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  • FIRST POST
    • geek84
    • By geek84 3rd Feb 18, 4:02 PM
    • 1,040Posts
    • 106Thanks
    geek84
    Leaving car engine running
    • #1
    • 3rd Feb 18, 4:02 PM
    Leaving car engine running 3rd Feb 18 at 4:02 PM
    Hi Folks

    Every morning someone in our street leaves their car engine running for about 10 minutes. I think he/she does that in order to warm up the car, but it is very annoying.

    Aren't there any laws stating you can't do that?

    Thanks
Page 2
    • Richard53
    • By Richard53 4th Feb 18, 10:08 AM
    • 2,606 Posts
    • 2,213 Thanks
    Richard53
    I live near a school entrance. In the winter all the school run parents start turning up 30 minutes before kicking out time then leave their engines running to keep warm. Obviously the pollution caused by their twice daily journey and associated congestion isn't enough for them.
    Originally posted by Norman Castle
    This would be the issue for me. I can tolerate the sound of a car idling outside my house, but the smell of the exhaust drifting in through the windows would annoy me. If it was every day, I'd be having a word.
    An hour alone spells freedom to the slave.
    • Stageshoot
    • By Stageshoot 4th Feb 18, 10:49 AM
    • 517 Posts
    • 558 Thanks
    Stageshoot
    One of the advantages of driving an Electric Car.

    Preheats in the morning silently before you leave, get in to toasty warm interior,seats and steering wheel, no ice on the outside.. Just unplug it and go while all the other drivers are doing the scraper dance.
    Motor Insurance Claims Fraud Investigator.
    • peter12345678910
    • By peter12345678910 4th Feb 18, 4:28 PM
    • 243 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    peter12345678910
    Hot coffee and e smoking does not help with the condensation, I always run for 3 minutes, and the car seems to run better especially for a 4.5 mile trip.
    When you look into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you.

    Friedrich Nietzsche
    • Richard53
    • By Richard53 4th Feb 18, 5:44 PM
    • 2,606 Posts
    • 2,213 Thanks
    Richard53
    One of the advantages of driving an Electric Car.

    Preheats in the morning silently before you leave, get in to toasty warm interior,seats and steering wheel, no ice on the outside.. Just unplug it and go while all the other drivers are doing the scraper dance.
    Originally posted by Stageshoot
    Apparently, I have an electric Land Rover. It's similar to what you describe, but the fan heater has to go back in the shed when I am ready to go.
    An hour alone spells freedom to the slave.
    • Bigphil1474
    • By Bigphil1474 5th Feb 18, 8:50 AM
    • 761 Posts
    • 307 Thanks
    Bigphil1474
    OP, maybe your best bet is to get up early one morning, find out who is doing it, have a polite word with them explaining why it is annoying you, and maybe they'll consider not doing it. Chances are they don't know it's annoying you, and it's unlikely they'll be doing it to annoy.
    In terms of the law, it would appear that it is a matter enforced by councils. I had a quick look on the council website for where I live, and it does say that defrosting a windscreen is an exclusion (amongst others) so if that's why they are doing it, then there's probably no offence.
    • George Michael
    • By George Michael 5th Feb 18, 9:33 AM
    • 2,956 Posts
    • 3,997 Thanks
    George Michael
    Yes, 50 for a fixed penalty.
    Originally posted by Warwick Hunt
    So why does the legislation that covers this offence clearly state that the fixed penalty is 20?

    Issue of fixed penalty notice: stationary idling offence

    13. An authorised person who considers that a stationary idling offence has been committed may, in accordance with Part 7, issue a fixed penalty notice to the driver of the vehicle.

    Fixed penalty offences
    7. Emission offences and stationary idling offences under section 42 of the Road Traffic Act 1988(1) are hereby prescribed as fixed penalty offences for the purposes of these Regulations.

