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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Callum
    • By MSE Callum 5th Feb 18, 9:39 AM
    • 132Posts
    • 77Thanks
    MSE Callum
    0 WOW
    MSE News: Airlines to be investigated over...
    • #1
    • 5th Feb 18, 9:39 AM
    0 WOW
    MSE News: Airlines to be investigated over... 5th Feb 18 at 9:39 AM
    Almost a fifth of airline passengers were separated from the rest of their group as they didn't pay extra to sit together, the Civil Aviation Authority has found as it launched an investigation into allocated seating policies...
    Read the full story:
    'Airlines to be investigated over charging for allocated seats'

    Click reply below to discuss. If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply.
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Page 1
    • boatman
    • By boatman 5th Feb 18, 11:45 AM
    • 3,710 Posts
    • 2,613 Thanks
    boatman
    • #2
    • 5th Feb 18, 11:45 AM
    • #2
    • 5th Feb 18, 11:45 AM
    Ryanair tops the list, anyone surprised?
    • vacheron
    • By vacheron 5th Feb 18, 12:25 PM
    • 801 Posts
    • 731 Thanks
    vacheron
    • #3
    • 5th Feb 18, 12:25 PM
    • #3
    • 5th Feb 18, 12:25 PM
    We've experienced this first hand with Jet2 when their website separated our family of three (2 parents and a 4 year old child) by placing our the two adults together but placed our 4 year old son alone on the other side of the isle next to two strangers despite the third seat next to us on our side being shown as free.

    When we begrudgingly selected to pay to choose his seat in order to move him back with us, about 75% of the plane was showing as being unreserved which included loads of 3 seat blocks together, however, when we tried to place him in the spare seat next to us we were informed by the system that seat had miraculously become "no longer available".

    I thought this was a glitch, so logged out, waited an hour or so then went back through the booking process on a different PC, but the booking site again placed us back in the same identical seats but the seat next to us had gone back to being "available", but when I tried to move him back a second time the seat suddenly became "unavailable" again.

    This meant the only option to guarantee three seats together was to move all three of us to different seats, thereby incurring three sets of seat selection charges.

    Now this may just be me being cynical..... but....
    Last edited by vacheron; 05-02-2018 at 12:32 PM.
    • The rich buy assets.
    • The poor only have expenses.
    • The middle class buy liabilities they think are assets.
    Robert T. Kiyosaki
    • Voyager2002
    • By Voyager2002 5th Feb 18, 12:48 PM
    • 11,934 Posts
    • 8,087 Thanks
    Voyager2002
    • #4
    • 5th Feb 18, 12:48 PM
    • #4
    • 5th Feb 18, 12:48 PM
    We've experienced this first hand with Jet2 when their website separated our family of three (2 parents and a 4 year old child) by placing our the two adults together but placed our 4 year old son alone on the other side of the isle next to two strangers despite the third seat next to us on our side being shown as free.
    Originally posted by vacheron
    Surely one of the adults could have simply swapped seats with the child once on the 'plane.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 5th Feb 18, 1:34 PM
    • 19,075 Posts
    • 50,375 Thanks
    Pollycat
    • #5
    • 5th Feb 18, 1:34 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Feb 18, 1:34 PM
    Surely one of the adults could have simply swapped seats with the child once on the 'plane.
    Originally posted by Voyager2002
    But that wouldn't have sounded so shocking as the headline 'Jet2 forced my 4 year old to sit on his own'.
    Would it?
    • Westin
    • By Westin 5th Feb 18, 1:40 PM
    • 1,259 Posts
    • 921 Thanks
    Westin
    • #6
    • 5th Feb 18, 1:40 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Feb 18, 1:40 PM
    But that wouldn't have sounded so shocking as the headline 'Jet2 forced my 4 year old to sit on his own'.
    Would it?
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    Is the Daily Mail recruiting? #3 might be in luck.

