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  • FIRST POST
    • palasmy
    • By palasmy 6th Feb 18, 10:29 PM
    • 87Posts
    • 12Thanks
    palasmy
    Burnt clutch - hire vehicle
    • #1
    • 6th Feb 18, 10:29 PM
    Burnt clutch - hire vehicle 6th Feb 18 at 10:29 PM
    Hi

    I had recently rented a Talento (10 seater) from Green motion and I'm now being charged 400 + 2200 pounds for a windscreen damage and a burnt clutch.

    Basically, I rented the vehicle on a friday night from Gatwick, the vehicle was shown as fit for renting with no issues in the standard forms that they generate for their fleet when they rent them out. But they said since it was dark to closely examine anything in detail if I find any significant damage, I should be reporting it the next day before 10 am. I drove the vehicle from Gatwick to Tonbridge (32 miles), admittedly there wasn't any smell in the vehicle at that time. The next day morning I again drove the vehicle back to Crawley (nearly same distance), but on the way back there was a strong smell in the vehicle. Dismissing it for some outside roadworks (happening at that time), managed to return to tonbridge. However, that afternoon when I took the vehicle out the smell was again there, which is when I felt there was something not right. Then it was reported to the Assistance people, the guys after doing some checks and test drives commented it definitely smells like clutch but there appears to be no issues with the mechanics as it drives fine.
    However, I insisted for a replacement vehicle and green motion after checking the reports from the roadside assistance company agreed to replace it with an another talento that same night.
    When I was there to pick up my replacement vehicle, the people on duty initially said the only Talento that they had, had a windscreen damage to it and so it can't be rented out. But then after few minutes, they came back to me and said actually the damaged vehicle was already sent out to garage and the vehicle they had was fit for renting. In a desperate need for vehicle it never struck me to double check the windscreen at that hour. But then when I returned the vehicle on Monday night, the guy who checked the vehicle claimed that the windscreen has been damaged during my renting. And it was so obvious that the way he checked that spot seemed so artificial, one the damage was in a place that even a normal check wouldn't have shown it as it was right beneath the wiper on the black band of the windscreen almost at the meeting point with the bonnet and two, his body language was so obvious that he was going to find something. Apparently, it turns out that he was the person to check this vehicle after it was returned from previous hire. So, the possibility that he could have missed this the last time and now to save himself from the trouble tries to put it on my head.

    I'm now completely lost with amount that I have been asked to pay and also don't know how to dispute this claim as I genuinely feel both the damages aren't due to me. I have had a UK license for 10 years and strongly feel that the clutch was probably already worn out and I was really unlucky that it burnt out during my hire.

    And the windscreen damage clearly appears like a preplanned event given the conversations I had during the vehicle replacement time.

    Greenmotion have sent me the following mail about the clutch and have already charged me for the windscreen.

    Would really appreciate people's suggestions and comments on this issue and on how I could go about this whole incident.

    "Thank you for your emails. Firstly please accept my apologies for the delay in coming back to you. The reason for this was as diuscussed on the phone previously a few parts needed for the repairs were on back order. Now that the repairs have been completed we are able to submit our final outlay to you for the clutch that was burnt whilst in your possession.

    Whilst I appreciate charging for items such as a clutch replacement is far from an ideal way to end of hire, we do on occasions need to do this. In order to avoid any non-expert opinion, I have asked a number of vehicle technicians for their view. You can obviously do the same. If a clutch was to fail due to general wear and tear, both sides of the clutch plate would wear away at the same or a similar rate. As you can see from the attachments this is not the case.

    Once again, while I do appreciate that this is not an easy thing to accept, it is a reasonably simple thing for us to prove. In the opinion of the repair agents and other people that we have spoken to, the speed at which the failure occurred and the nature of the wear to the clutch parts suggests damage that occurred swiftly (i.e. not over thousands of miles) and as a result of the user at the time. Therefore based on this opinion, we are looking to you for the costs incurred for the damage to the clutch.

    In order to make payment please go to www.glir.co.uk. The amount due is shown below. You also have the invoice fully declaring the main costs that we incurred. I hope this helps and I look forward to hearing from you shortly.
    "

    I have the photos of the clutch that green motion has sent me but I couldn't attach it here, but if anyone has such technical / mechanical expertise on this then please let me know I can email them to you for reference.

