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  • FIRST POST
    • jimmypick
    • By jimmypick 6th Feb 18, 5:48 PM
    • 30Posts
    • 2Thanks
    jimmypick
    Brand-new Wickes hob top shatters in weeks
    • #1
    • 6th Feb 18, 5:48 PM
    Brand-new Wickes hob top shatters in weeks 6th Feb 18 at 5:48 PM
    Hi all,

    My wife and I bought a new kitchen from Wickes before Christmas, which included an Electrolux electric hob top.

    Within a matter of weeks, it has shattered. My wife moved a saucepan from one hob to another and the saucepan lid slid off from a height of around 4 inches. It hit the glass edge and the hob top has shattered.

    We phoned the Wickes store and were very disappointed with their customer service. We had to phone seven times over a fortnight before we got anywhere.

    Their decision, after consulting with Electrolux, is to offer us a new hob top at a reduced price of £126. We wanted a replacement for free and that they would pay for the installation.

    Am I entitled to this and how can I go about achieving this?
Page 2
    • jimmypick
    • By jimmypick 6th Feb 18, 9:26 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    jimmypick
    You can issue court proceedings. You’ve exhausted he complaint route.

    The problem is proving your case in court, which will require an expert to look at the hob and assess the damage. This all starts to get rather expensive, and you cannot be sure that you have a case until you see the report.

    If you issue proceedings the shop may not wish to defend, but you cannot rely on it.
    Originally posted by GDB2222
    Thanks for this. If it gets that far, would it be through the small claims and if I were to lose would I be at any risks for costs liability?

    I don't think the complaint route is exhausted yet. We've only spoken to the store, not Wickes centrally.

    I think my problem (and on this thread too) may be the use of the word "shattering" which conjures an image of broken glass everywhere, which implies we were extremely careless. The damage is very small but the hob is impaired.
    • zoob
    • By zoob 6th Feb 18, 9:31 PM
    • 205 Posts
    • 96 Thanks
    zoob
    Unless its shattered or an obvious crack in hob when you took it out of its packing the hob was more than lightly fine when you got it and didnt have a fault.
    A lot of times when glass shatters very early in life is due to hob not being installed correctly, most common being the hob being clamped down to tightly at one edge from underneath, this puts a tension on the surface and it can be shattered very easily and thats sounds like the issue here.
    Last edited by zoob; 06-02-2018 at 9:33 PM.
    • GDB2222
    • By GDB2222 7th Feb 18, 7:14 AM
    • 14,261 Posts
    • 76,791 Thanks
    GDB2222
    Thanks for this. If it gets that far, would it be through the small claims and if I were to lose would I be at any risks for costs liability?

    I don't think the complaint route is exhausted yet. We've only spoken to the store, not Wickes centrally.

    I think my problem (and on this thread too) may be the use of the word "shattering" which conjures an image of broken glass everywhere, which implies we were extremely careless. The damage is very small but the hob is impaired.
    Originally posted by jimmypick
    Unlikely you’d have costs awarded against you, but the court does have discretion even on the small claims track. There are court fees to pay, and you would only get them back if successful. Plus the expert fee, which would be several hundred pounds.

    I wouldn’t recommend going to court. There are risks, and the offer you have received is quite good. If you issue proceedings I assume they’ll withdraw that offer.
    No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?
    • peachyprice
    • By peachyprice 7th Feb 18, 9:15 AM
    • 19,096 Posts
    • 44,098 Thanks
    peachyprice
    Thanks for this reply. I have student houses and have never had any sort of crack in a ceramic hob top - and judging by the mess they're left in, they're not exactly looked after!

    My wife says she was very careful - she's hardly dropped something heavy! the problem appears to be that it hit the very edge. It's made a small chip and there's a crack gone along one of the hobs. I can't believe that something can be sold that's so flimsy and not fit for purpose and that the customer isn't entitled to a like-for-like replacement.

    I offered Wickes pictures but they weren't interested.
    Originally posted by jimmypick
    Dropping something on the edge of a ceramic hob will cause a large crack across the face , I learned this the hard way when I broke 2 in the space of 3 months. The first one I bought a replacement for, the second I claimed for on my insurance.

    It's not a fault, it's what happens when you drop something on the weakest part of the hob, i.e the very edge where it's at its thinest.

    I would take the money offered any use it to replace it with one with a metal surround.
    Last edited by peachyprice; 07-02-2018 at 9:19 AM.
    Accept your past without regret, handle your present with confidence and face your future without fear
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 7th Feb 18, 9:22 AM
    • 19,075 Posts
    • 50,391 Thanks
    Pollycat
    OK, thanks for this. This is quite helpful.

    Of course, my intention wasn't to drop saucepan lids, but I would have thought that would come under some sort of expected wear and tear. Lids sit on pans and sometimes at an angle to allow steam to escape. They must come off onto the hop quite often. I'm amazed that it was able to crack the glass top.
    Originally posted by jimmypick
    'wear and tear' is general usage.

    When you drop something onto something else, that's called 'accidental damage'.

