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  • FIRST POST
    • BJL55
    • By BJL55 31st Jan 18, 7:32 PM
    • 13Posts
    • 1Thanks
    BJL55
    Requesting a guaranteed CETV
    • #1
    • 31st Jan 18, 7:32 PM
    Requesting a guaranteed CETV 31st Jan 18 at 7:32 PM
    If I request a guaranteed CETV I've been advised that I will have to leave the DB scheme which closed to new members 10years ago, this was replaced by a DC scheme which I will also have to leave, both are with the same employer who I still work for.

    In the event that the CETV is significantly different from the quote received in November and I decide to continue working I have given up any future increase in the DB scheme via salary increase over a 36month calculating period. I can however rejoin the DC scheme.

    Is this normal practice?
Page 1
    • molerat
    • By molerat 31st Jan 18, 8:34 PM
    • 17,944 Posts
    • 12,210 Thanks
    molerat
    • #2
    • 31st Jan 18, 8:34 PM
    • #2
    • 31st Jan 18, 8:34 PM
    Not heard of that one before but they can charge you the cost of preparing another CETV quote which may run to several hundred £.
    Last edited by molerat; 31-01-2018 at 8:36 PM.
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    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 31st Jan 18, 8:37 PM
    • 8,249 Posts
    • 8,981 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    • #3
    • 31st Jan 18, 8:37 PM
    • #3
    • 31st Jan 18, 8:37 PM
    It doesn!!!8217;t sound right to me..
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 31st Jan 18, 8:54 PM
    • 24,536 Posts
    • 14,384 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #4
    • 31st Jan 18, 8:54 PM
    • #4
    • 31st Jan 18, 8:54 PM
    In the event that the CETV is significantly different from the quote received in November and I decide to continue working I have given up any future increase in the DB scheme via salary increase over a 36month calculating period. I can however rejoin the DC scheme.
    Are you sure of this? It really sounds very strange.... an alteration to your pension just for making an enquiry?

    It isn't just a case of making a charge if you want more than one CETV per year?
    • BJL55
    • By BJL55 31st Jan 18, 10:15 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    BJL55
    • #5
    • 31st Jan 18, 10:15 PM
    • #5
    • 31st Jan 18, 10:15 PM
    Many thanks for your replies.

    I asked the question to the scheme secretary and she gave me a direct answer.
    I know if I request an additional quote within a calendar year it will cost me £200 but to lose pension rights by asking for a gauranteed quote seam questionable to me.

    I will have to make further enquires with the trustees.
    • mgdavid
    • By mgdavid 1st Feb 18, 1:22 AM
    • 5,378 Posts
    • 4,637 Thanks
    mgdavid
    • #6
    • 1st Feb 18, 1:22 AM
    • #6
    • 1st Feb 18, 1:22 AM
    Just obtain a copy of the Scheme Rules (which you are entitled to) - and read them.
    A salary slave no more.....
    • squirrelpie
    • By squirrelpie 2nd Feb 18, 12:40 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    squirrelpie
    • #7
    • 2nd Feb 18, 12:40 PM
    • #7
    • 2nd Feb 18, 12:40 PM
    I was quite surprised when I took early retirement that I couldn't get a transfer value whilst I was an active member of the scheme (i.e. employed). In order to get a transfer value, I would have had to leave without retiring and so become a deferred member. But if I did that and then didn't want to transfer out, I would have got worse terms when I did take up the pension. I don't know whether the rules of my scheme were a hangover from some previous legal background, or whether they were set up to discourage people from transferring out (and thereby losing the benefits of the DB scheme). I was quite annoyed at the time that I couldn't even check, but I suspect the DB pension is a better option, so I've accepted it now. But yes, there are schemes with funny rules about getting transfer values.
    • cloud_dog
    • By cloud_dog 2nd Feb 18, 1:25 PM
    • 3,508 Posts
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    cloud_dog
    • #8
    • 2nd Feb 18, 1:25 PM
    • #8
    • 2nd Feb 18, 1:25 PM
    This is going to be interesting because I have requested a CETV from the scheme administrators (Capita), as I want to do exactly this; understand the potential value so I can weight up the pros and cons before deciding.

