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  • FIRST POST
    • Ali71
    • By Ali71 7th Feb 18, 11:15 AM
    • 27Posts
    • 4Thanks
    Ali71
    Sudden death no will-what now?
    • #1
    • 7th Feb 18, 11:15 AM
    Sudden death no will-what now? 7th Feb 18 at 11:15 AM
    Hi,


    Sadly, we found out last night via the police that my partner's brother had passed away suddenly ,although he had been ill for some time. He had not made a will, a bit of an in family joke, as he always said "you'll have to sort it out when I'm gone - ha ha". Partner asked him to make one, but he did not. Partner is the only sibling of the deceased. No other relatives. So according to the rules, he will inherit the house and any monies, which are likely to be small. House is very run down. The estate will be well below the IHT level.


    Partner is in shock at the moment, but he is trying to be practical. Please, are the only forms we need to do the PA1 for probate and IHT form? Even though there will be nothing to pay?


    Should this be fairly straightforward? Partner has said he will just get solicitor to do everything but I'm thinking it could be less costly to get basic paperwork together, i.e bank statements, utility bills, all the Tell Us Once bits, and then hand it over to the solicitor.


    It's early days and we are still reeling a bit, but trying to work out what to do and in what order.

    Obviously at the moment priority is getting the death certificate sorted out (hopefully) with the coroner's office. And then the funeral.


    Thank you.
Page 1
    • McKneff
    • By McKneff 7th Feb 18, 11:22 AM
    • 35,844 Posts
    • 46,162 Thanks
    McKneff
    • #2
    • 7th Feb 18, 11:22 AM
    • #2
    • 7th Feb 18, 11:22 AM
    Google What to do when someone dies' there is a list of things to do in order
    make the most of it, we are only here for the weekend.
    and we will never, ever return.
    • enjoyyourshoes
    • By enjoyyourshoes 7th Feb 18, 11:29 AM
    • 1,038 Posts
    • 1,268 Thanks
    enjoyyourshoes
    • #3
    • 7th Feb 18, 11:29 AM
    • #3
    • 7th Feb 18, 11:29 AM
    https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will

    I would get as many death certificates as bank accounts etc as they are 1/2 the price when you order them on first registering the death, and you will need one per account (they do send them back but it does take ages and can delay the process)

    If there are stocks and shares a copy of FT on day of death (but that may have changed now?! as it was a while ago I had to do that)

    Good luck
    Debt is a symptom, solve the problem.
    • DigForVictory
    • By DigForVictory 7th Feb 18, 11:39 AM
    • 7,366 Posts
    • 20,361 Thanks
    DigForVictory
    • #4
    • 7th Feb 18, 11:39 AM
    • #4
    • 7th Feb 18, 11:39 AM
    Local library may have paper copies of the FT going back - or 'fiche & can print for you.

    It is an unkind burden to dump on your grieving family. I'll hope the chap doesn't have any estate elsewhere? (As one bloke we knew died intestate in two countries - long before that was settled if they could have stabbed him, they would...)

    Make sure the estate pays for your work, your time & the occasional meal out to protect your sanity. A sudden death in the family should not cause a sudden scrunch in your cashflow.

    All the very best, and please be gentle with each other as there will be grounds for anger amidst the grief.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 7th Feb 18, 11:51 AM
    • 31,381 Posts
    • 18,806 Thanks
    getmore4less
    • #5
    • 7th Feb 18, 11:51 AM
    • #5
    • 7th Feb 18, 11:51 AM
    The links you find with MkK suggestion will get you started(read a few to get a better overview).

    There are some basic admin that will need to be done but you will get the feeling you need to act quick but there is time to let the situation sink in.

    One thing it will be worth looking at is the security and insurance of the property.

    Then fairly soon will be establishing if the estate is solvent or not,
    assets less debts if any.

    if not solvent then there is the option to step back.

    You will hear the term intermeddling used so worth reading up on that if there is chance you won't want to admin the estate.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 7th Feb 18, 11:52 AM
    • 3,694 Posts
    • 3,012 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    • #6
    • 7th Feb 18, 11:52 AM
    • #6
    • 7th Feb 18, 11:52 AM
    Hi,


    Sadly, we found out last night via the police that my partner's brother had passed away suddenly ,although he had been ill for some time. He had not made a will, a bit of an in family joke, as he always said "you'll have to sort it out when I'm gone - ha ha". Partner asked him to make one, but he did not. Partner is the only sibling of the deceased. No other relatives. So according to the rules, he will inherit the house and any monies, which are likely to be small. House is very run down. The estate will be well below the IHT level.


