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  • FIRST POST
    • louiemiro
    • By louiemiro 7th Feb 18, 12:09 AM
    • 11Posts
    • 11Thanks
    louiemiro
    UKPCM PCN "Outside of Marked Bay"
    • #1
    • 7th Feb 18, 12:09 AM
    UKPCM PCN "Outside of Marked Bay" 7th Feb 18 at 12:09 AM
    Hello. I've scoured some, but not found any threads on this.
    in mid Jan got a UKCPM PCN stuck to car, in a carpark outside Halfords, Pavilion Retail Park, Brighton, BN2 3QA. This is a site with no overhead cameras as far as can be seen.

    Sadly, before leaving foolishly someone didn't read that the ticket was for parking "outside of a marked bay".
    That someone had looked at the ticket for a long time at home, realising that the times observed and times of issue were well within the allowed stay time, and concluded.... They've made a boo boo!
    Then "someone" saw that they weren't issuing for being over time, but for parking "outside of a marked bay". This flabbergasted all concerned as "someone" is usually a stickler for being IN a bay.
    The carpark was almost completely empty when car arrived (a sunday) and someone may not have been absolutely perfectly careful about exact position as someone usually is... but likely no more than a fraction of an inch here perhaps in an almost completely empty car park? Come on!?

    Later saw the reason for issue at home, and realised someone hadn't photos of the exact position of the car before someone had driven it away.

    Someone is Sure the car WAS in a bay, or if not, was only slightly out, AND there was (we have images for proof) a long and 18" wide strip of concrete "bandage" over one of the lines of the bay (which obscured the line). that someone is sure they parked in.

    Someone's (rarely attached) cycle rack could have been sticking out the back of the bay a bit they suppose, but cycle racks on cars? do people get tickets for those?

    Someone went in the Halfords on the Monday, they said they couldn't have the company recind the ticket, but they kindly checked their security (not parking) CCTV camera (A low level cam within which said car sadly juuust didn't feature in at the angle it was on their building ) to try to provide me with evidence (a print-out of a screenshot) of the driver's correct parking. They couldn't. They showed the best shot their cam could offer, and the car was just out of it's angle of view.

    So... The only evidence therefore of the car being, or not being, over any lines must be held by any hand held camera of this seemingly overzealous attendant IF he/she had one, held it, pointed it and used it.

    This evidence hasn't been presented yet (If it exists)
    Doth one ignore, or send an appeal? If so... does the someone write a letter... or use their appeals process?

    Sorry if this asks ALL the same questions as in other threads, someone is green and have no real experience fighting appeals.

    Thanks in advance. Happy to be shouted at and treated as a child. Go.
    Last edited by louiemiro; 07-02-2018 at 9:55 AM.
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 7th Feb 18, 12:20 AM
    • 40,938 Posts
    • 81,719 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 7th Feb 18, 12:20 AM
    • #2
    • 7th Feb 18, 12:20 AM
    Delete all of that and start again. Only ever refer to The Driver and The Keeper. Never reveal the identity of the driver. Never say who did what.

    Do it now!

    Then, read the Sticky thread for NEWBIEs before sending the appeal template you will find there.

    Do not come back here until you have edited your original post!

    Start by deleting everything, rewriting something like, editing in process, and click save. The start all over again.

    Don't hang about. DO IT NOW! Parking scammers read these fora.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 07-02-2018 at 12:24 AM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Feb 18, 12:44 AM
    • 53,962 Posts
    • 67,647 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 7th Feb 18, 12:44 AM
    • #3
    • 7th Feb 18, 12:44 AM
    Halfords, Pavilion Retail Park, Brighton, BN2 3QA
    I am familiar with the location.

    We are familiar with this scam industry! No appeal will work but Halfords CAN rescind it.

    Do read the NEWBIES FAQS sticky thread, and send the template appeal even though it won't stop the firm, it does send them a message that you are on MSE and looks better if they later try a small claim (very defendable).

    No saying or implying who parked, no adding words to the template appeal. Yes it does fit your circs.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 7th Feb 18, 1:01 AM
    • 40,938 Posts
    • 81,719 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #4
    • 7th Feb 18, 1:01 AM
    • #4
    • 7th Feb 18, 1:01 AM
    Great. Another motorist who comes on, makes a post, then baggers off without waiting for a reply.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 7th Feb 18, 1:45 AM
    • 5,640 Posts
    • 4,332 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #5
    • 7th Feb 18, 1:45 AM
    • #5
    • 7th Feb 18, 1:45 AM
    A couple of hundred yards from The Gladstone pub.

