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    • atrixblue.-MFR-.
    • By atrixblue.-MFR-. 2nd Feb 18, 2:28 PM
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    atrixblue.-MFR-.
    School uniform policy. is it going too far?
    • #1
    • 2nd Feb 18, 2:28 PM
    School uniform policy. is it going too far? 2nd Feb 18 at 2:28 PM
    Secondary school uniform policy, is it going too far? I mean, back in my day it was a stud for an earing, skirts to 2inches above the knee max, as long as you had school ties and school colours on it was fine, 1 inch heals max, trainers only in gym and outdoor sports, wear any PE kit that suited.


    Now My daughter has ASD/ADHD, She has sensory issues in which she cannot have certain materials touch her skin, it makes her skin crawl, she's not too bad in shirts so long as they're not restrictive and not too silky and have all tags cut off.


    She is a Size 6 maximum very slim and petite (she is exact of me when I was her age, could eat anything and not put a bean on) so getting trousers for her is a challenge in its own right add in other factors and school uniform policy and I'm between a rock and hard place looking for needles in a haystack.


    School policy states:


    No skirt above mid knee.
    No trousers that have a zip pocket, no trouser to have a rear zip pocket, zip up to waist band accepted with clasp. No Jeggings, No leggings, No jeans, No Leggings under skirts.
    School Gym PPE uniform must be adhered to No skorts. No tracksuit bottoms, No white tennis socks, suitable footware to be we worn for outdoor or indoor gym use Must use anti skid Socks whilst indoors for pe at all times when partaking in Gymnastics (available at school shop) School branded and badged socks are avaialibe in the school shop for hockey, rugby, football,netball, cross country, Must have school badge on bottoms and top of school PE weather proofs (avaialable in the school or authorised local sports center), School badge on school jumper, cardigan, and jackets (available at the school shop).
    Winter jackets can be home supplied but must be Black in colour, no drawer strings for the kneck area or hood, No hoodies, V kneck jumper only we advise you purchase winter jackets when available order forms will be given to pupils on last day of term, please hand these back in by 30th September.


    School only buys in size 8 and this is massive on both daughters, trousers I can find that she can wear come with zips, or school condemn them and tell me she cant wear them as they don't conform to school uniform policy fully.


    Their shop items are expensive, £49.99 for a school winter jacket, considering I have twins both 13 in school, that's £100.00. and don't get me started on gym stuff.


    Ive spent the best part of £800 on stuff since September this year trying my best to get my girls to conform to uniform policy, what ever I do its not good enough and they want me to take them out to buy more, or call me in to trawl through the shop stock looking for something that will fit, be the right material, be the right size etc and nothing does trousers wise for her.


    When is toime to say to a school enough is enough, with this its going too far and costing parents on low incomes too much each and every term.
    "We only have one world, But we live in different worlds"- Mark Knopfler Brothers in arms, Miss you gramps.
Page 5
    • GlasweJen
    • By GlasweJen 8th Feb 18, 9:06 PM
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    GlasweJen
    My school uniform was black or grey trousers, not jeans. No rules about zips or buttons or anything like that just no jeans.

    White shirt. It could be any white shirt, long or short sleeved.

    School tie - available to purchase from the office for £3.50

    School sweatshirt - available to purchase from the office, price ranged from
    £17.50 to £25 depending on size.

    That was it. Now the same school is the same as the OP. There!!!8217;s an approved supplier, the sweatshirt has been replaced by a blazer, the trousers are now embroidered with the school logo and must be purchased from the supplier, the school shirt is also only available from the supplier. The school now has a collection of PE uniforms (no such thing when I attended in the late 90s into the millennium), you guessed it - only available from the supplier. Has the school miraculously started producing happier pupils who produce better higher results? That would be a no, the school is doing worse than it ever did prior to the introduction of the super duper uniform.
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    • Tabbytabitha
    • By Tabbytabitha 8th Feb 18, 9:43 PM
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    Tabbytabitha
    With Grammar school though, you could turn down the place and go to the Secondary Modern instead, which probably didn't have a uniform.