    Partner is in shock at the moment, but he is trying to be practical. Please, are the only forms we need to do the PA1 for probate and IHT form? Even though there will be nothing to pay?


    Should this be fairly straightforward? Partner has said he will just get solicitor to do everything but I'm thinking it could be less costly to get basic paperwork together, i.e bank statements, utility bills, all the Tell Us Once bits, and then hand it over to the solicitor.


    It's early days and we are still reeling a bit, but trying to work out what to do and in what order.

    Obviously at the moment priority is getting the death certificate sorted out (hopefully) with the coroner's office. And then the funeral.


    Thank you.
    Originally posted by Ali71
    Your partner as the closest relative will need to apply for letters of administration to deal witht he estate. Urgent things are to notify the bank, and any insurance company to make sure any house is still covered. If their are sufficiebt funds the bank will pay the funeral director directly. When you apply for the LOA order extra copies of the grant as they are much cheaper that way.
    Last edited by Yorkshireman99; 07-02-2018 at 11:23 PM.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 7th Feb 18, 11:54 AM
    • 31,381 Posts
    • 18,806 Thanks
    getmore4less
    • #7
    • 7th Feb 18, 11:54 AM
    • #7
    • 7th Feb 18, 11:54 AM
    Plenty of on line resources to get share prices suitable for probate valuations no need to go tracking down the FT.
    • Margot123
    • By Margot123 7th Feb 18, 1:08 PM
    • 666 Posts
    • 680 Thanks
    Margot123
    • #8
    • 7th Feb 18, 1:08 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Feb 18, 1:08 PM
    The very first thing you must do regarding the deceased's estate is to make absolutely certain there was no will. You cannot assume just because there was joviality over the issue, that a will doesn't exist.

    You need to conduct a very thorough search of the deceased's property (inc. under rugs etc). Check with local solicitors, the deceased's bank etc. Anywhere you can think of.

    This has happened before where a will is later discovered and it becomes very complicated.
    • Ali71
    • By Ali71 7th Feb 18, 2:03 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Ali71
    • #9
    • 7th Feb 18, 2:03 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Feb 18, 2:03 PM
    Thanks all, really helpful and kind replies. We will batter on, this is just the beginning.....
    • enjoyyourshoes
    • By enjoyyourshoes 7th Feb 18, 2:52 PM
    • 1,038 Posts
    • 1,268 Thanks
    enjoyyourshoes
    When you search property look for any insurances (life) and possible pensions through employment as this may also have life insurance attached.

    If there is surplus in the estate (net funeral cost) then I would suggest completing the probate yourself , I have completed both with and without a will, don't need expensive solicitors unless there is a element of complication to it.
    Debt is a symptom, solve the problem.
    • Margot123
    • By Margot123 7th Feb 18, 3:22 PM
    • 666 Posts
    • 680 Thanks
    Margot123
    When you search property look for any insurances (life) and possible pensions through employment as this may also have life insurance attached.

    If there is surplus in the estate (net funeral cost) then I would suggest completing the probate yourself , I have completed both with and without a will, don't need expensive solicitors unless there is a element of complication to it.
    Originally posted by enjoyyourshoes
    Can I just add that it isn't always the estate that's complicated, it can be the relationships between the deceased, administrators and beneficiaries.
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 7th Feb 18, 3:26 PM
    • 61,586 Posts
    • 360,618 Thanks
    PasturesNew
    Yes it's entirely straight forward and yes his sole sibling, without any parents being alive, will inherit the lot.

    However: if there are any doubts whatsoever about there being any other relatives that might crawl out of the woodwork, investigate an insurance policy and put a notice in the Gazette. Increasingly these days this is important as, due to DNA etc, it's more likely that somebody might pursue a valid claim.

    e.g. if he was a bit of a lad when younger, did he spout random kids with random women - that even he might not have known about (yet).

