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  • FIRST POST
    • RKClarke
    • By RKClarke 5th Feb 18, 8:37 AM
    • 4Posts
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    RKClarke
    Unique concert venue refund claim
    • #1
    • 5th Feb 18, 8:37 AM
    Unique concert venue refund claim 5th Feb 18 at 8:37 AM
    Hello all,
    Madness are due to play a series of concerts at 4 stately homes. I bought VIP tickets in row B right in front of stage - Englefield House. Within a couple of days, the organisers changed venue to all standing and put out a message that "If this new arrangement is not suitable for you, you can get a full refund at your point of purchase" So, along with my consumer rights, I have no qualms that my full claimed refund will ensue.
    However, a thread from disgruntled fans in similar position raised a very interesting connundrum. A fan purchased similar tickets to mine on a secondary market site. Now, post venue announcement, when that person receives said tickets, they will of course be standing, not VIP seating. Having contacted the secondary site, they say they won't refund since they say they're just a market place advising that they should simply receive and sell on the tickets.
    Surely they have faciliated the sale of tickets that do not fit the description and reason why the premium tickets were purchased? My thought were that this transaction has to be unwound, secondary site refunds buyer from their site, original buyer claims back from original source? Thoughts anyone?
Page 1
    • arcon5
    • By arcon5 5th Feb 18, 8:41 AM
    • 13,394 Posts
    • 8,498 Thanks
    arcon5
    • #2
    • 5th Feb 18, 8:41 AM
    • #2
    • 5th Feb 18, 8:41 AM
    If they are .merely a platform for buyer and seller to meet then your contract is with the seller not the website so you won't get a refund from them
    • RKClarke
    • By RKClarke 5th Feb 18, 5:14 PM
    • 4 Posts
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    RKClarke
    • #3
    • 5th Feb 18, 5:14 PM
    • #3
    • 5th Feb 18, 5:14 PM
    Thanks arcon5, whilst logical, I think it's a bit more complicated than that.
    Looking at the reseller's website, under their FAQs - cancellations (for example), it states: "If the event is cancelled ; We will ask you to return the tickets and you will be refunded for your purchase."
    If your comment was valid, I'd expect their website to say (sort of), "sorry mate, contact the original seller and best of luck with that!"
    The person that bought from the reseller should be able to seek the same restitution as me (who bought from Ticketmaster), seemlessly. An event being cancelled (as far as a person who bought seats because they are unable to stand is concerned), has the same effect as the organizers changing the venue from all seated to all standing. That is, you're left with useless tickets through no fault of your own and entitled to a full refund.
    I cannot see how a reseller can expect the buyer to chase the person that lodged the tickets on their site. I also think this example is quite unique, hence I offer it out there for discussion.
    • arcon5
    • By arcon5 6th Feb 18, 8:11 AM
    • 13,394 Posts
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    arcon5
    • #4
    • 6th Feb 18, 8:11 AM
    • #4
    • 6th Feb 18, 8:11 AM
    Well if you buy a tv off eBay and it's faulty you pursue the seller not ebay. I use ebay as an example as they also have systems in place to facilitate returns, refunds, disputes as well as binding each party to the fact ebay can intervene and make a decision. But not withstanding the fact they are still not party to the actual sale itself
    • stuartJo1989
    • By stuartJo1989 6th Feb 18, 11:25 AM
    • 446 Posts
    • 471 Thanks
    stuartJo1989
    • #5
    • 6th Feb 18, 11:25 AM
    • #5
    • 6th Feb 18, 11:25 AM
    Well, it seems a bit weird because Ticketmaster do have some Ts and Cs relating to changes like this, which suggest that cancellation IS possible!

    Rescheduling: Unless indicated otherwise in relation to a particular event, if an event is rescheduled, you will be offered seats at any rescheduled event (subject to availability) of a value corresponding with your original tickets. If you are unable to attend the rescheduled event, you will be offered a refund of the sale price of your ticket(s) including the relevant per ticket service charge but excluding the per order handling fee. You must inform us within the time specified by us if you are unable to attend the rescheduled event, otherwise we may reconfirm your booking for the rescheduled date and you will not be entitled to claim a refund.
    by Ticketmaster
    (Could also be considered a "material change")

    But viagogo (I assume you used them, because of the Ts and Cs you quoted) seem to be of the mindset that all sales are final and I don't think they have any way of you contacting the seller?

    So.... it is a dodgy one here because the person who purchased the tickets MAY be fully entitled to cancel the tickets, but viagogo may be blocking you from contacting this person and thus allowing the time window to expire, meaning that you are stuck with them.

    I would probably email viagogo and point out the Ticketmaster Ts and Cs, asking them to contact the original owners or the tickets to invoke the cancellation.

    It is a bit murky all of this re-selling malarkey though, so I don't even know how you'd fare if you took this to court. Ultimately, though, but you don't have a contract with viagogo for the tickets but yea, I'd be very concerned if they aren't allowing you to contact the seller and that could well leave them liable? I have no idea to be honest!
    • RKClarke
    • By RKClarke 6th Feb 18, 12:35 PM
    • 4 Posts
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    RKClarke
    • #6
    • 6th Feb 18, 12:35 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Feb 18, 12:35 PM
    Thank you both. It's that cancellation comment and you're right <stuartjo> it was Viagogo, that suggests they are deeply involved, since they would pay a full refund. That Ticketmaster clause is extremely poignant and I'll suggest the buyer in this case references that as well as the promoter's comment that you can seek a full refund from the place you purchased the tickets. Viagogo do not mention having to contact the original seller, so the ebay example I don't think applies here.
    Murky indeed and a contract law / sale of goods act minefield! I personally never use secondary market sites as they have effectively legalised ticket touts (especially with bots). I thoroughly recommend Twickets though where tickets can only be sold at face value or less.
    • SuperHan
    • By SuperHan 6th Feb 18, 1:29 PM
    • 2,043 Posts
    • 1,210 Thanks
    SuperHan
    • #7
    • 6th Feb 18, 1:29 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Feb 18, 1:29 PM
    Viagogo are explicit when you sell tickets with them that they must be as described, and if not the sale can be cancelled (and the seller would be liable to purchase the described tickets for the buyer).


    It would appear your tickets are not as described, so I'm surprised Viagogo aren't more willing to reverse the sale for your friend. It may be worth finding the T&Cs about as described rather than cancellation and escalate the issue quoting these (I'm at work at the moment so don't have time to dig them out for you - but given the warnings made to sellers, I would imagine they are there).
    • RKClarke
    • By RKClarke 6th Feb 18, 6:09 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    RKClarke
    • #8
    • 6th Feb 18, 6:09 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Feb 18, 6:09 PM
    Thanks SuperHan, I just looked at the Viagogo site amd your comment regarding tickets must be as described (they clearly arn't in this case) + I have just seen confirmation of a point made earlier in this thread, that they hold your payment until 5-8 business days after the event, it is 100% in their court to refund monies, not the seller (he/she has not been paid by Viagogo. It's an interesting case because the original seller has a finite window to get their refund from the original ticket site. Since they probably think they've relinquished title of the tickets, they'll probably end up taking a bath on this. Anyway, let's see how it pans out. Thanks all.
    • Greta Sharbo
    • By Greta Sharbo 6th Feb 18, 8:09 PM
    • 153 Posts
    • 168 Thanks
    Greta Sharbo
    • #9
    • 6th Feb 18, 8:09 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Feb 18, 8:09 PM
    What's the first sign of Madness?

    Suggs walking up your driveway.

    (Sorry)
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