    I'd take Wickes' offer,
    • ThumbRemote
    • By ThumbRemote 7th Feb 18, 9:47 AM
    • 3,857 Posts
    • 4,900 Thanks
    ThumbRemote
    The actual legislation in the consumer rights act states that goods must be of satisfactory quality. This is defined to include (among others) "fitness for all the purposes for which goods of that kind are usually supplied" and "durability". See http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/9/enacted and ignore the made-up rubbish from Greta Sharbo.

    Now I would suggest that small bumps from pans are a common occurrence when cooking, and any hob that cannot cope with that is not fit for normal cooking, nor is it suitably durable. In the first instance I'd write back to the retailer, quoting the law and asking them to reconsider. Then follow-up with a letter before action and small claims court proceedings.

    I can't see why you'd need some sort of independent report. Within the first six months after buying the product, any fault is presumed to have been there since the time of purchase unless the retailer proves otherwise. They've not even attempted this. Therefore either there is a fault, which is it the retailers job to fix, or the hob does this by design in which case it's not of satisfactory quality for normal cooking, and is also the retailers responsibility.

    By the way, it's not surprising that you got a whole host of posters saying how it's all your own fault. Unfortunately these boards are populated by a lot of people who don't understand the law (you'll note no-one actually quoted anything relevant) and whose only reason for posting it to blame the consumer. It's sad that MSE don't do anything about it to be honest.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 7th Feb 18, 9:53 AM
    • 19,075 Posts
    • 50,391 Thanks
    Pollycat
    The actual legislation in the consumer rights act states that goods must be of satisfactory quality. This is defined to include (among others) "fitness for all the purposes for which goods of that kind are usually supplied" and "durability". See http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/9/enacted and ignore the made-up rubbish from Greta Sharbo.

    Now I would suggest that small bumps from pans are a common occurrence when cooking, and any hob that cannot cope with that is not fit for normal cooking, nor is it suitably durable. In the first instance I'd write back to the retailer, quoting the law and asking them to reconsider. Then follow-up with a letter before action and small claims court proceedings.

    I can't see why you'd need some sort of independent report. Within the first six months after buying the product, any fault is presumed to have been there since the time of purchase unless the retailer proves otherwise. They've not even attempted this. Therefore either there is a fault, which is it the retailers job to fix, or the hob does this by design in which case it's not of satisfactory quality for normal cooking, and is also the retailers responsibility.

    By the way, it's not surprising that you got a whole host of posters saying how it's all your own fault. Unfortunately these boards are populated by a lot of people who don't understand the law (you'll note no-one actually quoted anything relevant) and whose only reason for posting it to blame the consumer. It's sad that MSE don't do anything about it to be honest.
    Originally posted by ThumbRemote
    I've had my ceramic hob for 25 years.
    I can't recall ever dropping a saucepan lid onto it.
    • ThumbRemote
    • By ThumbRemote 7th Feb 18, 10:04 AM
    • 3,857 Posts
    • 4,900 Thanks
    ThumbRemote
    I've had my ceramic hob for 25 years.
    I can't recall ever dropping a saucepan lid onto it.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    No, of course you can't. Perhaps you're perfect. Perhaps it's such a mundane event that no-one would recall something so trivial. Or perhaps you're just looking for a reason to blame the consumer.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 7th Feb 18, 10:09 AM
    • 19,075 Posts
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    Pollycat
    No, of course you can't. Perhaps you're perfect. Perhaps it's such a mundane event that no-one would recall something so trivial. Or perhaps you're just looking for a reason to blame the consumer.
    Originally posted by ThumbRemote
    Or perhaps I just have a good memory.

    You see the hob as 'not fit for normal cooking, nor is it suitably durable'.
    I see it as 'accidental damage'.
    • ThumbRemote
    • By ThumbRemote 7th Feb 18, 10:18 AM
    • 3,857 Posts
    • 4,900 Thanks
    ThumbRemote
    Or perhaps I just have a good memory.

    You see the hob as 'not fit for normal cooking, nor is it suitably durable'.
    I see it as 'accidental damage'.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    Lets face it, you'll claim anything if it allows you to blame the consumer.
    • George Michael
    • By George Michael 7th Feb 18, 10:40 AM
    • 2,962 Posts
    • 4,005 Thanks
    George Michael
    Lets face it, you'll claim anything if it allows you to blame the consumer.
    Originally posted by ThumbRemote
    No one has to blame the consumer for anything seeing as they have freely admitted that something was dropped onto the hob surface and it was this that caused the damage.
    It's made of glass. Glass shatters or cracks if impacted by a hard object hence the warning in the user manual which was posted by someone yesterday.

    Personally, I think the offer of a new hob for £126 when the original cost around £500 is a very good offer which the OP should take before it gets withdrawn.
    • Carrot007
    • By Carrot007 7th Feb 18, 10:48 AM
    • 923 Posts
    • 794 Thanks
    Carrot007
    For the record, in response to the last post, she slid the pan from the front to the back hob, the lid slipped off and hit the very edge of the ceramic top?
    Originally posted by jimmypick
    Sorry no one is being polite to you! Not enough time to do that these days it seems ;-)

    They are however just being matter of fact and not nasty.

