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  • FIRST POST
    • MissMarble
    • By MissMarble 7th Feb 18, 3:37 PM
    • 33Posts
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    MissMarble
    Understanding offers in excess as FTBs
    • #1
    • 7th Feb 18, 3:37 PM
    Understanding offers in excess as FTBs 7th Feb 18 at 3:37 PM
    Hi everyone,

    After posting on a previous thread with lots of great input and advice, I thought I'd share our latest dilemma/query with hope of receiving some help!

    We are first time buyers and live in Manchester, hoping to buy in a few small towns which are either on the up or already slightly established. Earlier this week we put our first offer on a house, which for a day was the highest - before we got out-bid by another couple who I believe may have offered £1,000 / £1,500 more than our second offer. The house was on for offers over £220,000 and so it is our understanding it may have gone for £225,000+. We were prepared to go up to that, however there was work to be done to the house hence why I think we may have been overly cautious.

    As we were out-bid, we are now back to the drawing board and before we find somewhere else I wondered if you could help with understanding how much to increase offers by? I read that it's generally good to put two offers down on a property and to start out low before increasing - however, I think we are just confused about how much to increase it by and with the 'offers over' it's difficult to go in low to begin with.

    We've noticed the property market in Manchester is extremely quick moving and houses in good areas are SSTC in a week with multiple offers on the table. I've also seen how properties are generally advertised at 'offers over' which adds more confusion because it sounds like there's never a cut off point - i.e. if we offered on a house on at offers over £200,000, how far up should you go bearing in mind there are several other offers?

    I know each circumstance is different, but if anyone can shed any light in terms of offers in excess that would be really helpful. We were gutted to have missed out on the house we offered on and looking back wish we had gone in at the higher price.

    Thank you in advance.
Page 3
    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 14th Feb 18, 12:53 PM
    • 5,531 Posts
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    Crashy Time
    If the shoe fits...

    You need to look at all reports or non-biased reports such as the land registry.. If you take that approach you will see that in the last year house prices have broadly increased by a modest amount.. It is best to look at yearly figures as it gets rid of the peaks (summer) and troughs (winter) that are common in the housing market...

    Time will tell but any speculation one way or another would be a wild guess, my thoughts are in the next 12 months we could see anything from a small rise to a small fall but it is unlikely to see major swings either way unless something dramatic happens as there are not enough forces one way or the other.

    The reason you are called a muppet and village idiot is because just like the HPC lot you have made your mind up a crash is coming and you are looking only for evidence that backs up your conclusion, ignoring all other evidence. That is not the way to arrive at a sensible conclusion.
    Originally posted by buggy_boy

    So what do we call someone (you) who seems to be claiming an edge when it comes to interest rates, a guru? You have no idea what will happen with Brexit/Other EZ countries/U.S/China etc. The problem many on here have is that they are biased by the big property loans they have already taken out, but this doesn`t mean that their advice that others should do the same is sound Only someone very blinkered would deny that there has been a massive shift in market expectation and the media tone on property, and sentiment is one of the main drivers of the property market, along with easy credit, Oh and low rates.........
    • ReadingTim
    • By ReadingTim 14th Feb 18, 3:11 PM
    • 2,393 Posts
    • 3,399 Thanks
    ReadingTim
    So what do we call someone (you) who seems to be claiming an edge when it comes to interest rates, a guru? You have no idea what will happen with Brexit/Other EZ countries/U.S/China etc. The problem many on here have is that they are biased by the big property loans they have already taken out, but this doesn`t mean that their advice that others should do the same is sound Only someone very blinkered would deny that there has been a massive shift in market expectation and the media tone on property, and sentiment is one of the main drivers of the property market, along with easy credit, Oh and low rates.........
    Originally posted by Crashy Time
    Pots and kettles Crashy - you have no idea either, and have latched on to Brexit in the same way you latched onto QE before that, and whatever other issue of the day you could find that day to support your equally blinkered view.

    You continue to try and subtly tweak your statements, re-frame your argument and shift the goalposts, and hope that by diverting the discussion into meaningless semantics and pedantic tautology you divert people's attention from the fact that you've been proven consistently wrong for your entire posting history. If there was ever a crash, slowdown, whatever, it won't be due to any wisdom, foresight or prophesy on your part.

