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  • FIRST POST
    • BrockStoker
    • By BrockStoker 5th Feb 18, 8:32 PM
    • 194Posts
    • 87Thanks
    BrockStoker
    Correction in progress!
    • #1
    • 5th Feb 18, 8:32 PM
    Correction in progress! 5th Feb 18 at 8:32 PM
    I've just seen the largest (single day) spike in volatility I've ever experienced (currently @ 106%). Certainly it's looking like this is going to be the largest correction since 2015!

    https://uk.investing.com/indices/volatility-s-p-500-chart

    Time to look at what to buy with the cash I've been holding!

    More inclined to look at overseas assets/equities, but I have been thinking about buying some UK micro-cap for a while, and possibly some Chinese equities. Any one else shopping right now?
Page 8
    • ColdIron
    • By ColdIron 6th Feb 18, 7:59 PM
    • 3,897 Posts
    • 4,752 Thanks
    ColdIron
    So if you purchased at 20:59 would you get todays price or have to wait for tomorrows?

    Thinking practically, if I were to boost my investment tonight, now, at 6.30pm UK time, will my order not go through until tomorrow nights 21:00? Do you know when the latest is you can make an order?
    Originally posted by JSCB
    The valuation point is just when the fund produces the price, it's not when the trade is made. Various platforms will have their own policies for receiving and placing orders. For instance they may say instructions received before 8:00AM or 11:00AM or whatever will be placed using the next valuation point. If you placed an order for Vanguard at 20:59 your platform will just add it to the pile of orders to be processed after their cut off time the next working day
    With shares you know the price, make the order and buy pretty much instantly, with funds it seems a bit drawn out, especially in times of volatility when you want to make the order with only the best knowledge you can, which ordering 24hours prior to knowing the buy price isn't really!
    With a company share it's easy to quote the price and strike a deal in real time, with a fund of maybe thousands of holdings, less so. Some funds may hold (perhaps illiquid) bonds, property, private equity etc where an accurate price may not be available for days, perhaps weeks. As I say funds are forward priced so you can't know what it will be, it's just the nature of funds. You're going to be holding these for years so I wouldn't get hung up about it. If it bothers you have a look at how Investment Trusts work. They are shares traded in real time, they have the same issue but you will be trading in shares of the company that owns the underlying holdings and not the underlying holdings directly so there will be two prices, the company share price and the net asset value of their holdings
    Last time I brought the fund it took several days to go through and get the contract note!
    Receiving the contract note isn't critical, just admin. Check the transaction date and maybe time on it and it will probably be when you expected, a few days earlier. I've waited nearly a week for contract notes to turn up but the transaction is usually when I expected it to be
    • bostonerimus
    • By bostonerimus 6th Feb 18, 8:07 PM
    • 1,558 Posts
    • 996 Thanks
    bostonerimus
    So if you purchased at 20:59 would you get todays price or have to wait for tomorrows?
    Originally posted by JSCB
    With a fund like VLS you'll get the price at close of business the day you did the trade. If you want intraday day trading you need individual stocks or an ETF.
    Misanthrope in search of similar for mutual loathing
    • worldtraveller
    • By worldtraveller 6th Feb 18, 8:30 PM
    • 11,551 Posts
    • 22,602 Thanks
    worldtraveller
    Currently,

    Dow up 1.75%
    Nasdaq up 1.7%
    S&P up 1.35%

    A lot of volatility though all day, from the Dow just after opening down 2.3%, to up over 2% later in the day.

    I'd expect the volatility to continue for some days to come in all markets.
    Last edited by worldtraveller; 06-02-2018 at 8:36 PM.
    There is a pleasure in the pathless woods, There is a rapture on the lonely shore, There is society, where none intrudes, By the deep sea, and music in its roar: I love not man the less, but Nature more...
    • DairyQueen
    • By DairyQueen 6th Feb 18, 9:12 PM
    • 170 Posts
    • 286 Thanks
    DairyQueen
    I invest through HL and today's fund movements came through just before 5.30pm. You posted at 5.10pm so maybe the same for you. But if your falls include today's, please let me know your fees to manage my investments.
    Originally posted by aroominyork
    My SIPP/ISA is split between HL and AJ Bell and it's consolidated on Trustnet Portfolio. No idea how often the latter is updated but current value is showing down 3.86% since last week and 1.56% on the day. Just had a quick peek at the individual holdings and there's quite a spectrum of losses. Royal London Short Duration Global High Yield Bond is actually up 0.01% (whoopee), GAM Star Credit Opportunities down 0.28%, RIT Capital Partners down 0.98% but Artemis US Smaller companies is down 4.52%. and BG Shin Nippon down 3.59%. On the passives: VLS 60% is down 1.14%, and so on.