    How appropriate.
    .
    • louiemiro
    • By louiemiro 7th Feb 18, 9:59 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    louiemiro
    • #6
    • 7th Feb 18, 9:59 AM
    • #6
    • 7th Feb 18, 9:59 AM
    Fruitcake

    "Great. Another motorist who comes on, makes a post, then baggers off without waiting for a reply."

    Thanks muchly for your help and advice, but... Give me break. I haven't boggared off. I need to sleep as have small children to care for early in morn, so 1am forums ain't my ting.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 7th Feb 18, 10:44 AM
    • 2,055 Posts
    • 3,652 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    • #7
    • 7th Feb 18, 10:44 AM
    • #7
    • 7th Feb 18, 10:44 AM
    @louiemiro

    If you pass that way again, can you get a pic of the signs. There is no reason NOT to park outside the bay unless the signs specifically restrict it. It is always down to the wording on the signs, whether the signs they say were there were in fact there, and if they have a valid contract for the site.

    So can you get a pic of the signs.

    PS An additional point is how far out of the bay as sometimes it is "de minimis" - so small it doesn't bare making a fuss about.
    Idiots please note: If you intend NOT to read the information on the Notice of Allocation and hand a simple win to the knuckle dragging ex-clampers, then don't waste people's time with questions on a claim you'll not defend.
    • louiemiro
    • By louiemiro 7th Feb 18, 10:45 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    louiemiro
    • #8
    • 7th Feb 18, 10:45 AM
    • #8
    • 7th Feb 18, 10:45 AM
    I am familiar with the location.

    We are familiar with this scam industry! No appeal will work but Halfords CAN rescind it.

    Do read the NEWBIES FAQS sticky thread, and send the template appeal even though it won't stop the firm, it does send them a message that you are on MSE and looks better if they later try a small claim (very defendable).

    No saying or implying who parked, no adding words to the template appeal. Yes it does fit your circs.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Thank you Coupon.
    Where to find Any threads (it's a bit of a jungle) that deal with either that retail park, that Halfords,? The woman there we spoke to a said she was duty manager and couldn't recind. Best next steps suggestions welcomed for that line of approach (as well as appeal).
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 7th Feb 18, 10:49 AM
    • 1,692 Posts
    • 1,899 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #9
    • 7th Feb 18, 10:49 AM
    • #9
    • 7th Feb 18, 10:49 AM
    Have you read the NEWBIES thread, as told?

    The actual circumstances are mostly irrelevant, hence why there is atemplate appeal

    if you really want to look, then use the forum search BY POST using sensible search terms 0- you need ot only return the posts, otherwise you get large numbers of threads when all you want is the individual entry.
    • louiemiro
    • By louiemiro 7th Feb 18, 10:49 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    louiemiro
    @louiemiro

    If you pass that way again, can you get a pic of the signs. There is no reason NOT to park outside the bay unless the signs specifically restrict it. It is always down to the wording on the signs, whether the signs they say were there were in fact there, and if they have a valid contract for the site.

    So can you get a pic of the signs.

    PS An additional point is how far out of the bay as sometimes it is "de minimis" - so small it doesn't bare making a fuss about.
    Originally posted by IamEmanresu
    Good morning and thanks. We do have pics of signs and yes they state no parking outside. bays.
    • louiemiro
    • By louiemiro 7th Feb 18, 10:52 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    louiemiro
    Have you read the NEWBIES thread, as told?

    The actual circumstances are mostly irrelevant, hence why there is atemplate appeal

    if you really want to look, then use the forum search BY POST using sensible search terms 0- you need ot only return the posts, otherwise you get large numbers of threads when all you want is the individual entry.
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    Thanks Noseratu I'll try again. Navigating forum fiddly nearly as navigating PCN's.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 7th Feb 18, 11:00 AM
    • 8,143 Posts
    • 7,430 Thanks
    The Deep
    If this were to get to court they might struggle, read this

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_minimis


    Also, can you please watch this


    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41


    then complain to your MP. Demanding £100 for such a trifle is clearly a scam. How possibly can your heinous crime have cost them £100.
    Last edited by The Deep; 07-02-2018 at 11:04 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 7th Feb 18, 11:01 AM
    • 40,938 Posts
    • 81,719 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Fruitcake

    "Great. Another motorist who comes on, makes a post, then baggers off without waiting for a reply."