    And of course those are also still classed as seats together by many airlines if there is ‘only’ separation by an aisle.
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 5th Feb 18, 1:53 PM
    • 9,742 Posts
    • 10,950 Thanks
    shaun from Africa
    • #7
    • 5th Feb 18, 1:53 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Feb 18, 1:53 PM
    And of course those are also still classed as seats together by many airlines if there is !!!8216;only!!!8217; separation by an aisle.
    Originally posted by Westin
    Not to mention the UK Civil aviation authority.
    They state that children should ideally be seated in the same row as the parent/guardian and no more than 1 row apart so even if the children are a couple of seats away, provided that it's still the same row, the airline are complying with their recommendations.
    Last edited by shaun from Africa; 05-02-2018 at 2:09 PM.
    • vacheron
    • By vacheron 5th Feb 18, 2:05 PM
    • 801 Posts
    • 731 Thanks
    vacheron
    • #8
    • 5th Feb 18, 2:05 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Feb 18, 2:05 PM
    Well based on some of the intervening comments I suppose I should apologise for sharing a first hand factual account of a group of travelers being separated by an airline because they didn't pay to sit together on a thread dedicated to discussing a story about travelers being separated by an airline because they didn't pay to sit together.

    Don't get me wrong, we'd have been glad to get some peace and quiet while he talked some poor stranger to death for 3 hours. But why else would an airline choose to subject one of their other innocent travelers to someone else's 4 year old son when there was a perfectly good free seat right next to the parents.... and hundreds of other free seats all over the aircraft at the time?

    The system already knows everyone's ages and the location of all the children on board so could have easily placed put the child next to both (or even one) of the parents, but it didn't.... Isn't that what this thread was supposed to be about?
    Last edited by vacheron; 05-02-2018 at 2:19 PM.
    • The rich buy assets.
    • The poor only have expenses.
    • The middle class buy liabilities they think are assets.
    Robert T. Kiyosaki
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 5th Feb 18, 3:19 PM
    • 19,075 Posts
    • 50,375 Thanks
    Pollycat
    • #9
    • 5th Feb 18, 3:19 PM
    • #9
    • 5th Feb 18, 3:19 PM
    Well based on some of the intervening comments I suppose I should apologise for sharing a first hand factual account of a group of travelers being separated by an airline because they didn't pay to sit together on a thread dedicated to discussing a story about travelers being separated by an airline because they didn't pay to sit together.

    Don't get me wrong, we'd have been glad to get some peace and quiet while he talked some poor stranger to death for 3 hours. But why else would an airline choose to subject one of their other innocent travelers to someone else's 4 year old son when there was a perfectly good free seat right next to the parents.... and hundreds of other free seats all over the aircraft at the time?

    The system already knows everyone's ages and the location of all the children on board so could have easily placed put the child next to both (or even one) of the parents, but it didn't.... Isn't that what this thread was supposed to be about?
    Originally posted by vacheron
    Well, I thought it was about travellers being split up.

    And - as already pointed out by these 2 posters:
    And of course those are also still classed as seats together by many airlines if there is ‘only’ separation by an aisle.
    Originally posted by Westin
    Not to mention the UK Civil aviation authority.
    They state that children should ideally be seated in the same row as the parent/guardian and no more than 1 row apart so even if the children are a couple of seats away, provided that it's still the same row, the airline are complying with their recommendations.
    Originally posted by shaun from Africa
    ...
    • vacheron
    • By vacheron 5th Feb 18, 4:49 PM
    • 801 Posts
    • 731 Thanks
    vacheron
    Hi Pollycat.

    Without resorting to the sarcasm you felt was necessary in your first response, I'd be interested to hear any logical reasons anyone may have as to why, on a plane that was 75% empty, Jet2 would:
    • Seat a 4 year old child next to strangers on one side of the aisle while seating both parents on the opposite side next to an EMPTY seat?

    • Not allow the child to be moved into the empty seat even when the parents twice attempted to pay the charge to do so.

    • Were able to allow the party of three to sit in together in three adjoining seats, but only if all 3 people paid the reserve seating charge?