    Should I stop eating toast and start worrying? Or is this just a case of a relative newbie getting lucky?
    • DairyQueen
    • By DairyQueen 6th Feb 18, 9:18 PM
    • 170 Posts
    • 286 Thanks
    DairyQueen
    Thats remarkably Good.
    My equity portfolio is down nearly as much as my biggest holding (SWDA World Tracker) which is down 3 times your amount -3.45%
    Originally posted by Glen Clark
    Is it? I have nothing to compare to and rely on the kind folk here for all feedback. Nobody I know has any interest in investing.

    Have decided this must be the good fairy's influence. I just checked and I'm down 1.56% on the day. That doesn't seem so bad.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 6th Feb 18, 9:21 PM
    • 57,548 Posts
    • 50,861 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    Maybe Woodford will recover
    Originally posted by bostonerimus
    20% is invested in unquoted companies. Comparing apples to pears.
    Financial disasters happen when the last person who can remember what went wrong last time has left the building.
    • aroominyork
    • By aroominyork 6th Feb 18, 10:38 PM
    • 393 Posts
    • 106 Thanks
    aroominyork
    Boston, I'm not sure what you mean by the day you "did" the trade. I don't know how it is in the USA where you are, but in the UK it is like ColdIron says: it depends on the cut off point of your platform, eg with HL it is 8am.
    • BarleyGB
    • By BarleyGB 6th Feb 18, 11:02 PM
    • 184 Posts
    • 162 Thanks
    BarleyGB
    Just piled in about 8% to my ISA, not sure if the markets will have recovered or dropped further before the fund purchases complete Wed - Thu.

    Divided the investment between:
    Baille Gifford Jap Sm Co
    Henderson Eur Sm Co
    Baille Gifford Greater China
    Old Mutual UK Sm Co
    Baille Gifford American

    Partly a rebalance, partly a bit of risk/spice. Will watch how they perform, have the potential to invest top up the same again in 3-4 months to average any losses/rebalance.
    • firestone
    • By firestone 6th Feb 18, 11:09 PM
    • 148 Posts
    • 55 Thanks
    firestone
    a piece on the BBC website quoting Fidelity among others blames the sell off on robots which begs the question did they sell their own Robo & IA funds or is this the start of the Skynet revolution?
    • JohnRo
    • By JohnRo 6th Feb 18, 11:11 PM
    • 2,553 Posts
    • 2,322 Thanks
    JohnRo
    I'm smirking at some of these comments, having invested in BRWM etc.

    IT investments like that get you acclimatised to volatility pretty sharpish.

    I don't think this last couple of days or so will amount to much in the grand scheme but I do think it's a very good thing for newer investors to experience some traffic in the other direction, globally, not really seen since late 2015, early 2016.

    It might also be a useful event/time for some to re-assess their real appetite for market volatility and capacity for paper losses ahead of the big one.
    'We don't need to be smarter than the rest; we need to be more disciplined than the rest.' - WB
    • kidmugsy
    • By kidmugsy 6th Feb 18, 11:30 PM
    • 10,199 Posts
    • 6,924 Thanks
    kidmugsy
    How does anyone know that this is a "correction"? Surely you only know with hindsight.
    Free the dunston one next time too.
    • Doshwaster
    • By Doshwaster 7th Feb 18, 1:46 AM
    • 4,784 Posts
    • 3,907 Thanks
    Doshwaster
    Tokyo and Hong Kong have both opened 2-3% up.

    Crisis? What crisis?
    • bostonerimus
    • By bostonerimus 7th Feb 18, 4:14 AM
    • 1,558 Posts
    • 996 Thanks
    bostonerimus
    Boston, I'm not sure what you mean by the day you "did" the trade. I don't know how it is in the USA where you are, but in the UK it is like ColdIron says: it depends on the cut off point of your platform, eg with HL it is 8am.
    Originally posted by aroominyork
    In the US funds will be priced at the end of trading. If you trade during the trading day you'll get the price at the end of the day. With ETFs you can trade during the day and the price is continually change, just like a stock. The times might change with platform in the UK, but the idea is the same.
    Misanthrope in search of similar for mutual loathing
    • bostonerimus
    • By bostonerimus 7th Feb 18, 4:19 AM
    • 1,558 Posts
    • 996 Thanks
    bostonerimus
    20% is invested in unquoted companies. Comparing apples to pears.
    Originally posted by Thrugelmir
    Indeed, a meaningless comparison as I mentioned in my post. I like pears better than apples, but why does an apple taste best when crisp, but a pear needs to be slightly soft to be really good? That's something I'd love to understand.

