Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • AMO
    • By AMO 7th Feb 18, 1:56 PM
    • 1,438Posts
    • 373Thanks
    AMO
    To combi or not combi delimna?
    • #1
    • 7th Feb 18, 1:56 PM
    To combi or not combi delimna? 7th Feb 18 at 1:56 PM
    Hi all,

    We have a 4 bed built in the 80s extended to a 5 bed house using 8mm microbore.

    Our Gloworm 60,000 BTU conventional boiler that was put in when the house was built no longer works.

    We have Homeserve cover and the boiler was categorised as beyond economic repair.

    An independent engineer would replace the boiler with a Worcester Bosch Greenstar R30i and the cost is around £2500.

    Homeserve would install a 30CDI Classic at a cost of £2800.

    However, because the boiler is beyond economic repair, they use a company to provide a free boiler replacement option (Safelink I think). The main restriction to this route is that the boiler has to be an Ideal boiler (only 2 tr warranty if coming from Homeserve). But you can pay about £200 to extend to a 7 yr warranty or something.

    There are 2 options here:
    1) Like for like replacement - conventional boiler - £1400.
    2) Combi-boiler (35Kw) - £1900.

    Either way the options look attractive and money saving both in installation and running with the latter.

    I have 3 concerns:
    a) Its a 5 bed house (1 bathroom, 1 electric shower) - there are views that combi-boilers are not good for larger houses.
    b) We have 8mm microbore - there are views that its not designed for pressurised systems.
    c) Ideal boilers. People say that they're getting better, but still have problems longer term and engineers say they're good mainly because of the commission system.

    Anyway, which way would you choose?

    Thanks.

    AMO
Page 1
    • EmmyLou30
    • By EmmyLou30 7th Feb 18, 2:04 PM
    • 374 Posts
    • 454 Thanks
    EmmyLou30
    • #2
    • 7th Feb 18, 2:04 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Feb 18, 2:04 PM
    I'm not a heating engineer, but we went from a hot water tank/cold tank in the loft/standard boiler set up to a combi to free up the old airing cupboard space and remove a potential source of leaks in the loft (I just didn't like not being able to 'keep an eye' on it!). We have 8mm micrbore pipework and replaced all the old scruffy rads with new ones and new valves. We have a standard shower in the en suite off the boiler, as well as a bathroom - the argument for not having a combi is generally that supplying 2 sources of hot water in a multi bathroom house at once is too much for it. Well ours copes just fine on the rare occasion we use both together. If you have an electric shower it's less of an issue to have a combi I would think.
    • Alex1983
    • By Alex1983 7th Feb 18, 2:17 PM
    • 770 Posts
    • 442 Thanks
    Alex1983
    • #3
    • 7th Feb 18, 2:17 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Feb 18, 2:17 PM
    A big combi will be fine if your only have 1 bathroom.

    8mm pipework isnt ideal but as long as the pipework is clean it will be fine.

    I would do everything I could to avoid ideal, poor quality, cheap boilers with terrible aftercare.

    You will get all different answer on best manufacturer based on peoples previous experience etc. I would personally go with Vaillant, long history of very reliable boilers and decent customer service if required.
    • AMO
    • By AMO 7th Feb 18, 3:35 PM
    • 1,438 Posts
    • 373 Thanks
    AMO
    • #4
    • 7th Feb 18, 3:35 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Feb 18, 3:35 PM
    A big combi will be fine if your only have 1 bathroom.

    8mm pipework isnt ideal but as long as the pipework is clean it will be fine.

    I would do everything I could to avoid ideal, poor quality, cheap boilers with terrible aftercare.

    You will get all different answer on best manufacturer based on peoples previous experience etc. I would personally go with Vaillant, long history of very reliable boilers and decent customer service if required.
    Originally posted by Alex1983
    Thanks. Unfortunately to go the combi-route I have to go with this company to get the boiler and installation cheap and the terms specified are that it has to be an Ideal boiler. Its a great offer as they get rid of the water tanks etc but the Ideal boiler is just....not ideal!

    It might be a case of - go for it because its such a good price and try to lengthen the warranty with Ideal. Then if you need to replace the combi, its just a change of boiler thereafter.
    • J B
    • By J B 7th Feb 18, 6:07 PM
    • 2,563 Posts
    • 855 Thanks
    J B
    • #5
    • 7th Feb 18, 6:07 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Feb 18, 6:07 PM
    A big combi will be fine if your only have 1 bathroom.
    Originally posted by Alex1983
    That was my first thought, but 5 bedrooms and only one bathroom???

    Looking to the future, to add value maybe another bathroom or two and then the combi *may* not be sufficient???
    • Bill23h
    • By Bill23h 7th Feb 18, 6:31 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 33 Thanks
    Bill23h
    • #6
    • 7th Feb 18, 6:31 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Feb 18, 6:31 PM
    [QUOTE=AMO;73845109]Thanks. Unfortunately to go the combi-route I have to go with this company to get the boiler and installation cheap and the terms specified are that it has to be an Ideal boiler. Its a great offer as they get rid of the water tanks etc but the Ideal boiler is just....not ideal!