    In fact, you'd be more credible if you replaced "house price crash" with "alien invasion" and haunted these forums with that sort of doom-mongering - I'd take you more seriously for one.
    • 51mm5
    • By 51mm5 14th Feb 18, 4:53 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    51mm5
    Can you post up the sales volume link first?
    Originally posted by Crashy Time
    keep shifting those goal posts. Are you wanting a house prices crash or house sales crash now?
    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 15th Feb 18, 1:40 PM
    • 5,531 Posts
    • 2,272 Thanks
    Crashy Time
    keep shifting those goal posts. Are you wanting a house prices crash or house sales crash now?
    Originally posted by 51mm5

    House sales crash is the precursor to a price crash, especially if rates start rising. Why don`t you post some stats on how many people are getting a buyer nowadays?
    • PokerPlayer111
    • By PokerPlayer111 15th Feb 18, 1:44 PM
    • 184 Posts
    • 48 Thanks
    PokerPlayer111
    Yup volume is important indicator to consider with trends.
    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 15th Feb 18, 1:45 PM
    • 5,531 Posts
    • 2,272 Thanks
    Crashy Time
    Pots and kettles Crashy - you have no idea either, and have latched on to Brexit in the same way you latched onto QE before that, and whatever other issue of the day you could find that day to support your equally blinkered view.

    You continue to try and subtly tweak your statements, re-frame your argument and shift the goalposts, and hope that by diverting the discussion into meaningless semantics and pedantic tautology you divert people's attention from the fact that you've been proven consistently wrong for your entire posting history. If there was ever a crash, slowdown, whatever, it won't be due to any wisdom, foresight or prophesy on your part.

    In fact, you'd be more credible if you replaced "house price crash" with "alien invasion" and haunted these forums with that sort of doom-mongering - I'd take you more seriously for one.
    Originally posted by ReadingTim

    Let`s make it simple - Emergency interest rates were keeping the property market limping along - Emergency rates are coming to an end ... How will this affect your probably sizeable mortgage debts?
    • buggy_boy
    • By buggy_boy 15th Feb 18, 3:06 PM
    • 145 Posts
    • 89 Thanks
    buggy_boy
    So what do we call someone (you) who seems to be claiming an edge when it comes to interest rates, a guru? You have no idea what will happen with Brexit/Other EZ countries/U.S/China etc. The problem many on here have is that they are biased by the big property loans they have already taken out, but this doesn`t mean that their advice that others should do the same is sound Only someone very blinkered would deny that there has been a massive shift in market expectation and the media tone on property, and sentiment is one of the main drivers of the property market, along with easy credit, Oh and low rates.........
    Originally posted by Crashy Time
    Yeah we have no idea what will happen, im not the one constantly saying a crash is coming, you ignore all other evidence that does not fit with your conclusion... Ive never said interest rates wont rise, you are the one claiming interest rates will rise which will cause a crash...

    Haha yeah the old people that don't agree with me only do so because they they have vested interest, its what the HPC lot have been saying for over a decade, I agree taking out a large mortgage is a risk, but waiting and hoping for a crash while paying rent is probably as much of a risk, I would always advise make sure its a house and area you want to stay in and make sure you can afford the mortgage if rates go 6-8%. You cant though deny as a long term asset property has and is likely to keep increasing in value (Short of some big event like a disease killing 90% of the population).

    I think sentiment has changed, we will see rates rise but im not seeing enough forced sellers to change the market, im looking to buy another BTL and have done for months, but there is nothing on the market for the type of property in the location I want. I would challenge easy credit, that was pre 2012ish, now lending has tightened, lenders look at affordability, in the past they just looked at your income only.
    • ReadingTim
    • By ReadingTim 15th Feb 18, 3:09 PM
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    ReadingTim
    House sales crash is the precursor to a price crash, especially if rates start rising. Why don`t you post some stats on how many people are getting a buyer nowadays?
    Originally posted by Crashy Time
    You sure about that? When supply (of houses for sale) drops & demand (buyers) stays the same, price doesn't go down....

    Interest rates would have to rise considerably before people are forced to sell (ie repossession), which is why it won't happen. As I've said before, there is literally and figuratively too much invested in property and the property market for it to crash in the manner you hope. Sales reflect supply, not demand.
    • buggy_boy
    • By buggy_boy 15th Feb 18, 3:15 PM
    • 145 Posts
    • 89 Thanks
    buggy_boy
    Let`s make it simple - Emergency interest rates were keeping the property market limping along - Emergency rates are coming to an end ... How will this affect your probably sizeable mortgage debts?
    Originally posted by Crashy Time