    Thanks muchly for your help and advice, but... Give me break. I haven't boggared off. I need to sleep as have small children to care for early in morn, so 1am forums ain't my ting.
    Originally posted by louiemiro

    My apologies. I meant no offence but was frustrated and concerned that you had posted incriminating evidence that is damaging to your case, and then logged out without waiting even a few minutes to check for a reply.
    Parking companies really do monitor this forum, and have used posts against motorists during the appeal stage and in court.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • louiemiro
    • By louiemiro 7th Feb 18, 11:21 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    louiemiro
    My apologies. I meant no offence but was frustrated and concerned that you had posted incriminating evidence that is damaging to your case, and then logged out without waiting even a few minutes to check for a reply.
    Parking companies really do monitor this forum, and have used posts against motorists during the appeal stage and in court.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    I fully understand that frustration at we who blithely spill all in front of the scammers. Had been v Long day, and knew I wouldn't be a human parent if didn't hit hay. Thanks for all your advice so far.
    • louiemiro
    • By louiemiro 7th Feb 18, 11:28 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    louiemiro
    If this were to get to court they might struggle, read this

    then complain to your MP. Demanding £100 for such a trifle is clearly a scam. How possibly can your heinous crime have cost them £100.
    Originally posted by The Deep
    Excellent. Thanks Deep! will digest . Have a good day.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Feb 18, 1:46 PM
    • 53,962 Posts
    • 67,647 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Thank you Coupon.
    Where to find Any threads (it's a bit of a jungle) that deal with either that retail park, that Halfords,? The woman there we spoke to a said she was duty manager and couldn't recind. Best next steps suggestions welcomed for that line of approach (as well as appeal).
    Originally posted by louiemiro
    You don't need that retail park/that Halfords.

    Complain online on Facebook/Twitter to Halfords Social Media Team, or write to their CEO (Google them).

    UKCPM will otherwise sue you this year (defendable but stressful). We do see 99% wins for well-prepped and coached posters though.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • louiemiro
    • By louiemiro 7th Feb 18, 9:56 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    louiemiro
    You don't need that retail park/that Halfords.

    Complain online on Facebook/Twitter to Halfords Social Media Team, or write to their CEO (Google them).

    UKCPM will otherwise sue you this year (defendable but stressful). We do see 99% wins for well-prepped and coached posters though.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Thank you CM. I tried both.

    Got this so far.... first from Halfords Customer Services re: shop exterior/ parking fines

    Dear ******* ********

    Thanks for getting in touch.
    Unfortunately the car park is the private property of the landlord.
    The landlord has agreed terms and conditions direct with a parking company who then manage the car park on their behalf.
    Because of this arrangement Halfords has no ability to influence individual disputes.
    I am sorry that we can't be of more help on this occasion, however please rest assured that we do flag any trends we see in disputes to the landlord.
    Kind regards,
    Wayne Moore
    Customer Support Advisor

    And on Social media:

    Hi there, I can see that my colleague has e-mailed you in regards to this asking for the PCN letter, if you could e-mail this in to us in reply to that message, we will be able to correspond via that e-mail thread. Thanks, Bran.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Feb 18, 9:58 PM
    • 53,962 Posts
    • 67,647 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Ask who the landlord is, so you can escalate the complaint.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 7th Feb 18, 10:32 PM
    • 6,940 Posts
    • 9,031 Thanks
    beamerguy

    Got this so far.... first from Halfords Customer Services re: shop exterior/ parking fines
    Originally posted by louiemiro
    Did you actually contact the CEO ??

    Whilst this maybe out of the hands of Halfords, they have
    a duty towards their customers.
    You need to request that the CEO acts on your behalf
    as a valued customer and to contact the landowner to
    intervene and get this cancelled. Landowners can do this.

    Tell the CEO that Halfords is not an Honourable company
    and you expect them to look after their customers

    Halfords Group Plc

    Ms Jill McDonald Chief Executive

    Email jill.mcdonald@halfords.co.uk
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Feb 18, 11:16 PM
    • 53,962 Posts
    • 67,647 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Woah, isn't she the woman who used to be McDonalds CEO, and she always fobbed complainants off when people complained to her about PPC scams in McD's car parks?!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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