    So if this is common practice I may not be able to follow through with my review plans.
    Personal Responsibility - Sad but True

    Sometimes.... I am like a dog with a bone
    • cloud_dog
    • By cloud_dog 2nd Feb 18, 1:28 PM
    • 3,508 Posts
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    cloud_dog
    • #9
    • 2nd Feb 18, 1:28 PM
    • #9
    • 2nd Feb 18, 1:28 PM
    Oh poo. Did a quick search and found this:

    *NOTE: You must have left your scheme and no longer be an active member for this to apply. If you are still an active member then the guaranteed transfer value will not apply.
    Personal Responsibility - Sad but True

    Sometimes.... I am like a dog with a bone
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 2nd Feb 18, 1:55 PM
    • 2,288 Posts
    • 3,082 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    Perfectly normal.

    The value of a DB pension varies from day to day - change in final pensionable pay, length of service, etc.

    The scheme may give you an estimated CETV up to the day you requested it, but they will only give you a guarantee once you have left the scheme, and your confirmed final pay and service details have been checked and input to your record.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 2nd Feb 18, 3:28 PM
    • 24,536 Posts
    • 14,384 Thanks
    xylophone
    The scheme may give you an estimated CETV
    https://shropshire.gov.uk/committee-services/documents/s10719/6.%20Comms%20and%20Safeguarding%20Appendix%20A%20C %20%20ETV%20Request.pdf

    If you wish to request a Cash Equivalent Transfer Value (CETV) of your pension savings in the
    Local Government Pension Scheme (LGPS) and you are currently paying into the LGPS, we will
    work out an estimated CETV
    and send it to you when you have completed, signed and returned the CETV Request Form. We would normally do this within 3 months of receipt of the form

    If you are an !!!8216;active member!!!8217; of the LGPS i.e. currently paying into the LGPS, we cannot pay a
    CETV of your LGPS benefits...


    But it doesn't say that just requesting a CETV will have the effect of reducing benefits....
    • BJL55
    • By BJL55 2nd Feb 18, 10:13 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    BJL55
    Thanks for all the replies.

    From the relpies it seams that is quite a common rule.

    I have read the scheme rules booklet and can't see any thing mentioned specific for the DB scheme, the rules for the DB scheme have not been updated since 2012 however the rules for the DC were updated last year.

    It's now in the hands of my IFA.
    • BJL55
    • By BJL55 6th Feb 18, 12:13 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    BJL55
    Here's the companies response:

    "When a member chooses to leave active DB membership without immediately retiring, they remain a plan member but these DB benefits are deferred. If they choose not to take a CETV, and choose to remain in employment, they cannot then be “re-instated” as an active DB member.

    In order to receive a guaranteed cash equivalent transfer value, a member must have left active DB membership of the plan. If they choose not to accept the CETV, they do not lose all DB benefits, but instead they will receive an annual (paid monthly) DB pension. This is not re-joining the DB plan, as the member never left it. Once a member has started receiving an annual DB pension they cannot then take a CETV."

    I still think it's a bit of a penalty as the scheme closed 10 years ago and my salary is a known figure.
    • sandsy
    • By sandsy 6th Feb 18, 7:25 AM
    • 1,276 Posts
    • 757 Thanks
    sandsy
    Are the DB scheme benefits based on your salary at the time the scheme closed or your current salary?
    • BJL55
    • By BJL55 6th Feb 18, 12:44 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    BJL55
    Are the DB scheme benefits based on your salary at the time the scheme closed or your current salary?
    Originally posted by sandsy
    Will be based on current salary.
    • Parking Trouble
    • By Parking Trouble 6th Feb 18, 12:55 PM
    • 564 Posts
    • 154 Thanks
    Parking Trouble
    I am an active member of a DB scheme (large bank) and they have given me an indicative figure only.

    You have to leave the scheme, become a deferred member to get a guaranteed CETV figure.
    Mr Straw described whiplash as "not so much an injury, more a profitable invention of the human imagination—undiagnosable except by third-rate doctors in the pay of the claims management companies or personal injury lawyers"

    • Tcquins
    • By Tcquins 6th Feb 18, 1:15 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Tcquins
    For scheme administrators, it isn!!!8217;t possible to to offer a !!!8216;guaranteed CETV!!!!8217; while you are still accruing pension rights. A guarantee last 3 months, however you are still accruing rights unless you are a deferred member of the scheme.

    So you can only get an estimated transfer value, and quote of retirement benefits based on you opting out at the end of the month.

    Only when you opt out and stop accruing pension rights will you have the right to ask for a guaranteed CETV
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