    What are you calling "Emergency rates"? there was an emergency rate cut from 0.5% to 0.25% following the Brexit result but that has now been reversed. We have had rates at basically 0.5% for like 9 years... Why do you try to use a weak argument of anyone who says they do not think rates will rise very fast as having a sizable debts? I have enough savings I could wipe out my debt tomorrow, I still dont think rates will rise very quickly... Just google "Carney rate rise 2014", for 4yrs the guy has been saying we will have a rate rise very soon. Im not saying it wont happen sooner or later, I just think if someone says for 4yrs rates will rise this year they lose credibility... Just like when you say were on the edge of a crash for 4yrs. Thats not to say it wont happen but if it did you would not be some kind of genious, just a broken clock thats rights twice a day.
    • ReadingTim
    • By ReadingTim 15th Feb 18, 3:24 PM
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    ReadingTim
    What are you calling "Emergency rates"? there was an emergency rate cut from 0.5% to 0.25% following the Brexit result but that has now been reversed. We have had rates at basically 0.5% for like 9 years... Why do you try to use a weak argument of anyone who says they do not think rates will rise very fast as having a sizable debts? I have enough savings I could wipe out my debt tomorrow, I still dont think rates will rise very quickly... Just google "Carney rate rise 2014", for 4yrs the guy has been saying we will have a rate rise very soon. Im not saying it wont happen sooner or later, I just think if someone says for 4yrs rates will rise this year they lose credibility... Just like when you say were on the edge of a crash for 4yrs. Thats not to say it wont happen but if it did you would not be some kind of genious, just a broken clock thats rights twice a day.
    Originally posted by buggy_boy
    It's the classic "I'm right, I always was, and had it not been for x, y and z, I always will be" argument.

    Problem is, "x, y and z" was what proved them wrong.
    • glasgowdan
    • By glasgowdan 15th Feb 18, 9:25 PM
    • 2,777 Posts
    • 3,122 Thanks
    glasgowdan
    Looks like another thread dragged off topic
    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 15th Feb 18, 10:58 PM
    • 5,531 Posts
    • 2,272 Thanks
    Crashy Time
    Back on topic. OP, just fire ahead at the highest price you can possibly afford on the next house, it is unlikely that rates/sentiment/anything will change over the life of your mortgage....unfortunately unless you are buying cash your lender/valuer might not agree..
    • 51mm5
    • By 51mm5 16th Feb 18, 7:23 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    51mm5
    House sales crash is the precursor to a price crash, especially if rates start rising. Why don`t you post some stats on how many people are getting a buyer nowadays?
    Originally posted by Crashy Time
    Last word Iíll say on this but house price sales volumes may have fallen yet average uk house prices has still risen....
    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 21st Feb 18, 12:09 PM
    • 5,531 Posts
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    Crashy Time
    Last word Iíll say on this but house price sales volumes may have fallen yet average uk house prices has still risen....
    Originally posted by 51mm5

    Doesn`t help you much if there are no buyers though


    https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/property/3174006-House-valuation-help-please
    • ReadingTim
    • By ReadingTim 21st Feb 18, 12:29 PM
    • 2,393 Posts
    • 3,399 Thanks
    ReadingTim
    Doesn`t help you much if there are no buyers though


    https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/property/3174006-House-valuation-help-please
    Originally posted by Crashy Time
    "I know, I'll quote Mumsnet. That'll enhance my credibility."

    Said no-one. Ever.

    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 21st Feb 18, 2:34 PM
    • 5,531 Posts
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    Crashy Time
    "I know, I'll quote Mumsnet. That'll enhance my credibility."

    Said no-one. Ever.

    Originally posted by ReadingTim

    You don`t really understand the importance of sentiment do you?
    • ReadingTim
    • By ReadingTim 21st Feb 18, 3:27 PM
    • 2,393 Posts
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    ReadingTim
    You don`t really understand the importance of sentiment do you?
    Originally posted by Crashy Time
    Given your posts are usually about as welcome as a sausage roll at a bar mitzvah, I suggest you struggle with the concept too.
    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 21st Feb 18, 4:35 PM
    • 5,531 Posts
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    Crashy Time
    Given your posts are usually about as welcome as a sausage roll at a bar mitzvah, I suggest you struggle with the concept too.
    Originally posted by ReadingTim

    First bit nearly made me laugh, but not sure what posting stuff that heavily mortgaged forum readers don`t want to think about has to do with general sentiment?
    • dunroving
    • By dunroving 21st Feb 18, 5:36 PM
    • 673 Posts
    • 365 Thanks
    dunroving
    Could we please keep this thread on-topic? I spend enough time reading forums without having to waste time trawling through posts that are completely irrelevant to the thread topic.
    (Nearly) dunroving
    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 21st Feb 18, 7:04 PM
    • 5,531 Posts
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    Crashy Time
    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-boe/bank-of-england-rates-could-rise-more-than-thought-says-chief-economist-idUKKCN1G51UI
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