    Amount of penalty

    8. Subject to regulation 17, a person may discharge any liability to conviction!!!8212;

    (a) for an emissions offence, subject to regulation 19, on payment of 60;

    (b) for a stationary idling offence, on payment of 20.
    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/1808/contents/made
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 5th Feb 18, 10:30 AM
    • 2,629 Posts
    • 1,682 Thanks
    Car 54
    Originally posted by George Michael
    Isn't it much more likely that the charge would be under section 98 of the C & U Regs (Stopping of engine when stationary)?

    3 points and a 100 FP or an income-related fine.
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 5th Feb 18, 10:52 AM
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    • 3,929 Thanks
    Johno100
    Isn't it much more likely that the charge would be under section 98 of the C & U Regs (Stopping of engine when stationary)?

    3 points and a 100 FP or an income-related fine.
    Originally posted by Car 54
    Stopping of engine when stationary

    98.!!!8212;(1) Save as provided in paragraph (2), the driver of a vehicle shall, when the vehicle is stationary, stop the action of any machinery attached to or forming part of the vehicle so far as may be necessary for the prevention of noise.

    (2) The provisions of paragraph (1) do not apply!!!8212;

    (a)when the vehicle is stationary owing to the necessities of traffic;

    (b)so as to prevent the examination or working of the machinery where the examination is necessitated by any failure or derangement of the machinery or where the machinery is required to be worked for a purpose other than driving the vehicle; or

    (c)in respect of a vehicle propelled by gas produced in plant carried on the vehicle, to such plant.
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/98/made

    Perhaps if the car in question had a mobile cement mixer attached to it and powered up.
    • George Michael
    • By George Michael 5th Feb 18, 10:56 AM
    • 2,956 Posts
    • 3,997 Thanks
    George Michael
    Isn't it much more likely that the charge would be under section 98 of the C & U Regs (Stopping of engine when stationary)?
    Originally posted by Car 54
    If that applies to the actual engine of the car then there is an exemption to section 98 that allows you to avoid prosecution if the car is being run for "a purpose other than driving the vehicle".
    It might well be argued that if you are running it in order to defrost or demist the windows to make it safe before setting off, this would fit the exemption.
    • wongataa
    • By wongataa 5th Feb 18, 11:27 AM
    • 1,238 Posts
    • 706 Thanks
    wongataa
    That's what aircon is for, not just for hot summer days.
    Originally posted by Richard53
    But if the temperature is below 4-5C then the aircon will not turn on in cars even if the light turns on when you press the button. So if it is cold the aircon status is irrelevant as it won't help.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 5th Feb 18, 12:06 PM
    • 2,629 Posts
    • 1,682 Thanks
    Car 54
    If that applies to the actual engine of the car then there is an exemption to section 98 that allows you to avoid prosecution if the car is being run for "a purpose other than driving the vehicle".
    It might well be argued that if you are running it in order to defrost or demist the windows to make it safe before setting off, this would fit the exemption.
    Originally posted by George Michael
    Good point.
    Last edited by Car 54; 05-02-2018 at 12:09 PM.
    • Tarambor
    • By Tarambor 5th Feb 18, 1:36 PM
    • 2,206 Posts
    • 1,591 Thanks
    Tarambor
    That's what aircon is for, not just for hot summer days.
    Originally posted by Richard53
    Assuming your car has aircon. One of my cars is a convertable. It doesn't seal enough to stop condensation, it has no aircon. What do I do?
    • BeenThroughItAll
    • By BeenThroughItAll 5th Feb 18, 2:22 PM
    • 4,666 Posts
    • 4,084 Thanks
    BeenThroughItAll
    Assuming your car has aircon. One of my cars is a convertable. It doesn't seal enough to stop condensation, it has no aircon. What do I do?
    Originally posted by Tarambor
    Have a new roof fitted.
    • Richard53
    • By Richard53 11th Feb 18, 5:41 PM
    • 2,606 Posts
    • 2,213 Thanks
    Richard53
    But if the temperature is below 4-5C then the aircon will not turn on in cars even if the light turns on when you press the button. So if it is cold the aircon status is irrelevant as it won't help.
    Originally posted by wongataa

    It will dry the air whatever the temperature, which is why it helps to stop misting.

