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  • FIRST POST
    • jodenice
    • By jodenice 7th Feb 18, 4:13 PM
    • 368Posts
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    jodenice
    Voluntary redundancies...
    • #1
    • 7th Feb 18, 4:13 PM
    Voluntary redundancies... 7th Feb 18 at 4:13 PM
    I am just trying to find out if anyone knows the criteria in selecting people for voluntary redundancies (if too many people apply for the redundancies offered).

    They have offered two Voluntary Severance positions here. 3 of us have gone for them. I don't know what the criteria is apart from skills and cost to business.

    I've gone for it. I am part time as I work 4 days but earn the most and have a redundancy offer (£43K). I have been here 15 years.

    A colleague on this team has gone for it, she's younger than me, is full time and earns slightly less and redundancy offer is £36K. She has been here 20 years.

    An older colleague in a neighbouring team has gone for it. He's about 55 and his redundancy offer is approx. £38K. He has also been here 15 years.

    In terms of cost to business, it will obviously cost them more to get rid of me but also to keep me. I'm not sure I have a good chance really.

    But I wanted to know what you thought? Is it even worth getting my hopes up? I don't hate the job but I do travel for 4 hours a day and I'm exhausted and I would like to work closer to home and my little girl (I would have to get another job as soon as possible as if I got this, I'd want it to be money in the bank / pay off debts and some mortgage rather than an opportunity to sit back).
Page 1
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 7th Feb 18, 4:17 PM
    • 32,434 Posts
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    Browntoa
    • #2
    • 7th Feb 18, 4:17 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Feb 18, 4:17 PM
    It's who is easiest to lose at least cost to the business

    You may be refused if you have unique skills
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • jodenice
    • By jodenice 7th Feb 18, 4:21 PM
    • 368 Posts
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    jodenice
    • #3
    • 7th Feb 18, 4:21 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Feb 18, 4:21 PM
    We're all in a niche role really. So my higher redundancy offer would effectively rule me out then really wouldn't it?

    !!!!!!!
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 7th Feb 18, 4:23 PM
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    getmore4less
    • #4
    • 7th Feb 18, 4:23 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Feb 18, 4:23 PM
    They can pick whoever they like.

    often the real issue is for those staying as they end up picking up the slack unless it is clear that the workloads is really down and there are too many people.

    Sometime a bit of playing the game can make you a preferred option.
    • jodenice
    • By jodenice 8th Feb 18, 9:51 AM
    • 368 Posts
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    jodenice
    • #5
    • 8th Feb 18, 9:51 AM
    • #5
    • 8th Feb 18, 9:51 AM
    thank you both for replying. and getmore, what do you mean playing the game? :clueless:
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 8th Feb 18, 10:52 AM
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    getmore4less
    • #6
    • 8th Feb 18, 10:52 AM
    • #6
    • 8th Feb 18, 10:52 AM
    thank you both for replying. and getmore, what do you mean playing the game? :clueless:
    Originally posted by jodenice
    Very much depends on the dynamics

    Often the nice person that is always putting themselves out becomes preferred keeper over the jobs worth as those left will be needing to pick up the slack.

    If a Mr/Mrs nice, might need to make the position clear that that will be stopping if they try to keep you and overload going forward.

    or look for reasons keeping someone else would be much better and seed that into the decision makers.

    if you are in different types of niche rolls then it might be those that are around you can pick up your work easier than those around one of the others(you say this even is not really true).


    Seems to be a big difference in package for a "slighty less" salary but 5 years more service?
    • jodenice
    • By jodenice 8th Feb 18, 11:27 AM
    • 368 Posts
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    jodenice
    • #7
    • 8th Feb 18, 11:27 AM
    • #7
    • 8th Feb 18, 11:27 AM
    Yes I was once slightly more senior but they demoted me when I came back after maternity leave because I wanted to come back over 4 days rather than 5. I accepted on the condition that I kept the same salary. So we're same grade now but I get pay of the grade I used to be.
    • Peelerfart
    • By Peelerfart 8th Feb 18, 9:46 PM
    • 1,866 Posts
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    Peelerfart
    • #8
    • 8th Feb 18, 9:46 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Feb 18, 9:46 PM
    Of course the stress of all that travelling and being away from DD might also have to be considered.

