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  • FIRST POST
    • NewNewMoney
    • By NewNewMoney 2nd Feb 18, 4:33 PM
    • 28Posts
    • 11Thanks
    NewNewMoney
    PCN Issued by PPM Ltd - Gladstone chasing
    • #1
    • 2nd Feb 18, 4:33 PM
    PCN Issued by PPM Ltd - Gladstone chasing 2nd Feb 18 at 4:33 PM
    Hi,

    This is my third (and final ) run in with Parking and Property Management Ltd, and I suspect this time I'm actually in the wrong and may have to cough up.

    To give a quick background, the car park I was given the PCN is in front of my gym and I had a PT that gave me permits to allow me to use the car park. These permits were single use permits and I just had to write in the time I entered and would leave the car park, so I'd use the permits to park in the morning, go to work, come back and then go to the gym. They came on a sheet of six.

    After coming back from work, I found I had a PCN which I laughed and ignored, following the steps in the newbie thread, waiting 30 days to appeal etc. I will say that guy who is actually taking photos and "catching drivers" is a cnt and I've complained and had run ins with him so I think he was targeting my car. The PCN reason was copied/fake permit.

    Fast forward to approx a year later I get a letter from Gladstones saying I need to pay etc etc. Fine has increased from £100 to £160. The normal scare tactics. Again, still following the newbie thread advice I've replied like I should and I must say that at this point I'm not worried because I got the permit from my PT and I believed I could just go to my gym to get evidence.

    So I go back to my gym and tell one of the staff members what happened and he said "yeah its a fake. He shouldn't have been giving them out and a few of his clients and other gym staff got caught a while back." Turns out the permits did not come on a sheet of six. You are supposed to get the singular permits every time you enter the car park, he created fake permits by making six copies of one permit on an A4 sheet.

    I think those in possession of said fake permit sheet were supposed to cut them up and use a single one each time. I just folded the sheet and would display a different square each time I used the car park, ultimately me not wanting to have bits of paper in my car is what has led to my demise.

    The PT that gave these (very good fake) permits to me is no longer employed by the gym and I have no idea where he has gone.

    I don't think I have a leg to stand on but I'd like to know if you the experts agree?

    Thanks
Page 1
    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 2nd Feb 18, 5:07 PM
    • 2,510 Posts
    • 3,100 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    • #2
    • 2nd Feb 18, 5:07 PM
    • #2
    • 2nd Feb 18, 5:07 PM
    just to clarify ... who exactly gave you the permit ?

    Ralph
    • NewNewMoney
    • By NewNewMoney 2nd Feb 18, 5:13 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    NewNewMoney
    • #3
    • 2nd Feb 18, 5:13 PM
    • #3
    • 2nd Feb 18, 5:13 PM
    My Personal Trainer who has now gone AWOL.

    He actually gave me the permits the first time I got a PCN (December 2016 paid because I didn't know about this site ) to avoid it happening again.
    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 2nd Feb 18, 5:18 PM
    • 2,510 Posts
    • 3,100 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    • #4
    • 2nd Feb 18, 5:18 PM
    • #4
    • 2nd Feb 18, 5:18 PM
    while you (re) read the newbies thread for correct procedures ........

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4816822

    what have the gym management have to say ?

    Ralph
    • NewNewMoney
    • By NewNewMoney 2nd Feb 18, 5:33 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    NewNewMoney
    • #5
    • 2nd Feb 18, 5:33 PM
    • #5
    • 2nd Feb 18, 5:33 PM
    Absolutely nothing. As far as they are concerned its not their problem as they didn't supply it. I have no proof that I got it from my PT and the guy has literally gone awol.

    They've basically said you're probably going to have to pay it, unless you want to drag it out to court
    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 2nd Feb 18, 5:53 PM
    • 2,510 Posts
    • 3,100 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    • #6
    • 2nd Feb 18, 5:53 PM
    • #6
    • 2nd Feb 18, 5:53 PM
    while you await forum elders who will comment on the laws / rule, re employers resonibity for employees .....

    let them know that they may be called to give evidence when you drag this to court ( part bluff)

    they must cancel it now or you cancel your membership?

    Ralph
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 2nd Feb 18, 6:00 PM
    • 8,706 Posts
    • 9,279 Thanks
    pappa golf
    • #7
    • 2nd Feb 18, 6:00 PM
    • #7
    • 2nd Feb 18, 6:00 PM
    who employed the personal trainer , the one that gave you the fake permits
    Save a Rachael

    buy a share in crapita
    • NewNewMoney
    • By NewNewMoney 2nd Feb 18, 6:20 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    NewNewMoney
    • #8
    • 2nd Feb 18, 6:20 PM
    • #8
    • 2nd Feb 18, 6:20 PM
    I'm not paying monthly so if they or I did cancel membership, I think I'd be the one to lose out as I paid £99 for 8 months.

    This is at "The Gym" who was the employer of my PT, however there's this nagging thing in the back of my head about the contract I had with the PT. Basically because I do recall reading something to do with liability regarding The Gym and the PTs. All PTs are employees and they work shifts etc, but when they do their PT sessions, they are working independently i.e. they aren't being paid by The Gym for their time. Basically if I injured myself during a PT session, I wouldn't be able to sue The Gym, it would just be the PT who has to take full responsibility/has to get their own legal protection.