    In 1935, my Gran was the only child from her year to pass the 11+ and it was due to the cost of the uniform and text books that her Dad didn't want her to take the place. He was over-ruled by her Mum, who said she was going 'even if I have to get down on hands and knees and scrub' which is exactly what she did, found work as a cleaner to pay the additional costs.

    Nowadays even the bog standard local with nothing to write home about exams wise, can have an expensive inflexible uniform policy and most others do too, so changing to somewhere else not always an option.
    Originally posted by Spendless
    Secondary moderns in my area (in the 60s) all had a uniform - I never knew a school in that era that didn't. In the 30s I'm sure that was different but that was before grammar schools/secondary moderns were introduced.
    Last edited by Tabbytabitha; 08-02-2018 at 9:46 PM.
    • onlyroz
    • By onlyroz 9th Feb 18, 12:45 PM
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    onlyroz
    Yes, my parents could have turned down the grammar school place - but what parent would do that if they could possibly help it - like your gran and her mother. My parents ethos was - if you educate a boy, you get an educated man - if you educate a girl, you educate the next generation!
    Originally posted by thorsoak
    My grandmother turned down my mum's offer of a place at Grammar school - largely because of the uniform and commuting costs.
    • Tabbytabitha
    • By Tabbytabitha 9th Feb 18, 1:03 PM
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    Tabbytabitha
    My grandmother turned down my mum's offer of a place at Grammar school - largely because of the uniform and commuting costs.
    Originally posted by onlyroz
    Both my parents passed what was then called the Scholarship Exam ( 1920s)but weren't allowed to go for that reason but, more importantly, because the family needed them to leave school at the earliest possible point to earn and bring money into the home.
    Last edited by Tabbytabitha; 09-02-2018 at 4:29 PM.
    • pigpen
    • By pigpen 9th Feb 18, 1:41 PM
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    pigpen
    That sounds pretty lenient compared with our school.. they have to have logo'd polo shirts, jumpers/cardigans, full pe kit and tracksuit, fleece, winter coat, hat, scarf, shoes have to be entirely black and flat, mid-grey trousers, not jersey or fleece, black or white socks, black tights and knee length skirts.. they have to have a rucksack style bag too with no visible logo... that is waaay too far... and extortionate.. but not so bad as the school my boys went too where one set of uniform was £600.

    but, if it 20p and you dont have it then it is a lot.. do the school not have a second hand box you can buy stuff from?

    Tbh.. I'd tell them to get lost, quote equality/disability rights at them and recite their inclusion policy.
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    • maman
    • By maman 10th Feb 18, 1:05 PM
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    maman
    I think compared to these Japanese parents, OP got off very cheaply!
    https://news.sky.com/story/outrage-over-japanese-primary-schools-500-armani-uniform-11242189
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 10th Feb 18, 2:29 PM
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    badmemory
    This is not what school uniform used to be all about. It was to stop the discrimination against the less well off & to avoid the school being a version of a fashion show. Now it appears to be a question of how much debt the parents can put on their credit cards - this was not it's purpose.
    • maman
    • By maman 10th Feb 18, 5:36 PM
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    maman
    This is not what school uniform used to be all about. It was to stop the discrimination against the less well off & to avoid the school being a version of a fashion show. Now it appears to be a question of how much debt the parents can put on their credit cards - this was not it's purpose.
    Originally posted by badmemory
    I agree about uniform guarding against a fashion show. That's why OP's daughter isn't allowed zips or leggings or jeggings.

    However, there's always been an element of elitism in uniform between schools. That's why private schools and grammars have gone for straw boaters and blazers with braid and that sort of thing. It got to the point where jumpers signified downmarket. So to 'talk up' the fact that they intended to compete for high standards, those schools have introduced 'traditional' uniforms and enforced them strongly.

