done but that the policy was that one was enough for 'day-to-day functioning'. They even let her choose which eye!

    Sadly, she hasn't adjusted well to it and says she finds it disorienting.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 10th Feb 18, 1:32 PM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    It's not that they told her only one eye needed done. They were honest with her that both needed done but that the policy was that one was enough for 'day-to-day functioning'. They even let her choose which eye!

    Sadly, she hasn't adjusted well to it and says she finds it disorienting.
    Originally posted by ripplyuk
    I can well understand her feeling that way.

    One of my concerns about my own mother was that I was picturing her having more Falls if she wasn't able to see properly. I know how she bustles around their home and she'd already had A Fall and I didn't want her having any extra to what I anticipated she'd have more of (of herself) anyway.

    Hence being very clear she needed it done regardless - and, as I always tell her, "If the worst comes to the worst and you have to pay - then you have to pay and go ahead and do so".

    Could she (or you) manage to find the £2,000-£2,500 per eye it costs to go privately? (Though, goodness knows, I find it incredible that an operation that costs the NHS only £1,000 per eye and is so beneficial is something they get awkward about paying for).

    I know my own personal position boils down to "If the only way proves to be to pay for it for the NHS - then I'd pay - even if I didn't have the money to do so. I'd pay first and worry where the money was going to come from later". Though I know some wouldn't/couldn't do so...but I'm strong enough to do so and then go off to the papers complaining that the NHS has just landed me with a debt and explain the position clearly to people.

    EDIT; I'm wondering what your mothers temperament is here? My own mother would have had forty fits at the idea of it - but I'd certainly be prepared personally to set up a "Go Fund Me" page on Facebook and would have no qualms whatsoever about shaming the NHS by so doing and would see myself as "standing up for peoples rights" by so doing. I know my own mother would hate the thought of anyone doing that - but your mother may be different on that?? Would she accept you setting up a page like that for her?
    Last edited by moneyistooshorttomention; 10-02-2018 at 2:02 PM.
    NOT dancing to anyone else's tune.

    It's the 21st century now....
    • pollypenny
    • By pollypenny 10th Feb 18, 2:40 PM
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    pollypenny
    I was originally - until I started having people telling me about jobs refused/training refused/jobs they were kicked out of because of the language and I do not approve of that. I also sympathise with how little money there is for things sometimes - so I hate seeing any of it spent to allow for personal preferences and want it to go on things we all need.

    I also started counting how many versions of Welsh there are - I thought there was "two in the process of becoming one". When I got to about 16 different versions and finding I seemed to be expected to learn 3 of them (North Welsh, South Welsh, local version) there was also an element of "Blow this for a lark - I was only prepared to learn one language - not three".

    I only know a few words of my own dialect - from back along maid, and I speak standard English/what I gather is probably "received pronunciation". Makes life much easier for everyone to understand me..
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention


    There is one version of standard Welsh, as there is for English. Wherever you travel, youíll find local words - itís called dialect, of course. Added to that, there are different accents which can make some words sound totally different.

    An example of the above would be the Geordie 'wor' for 'our'.

    If you live in South Wales why would be expected to learn, for example, 'mas' for 'allan' for 'out'?
    Member #14 of SKI-ers club

    Words, words, they're all we have to go by!.

    (Pity they are mangled by this autocorrect!)
    • BorisThomson
    • By BorisThomson 10th Feb 18, 3:11 PM
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    BorisThomson
    I'm wondering what your mothers temperament is here? My own mother would have had forty fits at the idea of it - but I'd certainly be prepared personally to set up a "Go Fund Me" page on Facebook and would have no qualms whatsoever about shaming the NHS by so doing and would see myself as "standing up for peoples rights" by so doing. I know my own mother would hate the thought of anyone doing that - but your mother may be different on that?? Would she accept you setting up a page like that for her?
    Shaming the NHS is a disgraceful thing to do. So many thousands of people work so hard everyday to do their best with ever decreasing funds, and they deserve our praise and thanks, not your vague attempt to shame them. If you have an issue with NHS funding then vent your frustrations at Jeremy Hunt, he's the one intent on decimating the service.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 10th Feb 18, 3:26 PM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    "Shaming the funding (or lack of) given to the NHS" is my obvious meaning. I wasnt aware I needed to choose each exact word with great care to make it plain that I mean what I quite obviously do mean.
    NOT dancing to anyone else's tune.

    It's the 21st century now....
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 10th Feb 18, 3:30 PM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    Those are some of the maddest excuses I've ever heard for not bothering to learn the language of the country you've settled in.