    also Woodford Equity income down 9.5% from this year's peak and Fundsmith down 5.5% from its 2018 peak. So Fundsmith is hanging in there. My Vanguard US Total Stock Market Index is down 6% from it's peak.
    Last edited by bostonerimus; 07-02-2018 at 4:34 AM.
    Misanthrope in search of similar for mutual loathing
    • worldtraveller
    • By worldtraveller 7th Feb 18, 5:45 AM
    • 11,551 Posts
    • 22,602 Thanks
    worldtraveller
    also Woodford Equity income down 9.5% from this year's peak and Fundsmith down 5.5% from its 2018 peak. So Fundsmith is hanging in there. My Vanguard US Total Stock Market Index is down 6% from it's peak.
    Originally posted by bostonerimus
    Personally I have a lot of faith, still, in Woodford. I invested in both LF Woodford Equity Income Fund & Woodford Patient Capital Trust from inception and have continued to drip feed on the dips. In fact I've topped up quite a bit over the past few weeks, and indeed the last few days.

    Of course I may be !!!!ing in the wind, but it's just part of a mixed portfolio and IMHO they'll come good in the timeframe I need them too.
    Last edited by worldtraveller; 07-02-2018 at 5:57 AM.
    There is a pleasure in the pathless woods, There is a rapture on the lonely shore, There is society, where none intrudes, By the deep sea, and music in its roar: I love not man the less, but Nature more...
    • worldtraveller
    • By worldtraveller 7th Feb 18, 6:04 AM
    • 11,551 Posts
    • 22,602 Thanks
    worldtraveller
    U.S. markets closed:

    Dow up 2.33%
    Nasdaq up 2.13%
    S&P up 1.74%

    Asian markets are currently up too.

    It'll be interesting to see what happens elsewhere today.
    There is a pleasure in the pathless woods, There is a rapture on the lonely shore, There is society, where none intrudes, By the deep sea, and music in its roar: I love not man the less, but Nature more...
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 7th Feb 18, 6:58 AM
    • 1,684 Posts
    • 1,149 Thanks
    Alexland
    The buy order in my workplace pension has completed and I am pleased with the price achieved on the extra share fund units.

    My personal view is we are seeing a wobble of confidence and some hot air release and I don't see why this would get too nasty. I think we might be seeing another moderately disappointing year like 2015. Still, who knows?

    Alex
    Last edited by Alexland; 07-02-2018 at 9:34 AM. Reason: Typo
    • aroominyork
    • By aroominyork 7th Feb 18, 7:54 AM
    • 393 Posts
    • 106 Thanks
    aroominyork
    Woodford Equity income down 9.5% from this year's peak and Fundsmith down 5.5% from its 2018 peak. So Fundsmith is hanging in there.
    Originally posted by bostonerimus
    Terry Smith might consign that comment to the 'damning with faint praise' bucket.
    • DairyQueen
    • By DairyQueen 7th Feb 18, 8:27 AM
    • 170 Posts
    • 286 Thanks
    DairyQueen
    I don't think this last couple of days or so will amount to much in the grand scheme but I do think it's a very good thing for newer investors to experience some traffic in the other direction, globally, not really seen since late 2015, early 2016.

    It might also be a useful event/time for some to re-assess their real appetite for market volatility and capacity for paper losses ahead of the big one.
    Originally posted by JohnRo
    I've had a SIPP since 2014 but only began taking a real interest in 2016 so I'm still a newbie. Yesterday I was counting my blessings as, thanks to the excellent information and help on this forum, I recently restructured my portfolio.

    In the nick of time.

    Previously it was very high risk. Worse still, I didn't know it. Throughout 2017 I did lots of research on platforms, fees, risk, timescales, aims, volatility, diversification, allocation and funds - often guided by this forum. I sold most holdings, moved money around, and bought only when I felt that I knew enough to do so.

    It's been a very steep learning curve and this week is the equivalent of taking my first end of term exam. If I pass then I shall feel sufficiently confident to take 'Investing 102'. I didn't even try to time the market and was fully invested before things began to get choppy. Not such a bad thing as I would now be facing the dilemma of when to invest and I don't think that's a road I should ever travel.

    So far the restructured portfolio has held-up ok and the sea of red isn't provoking a headless chicken response. I actually feel quite sanguine thanks to the reassurances I read here. The jury is still out on how I will feel/respond when the real nasty hits the fan but, when it does, I will again take my lead from the knowledgable people here.

    Thanks very much guys.
    • Cash-Strapped.T32
    • By Cash-Strapped.T32 7th Feb 18, 8:43 AM
    • 456 Posts
    • 252 Thanks
    Cash-Strapped.T32
    After getting the kick up the a**e after years of dithering to move over to I needed to finally move savings over to S&S, including my LISA (thanks again Alex) - my transfer is currently going through - naturally I'm hoping everything stays depressed for a few months while my funds arrive, and I gobble-up as much as I can on the (relative) cheap!
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