    If parents and pupils don't like it schools will be happy to see them go elsewhere. No school would fight to keep pupils or parents who don't want to follow the school rules.
    • Fireflyaway
    • By Fireflyaway 10th Feb 18, 8:06 PM
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    Fireflyaway
    I've thought for years there should be a national school uniform! It would cost pence to produce due to the volume.
    When a child starts school they get it for free. There after, its paid out of child benefit which under my proposal would not be paid in cash but in the form of tokens! Sorted. Child benefit tokens could be redeemed for stationary, school uniform, fruit and veg, books etc.
    Last edited by Fireflyaway; 10-02-2018 at 8:07 PM. Reason: T
    • Spendless
    • By Spendless 11th Feb 18, 8:34 AM
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    Spendless
    I've thought for years there should be a national school uniform! It would cost pence to produce due to the volume.
    When a child starts school they get it for free. There after, its paid out of child benefit which under my proposal would not be paid in cash but in the form of tokens! Sorted. Child benefit tokens could be redeemed for stationary, school uniform, fruit and veg, books etc.
    Originally posted by Fireflyaway
    What are you going to do about the households that don't receive CB? The ones where because there's a HR taxpayer in the household they don't qualify, but if the same household income was split more equally between the parents they would?
    • Tabbytabitha
    • By Tabbytabitha 11th Feb 18, 9:00 AM
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    Tabbytabitha
    I've thought for years there should be a national school uniform! It would cost pence to produce due to the volume.
    When a child starts school they get it for free. There after, its paid out of child benefit which under my proposal would not be paid in cash but in the form of tokens! Sorted. Child benefit tokens could be redeemed for stationary, school uniform, fruit and veg, books etc.
    Originally posted by Fireflyaway
    I've no problems with CB tokens but one of the reasons for different schools having different uniforms is to distinguish pupils when away from the school.
    • maman
    • By maman 11th Feb 18, 12:07 PM
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    maman
    I've thought for years there should be a national school uniform! It would cost pence to produce due to the volume.
    Originally posted by Fireflyaway

    But we have a government that has actively encouraged competition between schools so making them all look the same wouldn't work.


    Going way back they introduced parental preference over sending your child to the local school.


    More recently they encouraged schools to bid for money by becoming Specialist colleges.


    Currently they encourage free schools and academies to compete with Local Authority maintained schools and are trying to find ways of increasing numbers of grammar places.


    It's a cut throat business. National uniform isn't going to happen.
    • atrixblue.-MFR-.
    • By atrixblue.-MFR-. 11th Feb 18, 3:38 PM
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    atrixblue.-MFR-.
    After the school uniform saga we made an agreement with school that on the basis of her wearing school colours no jegging no leggings or jeans she could wear zip pockets trousers. I asked school to E-mail alert all her teachers this was agreed so there was no questioning her when she was in class about it and sending her to isolation. He says he did this, but the last class of the day teacher put her in isolation and said that she didn't have no E-mail Daughter asked her to double check teacher refused to do so. Daughter went to over to deputy head to explain this and then he said it was for ONE DAY ONLY, this was not what was agreed. Then Daughter walked into a pole in school on way out and hit two teeth loose, Unfortunately daughters a violent person when hurt, and best course is to let her ride it out and calm down so daughter walked into the tutors room where it was empty put head in hands and screamed the place down in frustration and pain, another teacher came in and gave her a stern talking to about her screaming, teacher told her it was pathetic for her age, and to get out of the tutors room and stand against the heads corridor for yet another talking to!. Daughter had enough by this point and just walked out of school instead.


    The above is paragraph from my newest thread.


    Sorry I haven't been updating here, been really busy sorting uniform saga out. then it went T I T S Up! as per new thread. more details over the new thread I thought more appropriate to start a new thread as its a new topic.


    Feel free to merger them though if you disagree!.
    "We only have one world, But we live in different worlds"- Mark Knopfler Brothers in arms, Miss you gramps.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 11th Feb 18, 4:18 PM
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    unholyangel
    The government runs the education system though and has the power to put a stop to this sort of bs.