    If, say, his parents had a hidden love child born at any point, that hidden love child would be a half-sibling of the deceased - and I think halves don't inherit if there's a full blood relative. But if it was the same parents and that child were simply brought up as a cousin by Aunt Bet without any formal adoption taking place ...then it might only be now that somebody says something to him and says "of course.... they were your parents too".

    But certainly investigate insurance if you've any niggling doubts, this is insurance to protect you against "unknown now, but people with a valid claim that turn up out of the woodwork long after we've spent the money".

    You never can tell with families these days!
    Last edited by PasturesNew; 07-02-2018 at 3:28 PM.
    • jackyann
    • By jackyann 7th Feb 18, 10:29 PM
    • 3,326 Posts
    • 7,817 Thanks
    jackyann
    I do agree about checking for a will - we had a similar relative and it turned out there was a will written 40 years before his death!
    However, I wouldn't get too worried about searching - as you gather paperwork and clear the house you can look for it.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 7th Feb 18, 11:26 PM
    • 3,694 Posts
    • 3,012 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    Plenty of on line resources to get share prices suitable for probate valuations no need to go tracking down the FT.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    Only if the estate is not likely to be liable for IHT. If it is then an accurate valuation is needed.
    • Misslayed
    • By Misslayed 8th Feb 18, 12:57 PM
    • 4,026 Posts
    • 21,123 Thanks
    Misslayed
    I seem to remember getting a folder called "What to do when someone dies" from the undertaker (or possibly the registrar).
    I too have handled an estate myself, although on both occasions there was a very simple will, and inheritance tax did not apply. If I remember rightly there are a lot of questions to answer, but the answer to most of them is "No". I would have had to supply the information to a solicitor to fill in the form for me. There is a helpline, which was actually very helpful. It took time, but a friend who is a solicitor said it would have cost me about £7000 for him to do it.
    Hi. Martin has asked me to tell you I'm a (novice) Board Guide on the Competitions, Site Feedback and Campaigns boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with abuse). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.
    • Ali71
    • By Ali71 12th Feb 18, 7:49 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Ali71
    Hi all,


    Thanks for all the really helpful replies again, my partner asked me today about CGT on the brothers house. He had been reading about being liable to CGT on a second home if you don't live there? I think once things are done the house will be transferred in to his name, although he lives with me he doesn't own any part of my house, name on the deeds is and always has been mine. I bought my first flat then this house myself, so he would only actually own one house, (the brothers) and will probably be selling it once everything is settled. I don't think he will be liable to CGT on selling it, is there any CGT liability in this circumstance please? Any advice appreciated. Posted this on tax too as wasn't sure which one to post on. Many thanks everyone. Sorry if I sound a bit daft.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 12th Feb 18, 10:29 PM
    • 4,532 Posts
    • 4,963 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    As per the answer on the saving tax forum, there is no CGT on inherited property, unless you have gains above your annual allowance between inheriting and selling and do not occupy the property.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 12th Feb 18, 10:29 PM
    • 36,674 Posts
    • 154,768 Thanks
    silvercar
    is there any CGT liability in this circumstance please?
    No CGT on death, however many properties are owned.

    The only time you may see CGT is if the property is inherited at a value of X (value at death) and by the time the sale takes place the property has increased in value between the time of sale and the value at death. Then there may (depending on personal circumstances) be a CGT liability on the difference.
    • tealady
    • By tealady 13th Feb 18, 5:59 AM
    • 2,767 Posts
    • 3,297 Thanks
    tealady
    Hi
    When you visit the Register Office ask about the "tell us once" service. IF they offer this then the people there will contact some official organizations for you.
    I know someone who used this service recently and found it very helpful.
    Also the gov.uk website might have some useful info for you.
    HTH
    Proud to be an MSE nerd
    Judge people by their achievements, not by their mistakes
    • Ali71
    • By Ali71 13th Feb 18, 8:12 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Ali71
    Hi many thanks for the replies. We went to the house today, it was the first time I had ever seen it. I can now understand why my partner never wanted me to visit the "family home". It is an absolute hovel. Literally I am in shock at how someone could live like that. I think it will have to be an auction job. Still, starting to go through papers, will just have to make list of everyone that needs telling. Hopefully we can use Tell Us Once. Should hopefully get Death cert this week. Thanks everyone.
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