    Assuming your car has aircon. One of my cars is a convertable. It doesn't seal enough to stop condensation, it has no aircon. What do I do?
    Originally posted by Tarambor
    MX-5? Mine too. Funnily enough, there are enough gaps to let draughts and rain in, but not enough to let condensation out. The only way to stop it misting in weather like this is to drive with the roof down (as I saw a guy doing today in 2 deg C).
    An hour alone spells freedom to the slave.
    • wongataa
    • By wongataa 11th Feb 18, 5:47 PM
    • 1,238 Posts
    • 706 Thanks
    wongataa
    It will dry the air whatever the temperature, which is why it helps to stop misting.
    Originally posted by Richard53
    Not if the temperature is below the limit for the air-con to turn on. Air-con not on = no air drying. If the air-con is not on how can it still dry the air?

    I have seen this myself in my car which has air-con. If the air-con is not on for any reason (too cold or not switched on) then you can get misting of the windows as the incoming air is not being dried.
    • nickcc
    • By nickcc 11th Feb 18, 7:42 PM
    • 1,768 Posts
    • 769 Thanks
    nickcc
    Would prefer someone to run their car so as their windows were clear before driving off and killing some innocent.
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 11th Feb 18, 8:09 PM
    • 3,503 Posts
    • 3,929 Thanks
    Johno100
    Would prefer someone to run their car so as their windows were clear before driving off and killing some innocent.
    Originally posted by nickcc
    Yes, but think of the planet! I'm sure that poor innocent and their nearest and dearest would understand it would be for the greater good.
    • reeac
    • By reeac 12th Feb 18, 8:55 AM
    • 1,173 Posts
    • 472 Thanks
    reeac
    Not if the temperature is below the limit for the air-con to turn on. Air-con not on = no air drying. If the air-con is not on how can it still dry the air?

    I have seen this myself in my car which has air-con. If the air-con is not on for any reason (too cold or not switched on) then you can get misting of the windows as the incoming air is not being dried.
    Originally posted by wongataa
    But if the temperature is below 4-5C then the aircon will not turn on in cars even if the light turns on when you press the button. So if it is cold the aircon status is irrelevant as it won't help.
    Originally posted by wongataa
    If you use the air on all the time then it will keep the car interior dry and minimise interior condensation on cold mornings.
    • Richard53
    • By Richard53 14th Feb 18, 8:04 AM
    • 2,606 Posts
    • 2,213 Thanks
    Richard53
    Not if the temperature is below the limit for the air-con to turn on. Air-con not on = no air drying. If the air-con is not on how can it still dry the air?

    I have seen this myself in my car which has air-con. If the air-con is not on for any reason (too cold or not switched on) then you can get misting of the windows as the incoming air is not being dried.
    Originally posted by wongataa
    The compressor on my last car used to run whatever the outside temperature (although I can't say I stood there with a thermometer to check exactly) and the windows demisted in seconds even when it was sub-zero. I assumed that this meant the aircon was running, but perhaps I imagined it.
    An hour alone spells freedom to the slave.
    • IanMSpencer
    • By IanMSpencer 14th Feb 18, 9:21 AM
    • 1,367 Posts
    • 1,027 Thanks
    IanMSpencer
    The compressor on my last car used to run whatever the outside temperature (although I can't say I stood there with a thermometer to check exactly) and the windows demisted in seconds even when it was sub-zero. I assumed that this meant the aircon was running, but perhaps I imagined it.
    Originally posted by Richard53
    If it was running it wasn't doing anything much. Air below about 4c simply doesn't contain any significant moisture for the aircon to remove, hence some companies save fuel by not allowing the compressor to run. More likely it had some instant heating system?
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