    If you can afford it, paying now for a decently sized Worcester Bosch Combi will probably save you money in the long run. A registered installer will give you a full 7 year warranty which means you can scrap any maintenance contracts you have. We scrapped an old Potterton which was the house builders original from 1990 and cut gas consumption by half. That, combined with not paying out anything to british Gas for a service contract will almost pay for itself over the 7 years. WB are ultra-reliable and super-efficient. I wouldn't have anything else, though I 've heard Vaillant run them close. We got a WB 42i for a house of similar age and size to yours, and it's more than adequate water-wise.
    • bris
    • By bris 7th Feb 18, 7:44 PM
    • 7,311 Posts
    • 6,320 Thanks
    bris
    • #7
    • 7th Feb 18, 7:44 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Feb 18, 7:44 PM
    Combi boilers are not good for multiple bathrooms, the size of the house is irrelevant. A 3 bed house with 1 bathroom and 2 ensuits would struggle with a combi.


    Your 5 bed house will be fine with a combi, the 1 bathroom will suit it just fine.


    Ideal boilers aren't bad and getting a better warranty for a couple on hundred quid is a no brainer. Don't fall for this nonsense that Worcester Bosch are the best, 20 years ago yes, but now they are just one of the pack.
    • MikeEngTech
    • By MikeEngTech 8th Feb 18, 1:19 AM
    • 42 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    MikeEngTech
    • #8
    • 8th Feb 18, 1:19 AM
    • #8
    • 8th Feb 18, 1:19 AM
    Hi,
    I!!!8217;m a heating engineer. Member of the Chartered institute of Plumbing and Heating Engineering as well. The people you have in should be able to answer these questions. Ask them why they have recommended what they have and tell them your concerns.
    Many plumbers/heating engineers quoting for combi boilers in larger properties seem to forget about the delay in hot water. In Germany they say a combi boiler is only suited for up to 7m of hot pipework. Personally I think up to around 10-12M max. Otherwise either move the combi more centrally or just upgrade the cylinder and you could even run a domestic hot water circulation loop to reduce the delay and wasteage of water waiting for the hot water to reach the taps.
    Seal the system. If old pipes leak under a bit more pressure then you need new pipes. Sealed systems will always me more efficient and almost always more reliable in the long run in my opinion. You shouldn!!!8217;t even need inhibitor then if your fill water is good.
    Powerflush if needed is great but expect to pay more for a proper flush.
    Filters are probably worth paying extra for.
    8mm pipe shouldn!!!8217;t make a difference but if the manifolds are small or the branches too long and the system is dirty then the been boiler may struggle. Nothing a good flush shouldn!!!8217;t be able to sort. If there is issues with the pipe sizing in the property then a new boiler won!!!8217;t sort that.
    Finally if someone offers !!!8220;modulating controls!!!8221; such as OpenTherm or weather compensation then you should probably go with them. All this on/off stuff is very old now but still the most common and dont make the most of condensing efficiency.
    You can PM me if you like to see if I know someone in your area.
    Regards
    • jhe
    • By jhe 8th Feb 18, 11:20 AM
    • 1,792 Posts
    • 695 Thanks
    jhe
    • #9
    • 8th Feb 18, 11:20 AM
    • #9
    • 8th Feb 18, 11:20 AM
    I have a Worcester Bosch 38cdi classic that replaced a previous Worcester Bosch last year.
    I got it installed by a Worcester accredited installer and also got a Worcester thermostat as long as I get it serviced every year I get a 10 year parts and labour guarantee
    • AMO
    • By AMO 10th Feb 18, 12:20 PM
    • 1,438 Posts
    • 373 Thanks
    AMO
    Slight dilemna - Homeserve, Help-Link and Ideal all deny that the Logic boler warranty can be extended. With Ideal, you need to change to another boiler Logic+, but Homeserve and Help-Link won't allow that.

    Possibly any warranty extension is provided by Homeserve, but no-one knows anything.

    Furthermore, it may be in their interest to keep you subscribed to their heating insurance.

    Reviews on Logic boilers might be only positive for Logic+ and higher ranges but not the lowest Logic range? Anyone with any views?

    Thanks.
    • Alex1983
    • By Alex1983 10th Feb 18, 1:24 PM
    • 770 Posts
    • 442 Thanks
    Alex1983
    They are terrible boilers, but will keep me busy for a long time so I shouldnt moan. I really wouldnt let them fit a logic in my house. I realise its a cheap price but theres a saying pay cheap pay twice, whats actually wrong with your boiler and what model do you have. I see this often that Homeserve say its uneconomical to repair, is that in there terms and conditions or do they just decide its uneconomical.
    • AMO
    • By AMO 10th Feb 18, 9:15 PM
    • 1,438 Posts
    • 373 Thanks
    AMO
    They are terrible boilers, but will keep me busy for a long time so I shouldnt moan. I really wouldnt let them fit a logic in my house. I realise its a cheap price but theres a saying pay cheap pay twice, whats actually wrong with your boiler and what model do you have. I see this often that Homeserve say its uneconomical to repair, is that in there terms and conditions or do they just decide its uneconomical.
    Originally posted by Alex1983
    It's an old Gloworm Economy Plus boiler - over 20 years old. The parts are difficult to get hold of.