    Suggesting that the op homeschools their kids after they have been forced to pay huge amounts of tax to fund the education system is not reasonable.
    Originally posted by Energize
    Most parents don't pay enough tax to fund their kids education, never mind anything else. A single earner would need to earn over 45k before they paid enough tax for 1 child. Two parent earners would need to earn 30k each before they paid enough tax for 1 child (and thats not paying for the parents share of services, just 1 child). The median wage in the uk is 22k.

    As for the uniforms, they're not that crazy round here yet thankfully. Although when I was at high school there was research indicating exam results improved when uniforms were less rigid - cue schools getting rid of shirts, blazers & ties and bringing in more casual uniforms (which the student body voted on). The school also backed down on a boy = trousers/girl = skirt policy under pressure from the female students who were sick of the boys trying to lift their skirt/put their hands up.
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    • Fireflyaway
    • By Fireflyaway 12th Feb 18, 4:54 PM
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    Fireflyaway
    What are you going to do about the households that don't receive CB? The ones where because there's a HR taxpayer in the household they don't qualify, but if the same household income was split more equally between the parents they would?
    Originally posted by Spendless
    Personally I'd stop cb altogether! If you (general you - not you personally!) have a child you should support it, not have money from the public purse. All that cb could go a long way to improving care for the elderly for example.
    However if cb is a thing, better its done in a way that means the money had to be spent on kids not just paid in cash that can be used for anything! A voucher system for example.
    Also, why do different schools need to be identified by a uniform? Not sure why that's needed?
    • Tabbytabitha
    • By Tabbytabitha 12th Feb 18, 5:28 PM
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    Tabbytabitha
    Personally I'd stop cb altogether! If you (general you - not you personally!) have a child you should support it, not have money from the public purse. All that cb could go a long way to improving care for the elderly for example.
    However if cb is a thing, better its done in a way that means the money had to be spent on kids not just paid in cash that can be used for anything! A voucher system for example.
    Also, why do different schools need to be identified by a uniform? Not sure why that's needed?
    Originally posted by Fireflyaway
    You've obviously never taken kids on school trips, competitions or events when there are several schools in attendance.
    • Spendless
    • By Spendless 12th Feb 18, 9:05 PM
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    Spendless
    You've obviously never taken kids on school trips, competitions or events when there are several schools in attendance.
    Originally posted by Tabbytabitha
    Genuine question, what do countries that don't have school uniform do about this?

    The only thing that comes to mind is one year we holidayed in Florida when the schools were about to break up and there were a lot of kids at the Disney parks on school trips. They were wearing a t-shirt with the school's name on.
    • Tabbytabitha
    • By Tabbytabitha 12th Feb 18, 9:35 PM
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    Tabbytabitha
    Genuine question, what do countries that don't have school uniform do about this?

    The only thing that comes to mind is one year we holidayed in Florida when the schools were about to break up and there were a lot of kids at the Disney parks on school trips. They were wearing a t-shirt with the school's name on.
    Originally posted by Spendless
    IME, t -shirts, sweatshirts or caps, which is ok for informal events but doesn't present a great image for older students when going on something like a careers event.
    • maman
    • By maman 13th Feb 18, 11:28 AM
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    maman
    Personally I'd stop cb altogether! If you (general you - not you personally!) have a child you should support it, not have money from the public purse. All that cb could go a long way to improving care for the elderly for example.
    However if cb is a thing, better its done in a way that means the money had to be spent on kids not just paid in cash that can be used for anything! A voucher system for example.
    Also, why do different schools need to be identified by a uniform? Not sure why that's needed?
    Originally posted by Fireflyaway

    There are lots of reasons including 'work clothes' to engender good attitudes and discourage competition. But I believe the main reason we're seeing an explosion of blazers and strict adherence to policy is branding. So the same reason as a company has logos, staff wear uniforms, everyone recognises the golden arches etc.


    IMO, Child Benefit could stop at either aged 3 when the 'free' nursery hours kick in or at the latest 5 when children go to full time school. I think I might stop at 2 children per family as well.
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