    If it were an issue of course !
    Last edited by Peelerfart; 08-02-2018 at 9:46 PM. Reason: Emoji problem
    Space available for rent
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 9th Feb 18, 9:01 AM
    • 4,552 Posts
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    sangie595
    • #9
    • 9th Feb 18, 9:01 AM
    • #9
    • 9th Feb 18, 9:01 AM
    Of course the stress of all that travelling and being away from DD might also have to be considered.

    If it were an issue of course !
    Originally posted by Peelerfart
    But of course it isn't. The OP already does that travelling and it was their choice both to travel and to be away from DD. That's their existing job and their existing choice. So attempting to coerce the employer by hinting at potential discrimination might very well backfire. They might be more inclined to keep the OP so that it doesn't appear their choice was informed by discrimination. The OPs reference might take a nose dive. Or they might decide that if the OP is fishing for a court case because they want to leave anyway, that getting rid of someone else will achieve twice the savings by making someone else redundant and then waiting for the OP to leave anyway.

    This is voluntary redundancy - so not redundancy at all. And we are not discussing suitable alternative employment, but existing roles. And attempts at "clever" coercion and blackmail very frequently blow up in people's faces - especially when the advice they have been given is wrong!
    • skadupuk
    • By skadupuk 9th Feb 18, 11:06 AM
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    skadupuk
    I think the "most expensive to make redundant" is a bit of a red herring.

    That's a one off cost and you are the highest earner, so the other question is:

    If they chose to keep the lower paid staff member, how long before they recoup the difference?

    If they'd make it back in a year then from year 2 onward they are saving money making you a more attractive option for redundancy, if it would take 20 years it's less of a factor.

    The fact that you work 4 days a week is also helps you (from the perspective of you wanting the redundancy) as retaining you and losing two 5 days a week folk only increases the pressures on the business for that day you aren't in.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 9th Feb 18, 11:31 AM
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    scd3scd4
    There is a point system. You can get an idea on line. Stuff like attendance record, sick, time keeping, skill set, flexibility, approach to H&S and cost to business....and so on.


    What it cost to get rid of you is balanced with all the other criteria.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 9th Feb 18, 12:45 PM
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    sangie595
    There is a point system. You can get an idea on line. Stuff like attendance record, sick, time keeping, skill set, flexibility, approach to H&S and cost to business....and so on.


    What it cost to get rid of you is balanced with all the other criteria.
    Originally posted by scd3scd4
    Not necessarily. This is a voluntary redundancy. As I have already said there is no such thing as voluntary redundancy. So if the employer wants to pull names out of a hat, they can.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 9th Feb 18, 12:52 PM
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    scd3scd4
    Not necessarily. This is a voluntary redundancy. As I have already said there is no such thing as voluntary redundancy. So if the employer wants to pull names out of a hat, they can.
    Originally posted by sangie595



    In a voluntary situation where they are over subscribed they use a points system at my company. Who wants to pick from a hat and end up with the best going and the worse staying. Of course they can just say no to them that apply and use the same system to pick others under business needs if it goes to compulsory.


    Well, that's what they do where I work and that's what they have done in the past.

    My conclusion.............they offer it to them they want to go and not the ones they want to keep. Sometimes the cost is considered and others its not important. Its all about business needs and going forward.
    Last edited by scd3scd4; 09-02-2018 at 1:05 PM.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 9th Feb 18, 1:04 PM
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    getmore4less
    That's what they did at my place does not make it universal or law.