    You just didn't want to, did you? Be honest!
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel
    Speaking of not choosing each word with great care - and phrased like that makes it sound like I'm being "told off" for not wanting to learn Welsh.

    You might like to rephrase that more accurately. I'm sure you can't really want to tell me off about my choice of leisuretime activities.....and realise that obviously no-one is entitled to do so.

    No - I don't want to actually. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to do so. There's nothing right with wanting to do so. It's up to each individual person whether they want to do so or no.

    I've got other things I want to do instead. So if I want to do cookery/learning about plants/learning about dance (ie the things I am interested in) and other people want to learn Welsh - then those are our respective choices as to how we wish to spend our time. There are no value judgements attached to either. Each to their own as to how we spend our time (and our money). It is not up to anyone else to form judgements about our choice of hobbies/interests (as long as they're legal).
    Last edited by moneyistooshorttomention; 10-02-2018 at 3:33 PM.
    NOT dancing to anyone else's tune.

    It's the 21st century now....
    • p00hsticks
    • By p00hsticks 10th Feb 18, 4:44 PM
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    p00hsticks
    Speaking of not choosing each word with great care - and phrased like that makes it sound like I'm being "told off" for not wanting to learn Welsh.

    You might like to rephrase that more accurately. I'm sure you can't really want to tell me off about my choice of leisuretime activities.....and realise that obviously no-one is entitled to do so.

    No - I don't want to actually. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to do so. There's nothing right with wanting to do so. It's up to each individual person whether they want to do so or no.

    I've got other things I want to do instead. So if I want to do cookery/learning about plants/learning about dance (ie the things I am interested in) and other people want to learn Welsh - then those are our respective choices as to how we wish to spend our time. There are no value judgements attached to either. Each to their own as to how we spend our time (and our money). It is not up to anyone else to form judgements about our choice of hobbies/interests (as long as they're legal).
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    Personally, I wouldn't class learning the native language of a country you have moved to on the same lines as a hobby such as cooking or flower arranging though.

    In England councils and local authorities spend a considerable amount of money on providing translation services to non-English speakers.

    This money could be used more productively if all immigrants to the country showed the courtesy of making the effort to learn the native language - perhaps even to provide more cataract operations on the NHS.
    • hunters
    • By hunters 10th Feb 18, 5:18 PM
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    hunters
    Had the OP known the Welsh language they could have sung the Welsh National Anthem today before the rugby started but then apparently Wales is not a country.
    • boots_babe
    • By boots_babe 10th Feb 18, 5:36 PM
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    boots_babe
    My mum had her cataracts done, and it was something like 10 months I think between each eye. This wasn't Wales, it was England. Just general lack of resources I think and big waiting lists.

    • tooldle
    • By tooldle 10th Feb 18, 5:56 PM
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    tooldle
    I live and work in Wales. My elderly mother is awaiting an out payient apt to examine her cataracts. In our area the wait is approx 9mths for a first apt. This is down on the 12mths plus that was the waiting time a few years ago. Whilst there is an ongoing push to increase the use of welsh in the workforce, it is rarely essential and commonly listed as a desirable criteria in job adverts. Medical students are now encouraged to learn welsh if training at a welsh university. There have been some recent changes on the use of welsh for employers, but to the best of my knowledgethese changes do not make the ability to speak welsh an essential criteria to work in a bilingual service. I am friendly with a number of medical professional in hospitals across south wales and cannot think of a single one who speaks welsh.
    • tooldle
    • By tooldle 10th Feb 18, 6:04 PM
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    tooldle
    The nhs trust will likely have a welsh language officer. It would be simple enough for the op to ask the question directly
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 10th Feb 18, 9:37 PM
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    Red-Squirrel
    Speaking of not choosing each word with great care - and phrased like that makes it sound like I'm being "told off" for not wanting to learn Welsh.

    You might like to rephrase that more accurately. I'm sure you can't really want to tell me off about my choice of leisuretime activities.....and realise that obviously no-one is entitled to do so.

    No - I don't want to actually. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to do so. There's nothing right with wanting to do so. It's up to each individual person whether they want to do so or no.

    I've got other things I want to do instead. So if I want to do cookery/learning about plants/learning about dance (ie the things I am interested in) and other people want to learn Welsh - then those are our respective choices as to how we wish to spend our time. There are no value judgements attached to either. Each to their own as to how we spend our time (and our money). It is not up to anyone else to form judgements about our choice of hobbies/interests (as long as they're legal).
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    Why would I want to phrase it differently?