    Thanks for the advice - we'll probably go with the smaller company but pay more but they'll put in the Worcester Bosch with 10 year guarantee.
    • MikeEngTech
    • By MikeEngTech 11th Feb 18, 1:23 AM
    • 42 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    MikeEngTech
    Getting a big company to fit a Logic on the cheap is going to be a terrible job. It probably won't last 10 years. There are good (arguably better) and cheaper options than Worcester. Try to stick to one with a stainless steel heat exchanger, modulating controls, clean system and you shouldn't really go wrong in my opinion. Or Intergas are a good value option too.
    Last edited by MikeEngTech; 11-02-2018 at 1:27 AM.
    • Spider In The Bath
    • By Spider In The Bath 11th Feb 18, 6:35 AM
    • 1,084 Posts
    • 3,963 Thanks
    Spider In The Bath
    They are terrible boilers, but will keep me busy for a long time so I shouldnt moan. I really wouldnt let them fit a logic in my house. I realise its a cheap price but theres a saying pay cheap pay twice, whats actually wrong with your boiler and what model do you have. I see this often that Homeserve say its uneconomical to repair, is that in there terms and conditions or do they just decide its uneconomical.
    Originally posted by Alex1983
    I agree.

    I hate our boiler (oil Bosch). It stops working all the time. At one point we had a heating engineer out about every 8 weeks to keep it running (and it is only a few years old).
    • Waterlily24
    • By Waterlily24 11th Feb 18, 11:46 AM
    • 881 Posts
    • 468 Thanks
    Waterlily24
    We've got a fairly big house, 4 bedrooms, 3 reception rooms, 3 bathrooms, kitchen and utility room and have a Worcester Greenstar Heatslave 25/32 combi boiler (Oil). We would never go back to a 'Normal' boiler. The boiler is slightly bigger than we needed. Love having hot water when you want it.

    Must say though that the bathrooms aren't used at the same time.
    • 2010
    • By 2010 11th Feb 18, 1:08 PM
    • 4,179 Posts
    • 3,333 Thanks
    2010
    When I enquired about a combi I was told I would need new pipework (22mm) from the gas meter to where the current boiler is situated.
    The last thing I want is ugly pipework wrapped halfway around my house.
    Both installers weren`t very keen on combis anyway and advised against them.

    The other thing I`ve been tod is that builders only fit combis to new builds when the property is less than 1000 sq ft.
    • southcoastrgi
    • By southcoastrgi 11th Feb 18, 2:21 PM
    • 5,276 Posts
    • 3,069 Thanks
    southcoastrgi
    The only difference between the Logic & Logic+ is the length of the warentee the boiler is exactly the same & the boilers are crap
    I'm only here while I wait for Corrie to start.

    You get no BS from me & if I think you are wrong I WILL tell you.
    • Alk
    • By Alk 11th Feb 18, 3:10 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Alk
    You should ask Homeserve for the monetary value from your policy to source your own replacement boiler independently.
    ie. you want a cash payout for a replacement boiler from them (that they are insuring you for).
    A friend has had to do this with Homeserve. It was nowhere near the cost of sourcing your own boiler, but better than nothing.
    • Waterlily24
    • By Waterlily24 11th Feb 18, 3:53 PM
    • 881 Posts
    • 468 Thanks
    Waterlily24
    When I enquired about a combi I was told I would need new pipework (22mm) from the gas meter to where the current boiler is situated.
    The last thing I want is ugly pipework wrapped halfway around my house.
    Both installers weren`t very keen on combis anyway and advised against them.

    The other thing I`ve been tod is that builders only fit combis to new builds when the property is less than 1000 sq ft.
    Originally posted by 2010

    Ours is more than double that and that doesn't include the big hallway or landing. We've had ours for about 8 years now and would replace with the same. Being home all day it's lovely to have hot water when you want it.
    • AMO
    • By AMO 14th Feb 18, 2:19 PM
    • 1,438 Posts
    • 373 Thanks
    AMO
    You should ask Homeserve for the monetary value from your policy to source your own replacement boiler independently.
    ie. you want a cash payout for a replacement boiler from them (that they are insuring you for).
    A friend has had to do this with Homeserve. It was nowhere near the cost of sourcing your own boiler, but better than nothing.
    Originally posted by Alk
    Thanks. They won't allow this - at least not when I checked with them.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

1,389Posts Today

8,338Users online

Martin's Twitter