    I think this was their angle when I was explaining my situation to them earlier this week. One of their own employees has already been taken to court over this fake permit malarkey and received no support from The Gym, so I'm not holding my breath about them supporting a member, I don't think this is a unique case for them.

    Honestly the attitude is very bad there and they treat a lot of their members with disdain, but you get what you pay for and at £12.40 I don't expect great customer service.
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 2nd Feb 18, 6:24 PM
    • 8,706 Posts
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    pappa golf
    • #9
    • 2nd Feb 18, 6:24 PM
    • #9
    • 2nd Feb 18, 6:24 PM
    gyms attitude or not , the fact that an "employee" , and you have stated he was , when not doing PT gave out the tickets

    savour that if it gets to court


    "was fred bloggs a gym employee " YES
    "did he hand out permits" YES

    thank you

    case dismissedc
    Save a Rachael

    buy a share in crapita
    • NewNewMoney
    • By NewNewMoney 2nd Feb 18, 6:36 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    NewNewMoney
    Okay so I just need The Gym to admit/provide evidence that he was an employee at the time, and I need to track down my contract with him?
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 2nd Feb 18, 6:41 PM
    • 8,175 Posts
    • 7,471 Thanks
    The Deep
    Gladstones may soon be brown bread, best not to accord them too much respect.
    Last edited by The Deep; 15-02-2018 at 9:47 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 2nd Feb 18, 6:49 PM
    • 8,706 Posts
    • 9,279 Thanks
    pappa golf
    Okay so I just need The Gym to admit/provide evidence that he was an employee at the time, and I need to track down my contract with him?
    Originally posted by NewNewMoney

    let them come to court if needed ,

    you have done your bit , your statement will say a gym employee gave you token , if they disagree , call the gym manager to court

    anything by email if so save it
    Save a Rachael

    buy a share in crapita
    • NewNewMoney
    • By NewNewMoney 2nd Feb 18, 7:23 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    NewNewMoney
    And that's enough? To say I got the permit from an employee at The Gym?
    • NewNewMoney
    • By NewNewMoney 2nd Feb 18, 7:25 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    NewNewMoney
    Gladstones may soon be brown bread, best not to accord them too much respect.
    Originally posted by The Deep
    I don't know how they function. I don't know how they make money and I don't know what self respecting individual would use their services. But they lost my last case so I think they are doing a great job!
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 2nd Feb 18, 7:35 PM
    • 8,706 Posts
    • 9,279 Thanks
    pappa golf
    And that's enough? To say I got the permit from an employee at The Gym?
    Originally posted by NewNewMoney

    do not lie in court

    get the gym manager to repeat the fact that he has since found out that the guy was photocopying them without authority

    you are just taking the tailend of gym mansagers mismanagement , why should YOU suffer due to his lack of control and diligence

    if this kicks off , you will inform him that he will be required in court unless he gets this sorted ASAP , tell him to pay it out of his own pocket or turn up in court

    time to stop the "Mr nice guy" attitude , the gym and the manager do not care about you one bit
    Save a Rachael

    buy a share in crapita
    • NewNewMoney
    • By NewNewMoney 4th Feb 18, 1:00 AM
    • 28 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    NewNewMoney
    So just that I'm clear, I need written proof from the manager about what happened regarding the permits, probably an email. And if they refuse to pay this fine they'll get taken to court.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Feb 18, 1:05 AM
    • 53,999 Posts
    • 67,675 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    It's not a fine. And we beat Gladstones claims at hearings, it's less of a big deal than you might imagine.

    But yes, build up some evidence of the motorists' position as an innocent party, in readiness.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • NewNewMoney
    • By NewNewMoney 7th Feb 18, 4:02 AM
    • 28 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    NewNewMoney
    Do you think I should try and position it as a fine when contacting the gym manager? A fine sort of indicates something that shouldn't be taken lightly and it puts a bit of pressure on them to respond.

    In a worst case scenario, if I can't get them respond and ultimately have no evidence/proof that I was given these permits what should I do?
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 7th Feb 18, 6:57 AM
    • 8,706 Posts
    • 9,279 Thanks
    pappa golf
    YOU stand up in court , let gladstones look idiots by stating YOU photocopied them

    judges are seeing , noting and kicking out gladstones cases every day /

    as you state , the bulk tickets come in 6 and you as a user are supposed to be given one , how the hell did you get 6 on one sheet

    you are being accused of theft and forgery here

    I would be getting a 1/2 hr free consultation with a solisitor , with regards to fighting back if they actually serve court papers
    Last edited by pappa golf; 07-02-2018 at 7:05 AM.
    Save a Rachael

    buy a share in crapita
    • muleskinner
    • By muleskinner 7th Feb 18, 8:16 AM
    • 109 Posts
    • 104 Thanks
    muleskinner
    If the guy who gave you the permits was a gym employee then the gym is ultimately liable.

    if Glastards should take you to court and you lose then I'd have thought you have a very good case taking the gym to court to compensate you for any financial loss and all the stress/hassle you'll have suffered. Might be worth pointing that out to them.

    Does the gym own the car park? You might have said this but I couldn't see on a quick scan through the thread.

    Unusually it seems it's the landowner behaving worse here than the PPC!

    Also, regarding their 'no liability for PTs' clause they state in their contracts. More than likely unenforceable.
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