    I do think its a duty to learn at least a basic level of the language of the country you've chosen to live in, as long as there are no physical or financial barriers to you learning it, which there aren't in Wales!

    I always learn a few basic words of the language of whatever country I'm visiting even if its only for a few days! I think its only polite to make a bit of an effort.
    • GlasweJen
    • By GlasweJen 10th Feb 18, 9:47 PM
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    GlasweJen
    I don't understand how you couldn't learn welsh by immersion in Wales, I'm learning Gaelic by immersion living on this flipping island and most people use English outside of their homes, certainly in shops, schools and hospitals. Prior to coming up here I'd only ever seen Gaelic on the signs at the train station and heard it as a child watching Donnie Murdo (Danger Mouse in the rest of the UK).
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    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 10th Feb 18, 10:01 PM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    [QUOTE=Red-Squirrel;73862437

    I do think its a duty to learn at least a basic level of the language of the country you've chosen to live in, as long as there are no physical or financial barriers to you learning it, which there aren't in Wales!

    [/QUOTE]

    That is your personal opinion. In Britain we have the right to freedom of speech and opinions.

    My personal opinion is different.

    I don't believe that my personal opinion is more valid than yours. Equally I don't believe your personal opinion is more valid than mine.

    Cut it out trying to tell me what to do. I think I've been patient for long enough putting up with comments like it. My patience has just run out.
    NOT dancing to anyone else's tune.

    It's the 21st century now....
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 10th Feb 18, 10:13 PM
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    Red-Squirrel
    That is your personal opinion. In Britain we have the right to freedom of speech and opinions.

    My personal opinion is different.

    I don't believe that my personal opinion is more valid than yours. Equally I don't believe your personal opinion is more valid than mine.

    Cut it out trying to tell me what to do. I think I've been patient for long enough putting up with comments like it. My patience has just run out.
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    Surely you shouldn't think its ok for you to tell me what to post or nor post, then?

    I'm not telling you what to do, I'm stating my opinion about what is right and wrong in your situation, which you post about frequently.
    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 10th Feb 18, 10:15 PM
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    gettingtheresometime
    I have to admit, living in South Wales (so a predominately English speaking area) there!!!8217;s a greater push on the welsh language - welsh being quoted first and then english - but I had wondered if that was just me.

    However if I lived in a predominantly welsh speaking area (as I believe the OP does) I would be inclined to at least learn the basics .....either that or stop moaning about it
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    • pollypenny
    • By pollypenny 10th Feb 18, 10:56 PM
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    pollypenny
    I have to admit, living in South Wales (so a predominately English speaking area) there!!!8217;s a greater push on the welsh language - welsh being quoted first and then english - but I had wondered if that was just me.

    However if I lived in a predominantly welsh speaking area (as I believe the OP does) I would be inclined to at least learn the basics .....either that or stop moaning about it
    Originally posted by gettingtheresometime


    Ah, so youíre Irish living in Wales!

    Money is in the south, but West I believe, where Welsh is commonly spoken.

    Even here in Flintshire, away from the coastal strip you hear Welsh. Iíd say itís about 30% first language here.

    In my little close, there are three houses with Welsh first, two other with a decent level and one family from Lancashire.
    Member #14 of SKI-ers club

    Words, words, they're all we have to go by!.

    (Pity they are mangled by this autocorrect!)
    • tooldle
    • By tooldle 10th Feb 18, 10:58 PM
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    tooldle
    Welsh has to come first on everything now, websites, signs, documents the lot. It is a long and expensive process to get everything changed.
    Iím not a native speaker myself but it would be hard not to pick up any welsh, after all we have had bilingual signage for a long time.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 10th Feb 18, 11:05 PM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    Welsh has to come first on everything now, websites, signs, documents the lot. .
    Originally posted by tooldle
    Factual error flagged up - no it doesnt.

    As one comes over the border from England - the signs go English, then Welsh. One of the ways one can tell one has come as far as West Wales is that the order has changed and turned from that to putting Welsh first and English second.

    There is nothing laid down stating Welsh has to come first. It is just the preference of a few of the more Western counties of Wales. Other Welsh counties have the preference for it being the other way round.
    NOT dancing to anyone else's tune.

    It's the 21st century now....
    • stoozie1
    • By stoozie1 10th Feb 18, 11:33 PM
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    stoozie1
    I think there's a factual error above, and since 31st March 2016 signage across the country must be Welsh dominant at the next event of its renewal.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/wsi/2016/406/made
    Last edited by stoozie1; 10-02-2018 at 11:38 PM.
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