    Really sad and totally lost...

    Thanks all for your help
    P
Page 2
    • Zandoni
    • By Zandoni 8th Feb 18, 6:50 AM
    • 2,737 Posts
    • 1,461 Thanks
    Zandoni
    What proof is there that any supplied pictures are from the vehicle you hired. I'd let them take it to court.
    • arcon5
    • By arcon5 8th Feb 18, 8:21 AM
    • 13,387 Posts
    • 8,496 Thanks
    arcon5
    Id go one further and threaten to counter claim to have any extra costs you incurred reimbursed as a result of having to return the faulty vehicle they supplied.

    I'd expect both sides of the friction plate to be worn as a result of slipping.

    Personally I'd cancel the card so they can't use it and dispute the windscreen claim. In fact I'd do that in person and have it out with the guy who originally mentioned about the windscreen and see if he has the nerve to deny it to your face.

    That excess is very high though. I've never seen an excess higher than £1k, even with van hire companies. Personally never seen a higher company wanting 2.5k excess
    • palasmy
    • By palasmy 8th Feb 18, 12:39 PM
    • 87 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    palasmy
    Id go one further and threaten to counter claim to have any extra costs you incurred reimbursed as a result of having to return the faulty vehicle they supplied.
    Originally posted by arcon5
    I'd expect both sides of the friction plate to be worn as a result of slipping.

    Personally I'd cancel the card so they can't use it and dispute the windscreen claim. In fact I'd do that in person and have it out with the guy who originally mentioned about the windscreen and see if he has the nerve to deny it to your face.

    That excess is very high though. I've never seen an excess higher than £1k, even with van hire companies. Personally never seen a higher company wanting 2.5k excess
    Originally posted by arcon5

    Just seems like it was a well pre-meditated plan. As suggested previously, I think I will get an independent engineer's thought as a first step. I will ask them for the vehicle's location details and take it from there.

    I'm also going to instruct my bank to deny any payments from them on my card. Don't want to cancel my card for the sake of them...
    • palasmy
    • By palasmy 8th Feb 18, 12:40 PM
    • 87 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    palasmy
    What proof is there that any supplied pictures are from the vehicle you hired. I'd let them take it to court.
    Originally posted by Zandoni
    I agree with you, although they did send me another picture of the vehicle in a dismantled state, again no gurantee that the actual parts themselves are from it...
    • palasmy
    • By palasmy 9th Feb 18, 10:42 AM
    • 87 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    palasmy
    Just as an update, the icarhire has said that they don't cover internal / mechanical damages in their policies and only cover the external damages that occur due to accidents.

    So, I think I really have very little choice other than to just get an independent opinion first and then fight it out. Would it be best to first argue the case for further evidences from the rental company to prove it was my fault before offering an independent engineer visit Or should I just seek the neutral opinion first, bit confused here...

    Anyway I have drafted an email like below for the rental company, would really appreciate your comments and views on the words.

    Thanks


    "
    I would like to dispute both the claims (Windscreen and Clutch). For the windscreen I have already been charged without my consent and also have been given no report on the promised investigation on the issue until now. So, please can I request that this be looked into soonest.

    For the clutch, as suggested by you in your mail, I would like to get an independent engineer to come around and inspect the clutch in its current state. So, please can you provide me with the relevant details of the location of the vehicle and also the contact person to organise this visit.

    Just be aware that should the inspection conclude that the damage isn't due to me purely then I would be pressing the following charges against Green Motion.


    1. Cost of the time and effort spent by me to come and get the vehicle exchanged during my hire time.

    2. Engineer's fees plus the money spent to schedule the visit for the inspection

    3. Appropriate charges for the mental stress caused due to this issue for no fault of mine."
    • sillygoose
    • By sillygoose 9th Feb 18, 11:54 AM
    • 4,360 Posts
    • 5,619 Thanks
    sillygoose
    Just as an update, the icarhire has said that they don't cover internal / mechanical damages in their policies and only cover the external damages that occur due to accidents.