    I am sure the specific wording if the industry guidelines regarding what constitutes "together" is perfectly legal and I understood that perfectly the first time Shaun posted it so I don't need that pointed out again. I'm also sure spirit of these rules are to ensure safety when planes are heavily booked or to allow passenger relocations in exceptional circumstances.

    Using the same defense, it would also probably be perfectly legal to sit a 4 year old at a different table to their parents at a wedding reception when there is a free seat next to the parents, but nobody would defend those arrangements because they simply make no logical sense!

    I therefore couldn't at the time (and still can't) think of any logical reason for them doing this other than a carefully orchestrated attempt to extract three additional payments out of the party in order to restore a "completely common sense" seating arrangement.
    • The rich buy assets.
    • The poor only have expenses.
    • The middle class buy liabilities they think are assets.
    Robert T. Kiyosaki
    • robrymond
    • By robrymond 5th Feb 18, 4:57 PM
    • 548 Posts
    • 137 Thanks
    robrymond
    It is costing us £74 to select a seat on TUI to Mexico which is just insane. But we did pay it because of the flight length!
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 5th Feb 18, 6:04 PM
    • 19,075 Posts
    • 50,375 Thanks
    Pollycat
    Hi Pollycat.

    Without resorting to the sarcasm you felt was necessary in your first response, I'd be interested to hear any logical reasons anyone may have as to why, on a plane that was 75% empty, Jet2 would:
    • Seat a 4 year old child next to strangers on one side of the aisle while seating both parents on the opposite side next to an EMPTY seat?
    • Not allow the child to be moved into the empty seat even when the parents twice attempted to pay the charge to do so.
    • Were able to allow the party of three to sit in together in three adjoining seats, but only if all 3 people paid the reserve seating charge?

    I am sure the specific wording if the industry guidelines regarding what constitutes "together" is perfectly legal and I understood that perfectly the first time Shaun posted it so I don't need that pointed out again. I'm also sure spirit of these rules are to ensure safety when planes are heavily booked or to allow passenger relocations in exceptional circumstances.

    Using the same defense, it would also probably be perfectly legal to sit a 4 year old at a different table to their parents at a wedding reception when there is a free seat next to the parents, but nobody would defend those arrangements because they simply make no logical sense!

    I therefore couldn't at the time (and still can't) think of any logical reason for them doing this other than a carefully orchestrated attempt to extract three additional payments out of the party in order to restore a "completely common sense" seating arrangement.
    Originally posted by vacheron
    The thread is about the CAA looking into various aspects of seating.
    Jet2 did nothing wrong on your flight according to CAA guidelines.

    That was the point made by several posters.

    I suggest you ask Jet2 for their logical reason to seat your family as they did.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 5th Feb 18, 6:07 PM
    • 19,075 Posts
    • 50,375 Thanks
    Pollycat
    It is costing us £74 to select a seat on TUI to Mexico which is just insane. But we did pay it because of the flight length!
    Originally posted by robrymond
    £74 for how many passengers?
    We've paid £57.60 to select seats on Singapore airlines - but that is for 2 flights outbound each and 2 flights inbound so 8 selections.
    • zagfles
    • By zagfles 5th Feb 18, 6:35 PM
    • 12,726 Posts
    • 10,781 Thanks
    zagfles
    We've experienced this first hand with Jet2 when their website separated our family of three (2 parents and a 4 year old child) by placing our the two adults together but placed our 4 year old son alone on the other side of the isle next to two strangers despite the third seat next to us on our side being shown as free.

    When we begrudgingly selected to pay to choose his seat in order to move him back with us, about 75% of the plane was showing as being unreserved which included loads of 3 seat blocks together, however, when we tried to place him in the spare seat next to us we were informed by the system that seat had miraculously become "no longer available".

    I thought this was a glitch, so logged out, waited an hour or so then went back through the booking process on a different PC, but the booking site again placed us back in the same identical seats but the seat next to us had gone back to being "available", but when I tried to move him back a second time the seat suddenly became "unavailable" again.