    It not uncommon to decide who you want to go and then come up with a scheme to make it happen.

    a VR process and hope they volunteer
    a redundancy process and use criteria that pick the ones you want.
    manage them out
    ...
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 9th Feb 18, 1:10 PM
    • 21,474 Posts
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    lisyloo
    It not uncommon to decide who you want to go and then come up with a scheme to make it happen.
    I'd change not uncommon to racing certainty.

    Why would any employer come up with a scheme to get rid of people they wanted to keep? when criteria e.g. "teamworking", "attitude" can be subjective.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 9th Feb 18, 11:10 PM
    • 4,552 Posts
    • 7,609 Thanks
    sangie595
    In a voluntary situation where they are over subscribed they use a points system at my company. Who wants to pick from a hat and end up with the best going and the worse staying. Of course they can just say no to them that apply and use the same system to pick others under business needs if it goes to compulsory.


    Well, that's what they do where I work and that's what they have done in the past.

    My conclusion.............they offer it to them they want to go and not the ones they want to keep. Sometimes the cost is considered and others its not important. Its all about business needs and going forward.
    Originally posted by scd3scd4
    What they do at your place and what they have done at your place in the past has no relevance to anyone else.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 10th Feb 18, 6:25 AM
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    scd3scd4
    What they do at your place and what they have done at your place in the past has no relevance to anyone else.
    Originally posted by sangie595

    No, its an example of what could happen to the OP and how some systems work. That's the question the OP posed.......... But I wanted to know what you thought?




    There is no definitive answer because companies can do and manipulate what they want to get the result they desirer. What you think they can or will do is no more irrelevant because you are none to them and their business.
    Last edited by scd3scd4; 10-02-2018 at 6:54 AM.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 10th Feb 18, 9:18 AM
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    sangie595
    No, its an example of what could happen to the OP and how some systems work. That's the question the OP posed.......... But I wanted to know what you thought?

    There is no definitive answer because companies can do and manipulate what they want to get the result they desirer. What you think they can or will do is no more irrelevant because you are none to them and their business.
    Originally posted by scd3scd4
    I'm not entirely sure what that is supposed to mean, but I'm going to point this out again.... This is not a redundancy, and so the company will not, and do not need to manipulate anything to get the result they desire. They can pick any applicant they want in any way they want - or they can pick none of them. They can draw names out of a hat, they can run three-legged races down the office corridor, they can hold a vote of the workplace.... They can do anything that they want. So it's impossible to give the OP any steer on what they might decide or why, or to tell them how they might decide, if they decide anything at all.

    You are confusing "voluntary redundancy" with actual redundancy. The two have nothing in common, because the former isn't redundancy.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 10th Feb 18, 10:11 AM
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    scd3scd4
    I'm not entirely sure what that is supposed to mean, but I'm going to point this out again.... This is not a redundancy, and so the company will not, and do not need to manipulate anything to get the result they desire. They can pick any applicant they want in any way they want - or they can pick none of them. They can draw names out of a hat, they can run three-legged races down the office corridor, they can hold a vote of the workplace.... They can do anything that they want. So it's impossible to give the OP any steer on what they might decide or why, or to tell them how they might decide, if they decide anything at all.

    You are confusing "voluntary redundancy" with actual redundancy. The two have nothing in common, because the former isn't redundancy.
    Originally posted by sangie595

    No, not all companies work how you think they do and that includes large American oil companies where I work. Some use a points system for both voluntary and compulsory. No one is confused as its pretty simple to understand. No one has to have three legged races with their dog. You have no idea how the OPs company works.


    We all know we are speculating that's what you expect when you ask strangers for there views or advise on a forum with a bit of debate.


    To the OP: Cost is only one factor they could look at. I would not personally use it to get your hopes up. The same goes for your travelling.
    Last edited by scd3scd4; 11-02-2018 at 8:52 AM.
    • NCC-1701
    • By NCC-1701 10th Feb 18, 3:01 PM
    • 194 Posts
    • 301 Thanks
    NCC-1701
    sangie595 now PPR'd?
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