    So, I think I really have very little choice other than to just get an independent opinion first and then fight it out. Would it be best to first argue the case for further evidences from the rental company to prove it was my fault before offering an independent engineer visit Or should I just seek the neutral opinion first, bit confused here...

    Anyway I have drafted an email like below for the rental company, would really appreciate your comments and views on the words.

    Thanks


    "
    I would like to dispute both the claims (Windscreen and Clutch). For the windscreen I have already been charged without my consent and also have been given no report on the promised investigation on the issue until now. So, please can I request that this be looked into soonest.

    For the clutch, as suggested by you in your mail, I would like to get an independent engineer to come around and inspect the clutch in its current state. So, please can you provide me with the relevant details of the location of the vehicle and also the contact person to organise this visit.

    Just be aware that should the inspection conclude that the damage isn't due to me purely then I would be pressing the following charges against Green Motion.


    1. Cost of the time and effort spent by me to come and get the vehicle exchanged during my hire time.

    2. Engineer's fees plus the money spent to schedule the visit for the inspection

    3. Appropriate charges for the mental stress caused due to this issue for no fault of mine."
    Originally posted by palasmy
    I don't think you will 'pressing charges' its a civil not criminal situation. You will be starting proceeding to recover costs..

    1. Time and effort would be difficult to quantify, generally you can go to court to recover actual loss, such as probably lost income due to missing work, extra fuel you had to buy, train travel home.

    3. Again its not possible to put a value on stress, I would drop that one, unless you can get a receipt from a psychologist for counselling and prove it was a direct consequence of the issues.

    Stick to costs you can prove with documentation you directly incurred and you would have a reasonable chance.

    (engineers bill, train ticket, payslip showing docked pay, fuel receipt, receipt for alternative hired car etc..)
    • palasmy
    • By palasmy 9th Feb 18, 12:29 PM
    • 87 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    palasmy
    Thanks sillygoose, to keep things simple I think you are right to just only claim for only what is proveable with documents.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 9th Feb 18, 1:15 PM
    • 3,964 Posts
    • 4,021 Thanks
    DoaM
    And get that windscreen charge reversed by your bank/card provider. Or at least put it in dispute.
    Diary of a madman
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    • palasmy
    • By palasmy 10th Feb 18, 10:02 AM
    • 87 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    palasmy
    Hello All, spoke to Green motion yesterday, the customer service agent wasn't very polite. He was so rude and rigid that he didn't care what I was trying to say even, simply told me off by saying 'I don't need to be told how to do my job'.. which was a shocker to me. All I said was since they had already repaired the car and put it on the road, they have simply deprived me of the chance to do the inspection of the vehicle and the damage by an independent engineer.

    He claims the garage they have used is a valid independent one and that the garage can be contacted for any further queries. But then if the vehicle has already been fixed, how do we know the actual condition of the damage, it is basically too late for anything isn't it. Just by sending few pictures we can't be held liable for it. As many already pointed out here, it can be from any vehicle..

    The customer service are so adamant and looks like they have been trained to talk in such a way and scare their customers. He was warning me that there is only 28 days time frame for me to pay otherwise they will take legal action.

    I have blocked my card. But then I don't know how to take things forward from here. I'm not keen to engage anyone to talk to the garage as I know this is just a waste of time as that garage is in the same location as their office and pretty sure they dance according to green motion's tune.

    And similarly they haven't invoiced me for the windscreen damage yet although they have charged me already for it. When asked about the pending investigation, he repeated the same comment that this has been charged correctly and the invoice will take few weeks to come to you if you need it for your claims purposes. Just arrogant!!!

    I really want to teach them a hard lesson and don't mind taking this to any extent legally... please help
    • esmerobbo
    • By esmerobbo 10th Feb 18, 2:31 PM
    • 4,693 Posts
    • 6,169 Thanks
    esmerobbo
    Does anyone else think looking at that pressure plate and centre plate it looks as if they have been washed. If they where burnt they would be covered in dust if they were contaminated with oil they would have a coating of oil.

    Look at the recesses for the rivets they are full of dust or oil yet the centre of the plate is clean. The few marks on the plates look like the solvent used to clean them has dried on the surface.