    From the above it sounds like the pan is defective or not one to use on such a hob where the edge is weak (as ceramic edges are).

    And yes this was just a freak accident. My previous kitchen had a tiled floow. I dropped lot's on it and nothing happened. Then one day a frozen chicken breast was dropped and a chip occured. Such things happen and we can only blame ourselves.

    I had to dig out and replace the tile myself, you seem to have been offered a good deal.
    • LABMAN
    • By LABMAN 7th Feb 18, 10:48 AM
    • 775 Posts
    • 1,296 Thanks
    LABMAN
    Lets face it, you'll claim anything if it allows you to blame the consumer.
    Originally posted by ThumbRemote
    Let's face it, a great many of your posts on MSE tend to be critical of others who are trying to give advice. Remember you have given wrong advice on here (basic arithmetic fail) so wind your neck in.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 7th Feb 18, 11:14 AM
    • 19,075 Posts
    • 50,391 Thanks
    Pollycat
    Lets face it, you'll claim anything if it allows you to blame the consumer.
    Originally posted by ThumbRemote
    Let's face nothing.
    I don't claim anything that isn't the truth.
    The OP's wife dropped a saucepan lid on a ceramic hob.
    I've never done that.
    Believe what you will.

    Let's wait and see what Wickes' response is after the OP takes your advice and writes back to them 'quoting the law'.
    Then we'll review the situation after the LBA has been received by Wickes.
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 7th Feb 18, 12:23 PM
    • 4,894 Posts
    • 7,848 Thanks
    Gavin83
    I can't see why you'd need some sort of independent report. Within the first six months after buying the product, any fault is presumed to have been there since the time of purchase unless the retailer proves otherwise. They've not even attempted this. Therefore either there is a fault, which is it the retailers job to fix, or the hob does this by design in which case it's not of satisfactory quality for normal cooking, and is also the retailers responsibility.
    Originally posted by ThumbRemote
    No one is disputing the law on this, what people are disputing is that it's a fault. The OP dropped something on it, it cracked, I really don't see how this is the manufacturers fault. It's also entirely likely the OP has downplayed what happened. Of course ultimately it'll be up to a court to decide but they won't just disregard the circumstances.

    And no one is anti consumer here. When someone has a genuine case this forum backs them up but I, like many others here think it's primarily the OPs fault. No one has been rude on this topic and the advice has been sound.

    The OP is free to pursue this through the court if they feel they have a case but if they lose, best case scenario they'll be down the court fees and will lose the offer from Wickes, so ultimately about £500 down. Up to them if they consider it worth the risk.
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 7th Feb 18, 2:49 PM
    • 9,745 Posts
    • 10,950 Thanks
    shaun from Africa
    Within the first six months after buying the product, any fault is presumed to have been there since the time of purchase unless the retailer proves otherwise.
    Originally posted by ThumbRemote
    That's correct as far as it goes but you've left part of it out and the bit you've forgotten to mention is the most relevant part.

    (14)For the purposes of subsections (3)(b) and (c) and (4), goods which do not conform to the contract at any time within the period of six months beginning with the day on which the goods were delivered to the consumer must be taken not to have conformed to it on that day.
    (15)Subsection (14) does not apply if—
    (a)it is established that the goods did conform to the contract on that day, or
    (b)its application is incompatible with the nature of the goods or with how they fail to conform to the contract
    .
    (a) Was the hob shattered when supplied?
    No.
    (b) Was the shattered hob caused by something that was done to it after delivery?
    Yes.
    • Greta Sharbo
    • By Greta Sharbo 7th Feb 18, 6:30 PM
    • 153 Posts
    • 168 Thanks
    Greta Sharbo
    The actual legislation in the consumer rights act states that goods must be of satisfactory quality. This is defined to include (among others) "fitness for all the purposes for which goods of that kind are usually supplied" and "durability". See http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/9/enacted and ignore the made-up rubbish from Greta Sharbo.
    .
    Originally posted by ThumbRemote
    My post was specifically in relation to the OPs earlier post about cricket bats and tennis balls and how that relates to the law re 'fit for purpose'. Previous replies had already indicated that there needs to be an inherent fault.

    I wasnt suggesting that a (not) fit for purpose claim was relevant.
    • jimmypick
    • By jimmypick 19th Feb 18, 2:29 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    jimmypick
    Hi all,
    Just by way of update, Wickes did agree to supply us with a free replacement after we wrote to their head office.
    Thanks for the advice, in particular to ThumbRemote, who was one of the few on this thread to refer to what the law actually states.
    Wickes were very apologetic and the new hob is in place.
    I have to say I was quite surprised with some of the replies, but not to worry. The new hob is working beautifully
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 19th Feb 18, 2:41 PM
    • 4,022 Posts
    • 4,070 Thanks
    DoaM
    To be fair, post #36 gave the full, correct clarification. Wickes weren't legally obliged to do this but have done so because a) it is good customer service, and b) it is cheaper than potentially having to defend a court claim.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • jimmypick
    • By jimmypick 19th Feb 18, 2:55 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    jimmypick
    yes i think page 2 beats page 1 for quality and helpfulness of replies!
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