    This meant the only option to guarantee three seats together was to move all three of us to different seats, thereby incurring three sets of seat selection charges.

    Now this may just be me being cynical..... but....
    Originally posted by vacheron
    Personally I'd have just got on and sat in the block of 3 seats with son in the middle seat. Possible the other seat was empty anyway, but if not and the seat's owner came along, ask if it's OK if he/she has the seat across the aisle instead, saying stuff like your son screams a lot and is messy with food etc and it takes 2 of you to keep him under control.

    Almost certain to get you a swap. And if not, one adult moves across the aisle and the other can have fun telling your son "now here's your drink but don't throw it everywhere like you did last time" etc
    • richardw
    • By richardw 5th Feb 18, 6:36 PM
    • 18,455 Posts
    • 7,639 Thanks
    richardw
    The CAA need teeth. The government and Parliament should give them the teeth. It is not going to happen anytime soon.
    Posts are not advice and must not be relied upon.
    • NoodleDoodleMan
    • By NoodleDoodleMan 5th Feb 18, 7:51 PM
    • 269 Posts
    • 81 Thanks
    NoodleDoodleMan
    The CEO of Jet2 is Stephen Heapy.

    sheapy@jet2.com

    Why not ask him to justify this policy of separating passengers unless they "choose" to pay extra ?

    I have.
    • fifeken
    • By fifeken 5th Feb 18, 8:43 PM
    • 2,192 Posts
    • 1,141 Thanks
    fifeken
    I therefore couldn't at the time (and still can't) think of any logical reason for them doing this other than a carefully orchestrated attempt to extract three additional payments out of the party in order to restore a "completely common sense" seating arrangement.
    Originally posted by vacheron
    Getting extra money from customers is entirely logical - that's what businesses are there to do.

    As customers it's logical for us to try and avoid these extras, so I can realise why you're annoyed, but it's just a case of trying to outwit them and it sounds like they won on this occasion.
    • King Drax I
    • By King Drax I 8th Feb 18, 1:41 PM
    • 71 Posts
    • 45 Thanks
    King Drax I
    I don't understand why this is not flagged as a flight safety issue. And I am a qualified Pilot and I really don't understand how the airlines are getting away with it even just on safety grounds. Say the aircraft catches fire on the ground, and I have to get my family out in all the black smoke. I can tell you straight up that I will not be heading for the nearest exit until I have made sure my family are safe, and I would imagine that every other sane dad on the aircraft will hhave the same idea. Lives will definitely be lost in the confusion. This is simply insane, and Ryanair are the worst of all.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 8th Feb 18, 4:03 PM
    • 19,075 Posts
    • 50,375 Thanks
    Pollycat
    I don't understand why this is not flagged as a flight safety issue. And I am a qualified Pilot and I really don't understand how the airlines are getting away with it even just on safety grounds. Say the aircraft catches fire on the ground, and I have to get my family out in all the black smoke. I can tell you straight up that I will not be heading for the nearest exit until I have made sure my family are safe, and I would imagine that every other sane dad on the aircraft will hhave the same idea. Lives will definitely be lost in the confusion. This is simply insane, and Ryanair are the worst of all.
    Originally posted by King Drax I
    I'm not sure this ^^^^ is relevant to what the CAA are looking at.

    According to Simon Calder:
    So what is the CAA investigating?
    It is looking at couples, business colleagues or groups of friends flying on the same plane – but not necessarily finding themselves sat in the same row. The investigation doesn’t cover families with younger children, for whom there are specific safety rules.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/airline-seats-caa-ryanair-easyjet-british-airways-seating-allocations-splitting-middle-seats-a8193431.html
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 8th Feb 18, 5:26 PM
    • 13,559 Posts
    • 17,787 Thanks
    Gloomendoom
    £74 for how many passengers?
    We've paid £57.60 to select seats on Singapore airlines - but that is for 2 flights outbound each and 2 flights inbound so 8 selections.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    That doesn’t sound like much of a bargain to me. It was free up to last month.
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” - Mark Twain
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