    On the friction surface we can see, it looks as if there is an amount of life left in it. If the other side is similar I would think to have a slipping clutch it would be down to oil or a faulty pressure plate.

    It would be interesting to know how many miles the car has covered.

    If a clutch was destroyed in 30 odd miles I would expect it to look a lot worse then that.
    • palasmy
    • By palasmy 10th Feb 18, 2:51 PM
    • 87 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    palasmy
    Does anyone else think looking at that pressure plate and centre plate it looks as if they have been washed. If they where burnt they would be covered in dust if they were contaminated with oil they would have a coating of oil.

    Look at the recesses for the rivets they are full of dust or oil yet the centre of the plate is clean. The few marks on the plates look like the solvent used to clean them has dried on the surface.

    On the friction surface we can see, it looks as if there is an amount of life left in it. If the other side is similar I would think to have a slipping clutch it would be down to oil or a faulty pressure plate.

    It would be interesting to know how many miles the car has covered.

    If a clutch was destroyed in 30 odd miles I would expect it to look a lot worse then that.
    Originally posted by esmerobbo

    I don't have the old rental agreement unfortunately to give u the exact miles, they took it back when they replaced it. But I think it had done around 10k miles for sure. And to be exact the I had done ~60 miles when I first felt the issue and then there after another 40 miles maybe...
    • palasmy
    • By palasmy 13th Feb 18, 6:17 AM
    • 87 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    palasmy
    Hi

    Can I approach the Citizen advice bureau for some legal advice on this subject or should I seek from a professional solicitor.

    I'm attaching the images of the clutch again so that more people can offer their advice on the technical aspect of this..

    http://www.filehosting.org/file/details/723816/2018-02-01-PHOTO-00000102.jpg

    http://www.filehosting.org/file/details/723817/2018-02-01-PHOTO-00000103.jpg

    Thanks
    • arcon5
    • By arcon5 13th Feb 18, 6:47 AM
    • 13,387 Posts
    • 8,496 Thanks
    arcon5
    You dont initiate legal action, they do. Send a letter stating your final position and see what they do next
    • Zandoni
    • By Zandoni 13th Feb 18, 6:47 AM
    • 2,737 Posts
    • 1,461 Thanks
    Zandoni
    Green Motion seem to be a rental company to avoid, there's so many other complaints about.

    https://green-motion.!!!!edconsumer.com/we-had-to-buy-a-new-clutch-and-pay-for-a-hire-car-while-it-was-done-20161114954517.html

    Change the 4 exclamation marks for the swear word that rhyme's with hiss.
    Last edited by Zandoni; 13-02-2018 at 6:50 AM.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 13th Feb 18, 8:46 AM
    • 3,964 Posts
    • 4,021 Thanks
    DoaM
    You dont initiate legal action, they do. Send a letter stating your final position and see what they do next
    Originally posted by arcon5
    If OP's bank/card provider don't refund the windscreen charge then OP could initiate legal action for the return of that money.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • palasmy
    • By palasmy 14th Feb 18, 10:23 PM
    • 87 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    palasmy
    Green Motion seem to be a rental company to avoid, there's so many other complaints about.

    https://green-motion.!!!!edconsumer.com/we-had-to-buy-a-new-clutch-and-pay-for-a-hire-car-while-it-was-done-20161114954517.html

    Change the 4 exclamation marks for the swear word that rhyme's with hiss.
    Originally posted by Zandoni
    Thanks Zandoni..

    That clearly shows greenmotion has a history and reputation for such things...

    Explains why the staff are so ignorant and arrogant, no matter what I have decided to take this through the legal process.
    They have given me 28 days to pay, will wait until the last one week before I declare my stand to them.
    • palasmy
    • By palasmy 14th Feb 18, 10:30 PM
    • 87 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    palasmy
    If OP's bank/card provider don't refund the windscreen charge then OP could initiate legal action for the return of that money.
    Originally posted by DoaM
    I'm following this up separately but have to admit not getting a prompt reply from the person looking into it.

    Will keep trying though... if not as you suggest may consider seeking some legal advice.
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