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  • FIRST POST
    • mschris
    • By mschris 30th Jan 18, 8:25 PM
    • 13Posts
    • 0Thanks
    mschris
    Employer Private Health - 350 for 10 minutes
    • #1
    • 30th Jan 18, 8:25 PM
    Employer Private Health - 350 for 10 minutes 30th Jan 18 at 8:25 PM
    Hey all,

    Can someone please help me with this I don't know what to do. I had Vitality - private medical - through my employer

    I basically attended an appointment / consultation with a Doctor AFTER I left my job. This appointment was 10 minutes however as a result I'm being invoiced 350.

    I'll explain as a timeline as I think it's clearer:

    November - first time using private medical, I called the claim line, I explained my health issue and the claim authorised, appointment booked for 14th January (i assumed it was paid for then)

    December - handed in notice
    late December - left company

    January - attended appointment

    Now, I thought that since the claim was approved and booked that everything was sorted. However the problem is that they're saying as I left my job I have no cover. It's not paid / authorised the date I call, it's done on the actual date I attend.

    My entire problem why does Vitality have no responsibility to tell me? why would I get not get an e-mail when I leave. Why would it not be cancelled? Like how is this possible? How is this down to me?

    I know,everyone is going to say read the small print. I read SO much of it, I spent like a good 3 days commuting reading all this documentation so I could understand was covered and wasn't. However I don't remember reading any of this.

    What can I do?
Page 1
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 30th Jan 18, 9:26 PM
    • 36,708 Posts
    • 154,901 Thanks
    silvercar
    • #2
    • 30th Jan 18, 9:26 PM
    • #2
    • 30th Jan 18, 9:26 PM
    Employee benefits end when you are no longer an employee.

    Any chance you were on leave/ gardening leave?

    They didn't give you this information because it was you that gave notice to them.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 30th Jan 18, 9:27 PM
    • 36,708 Posts
    • 154,901 Thanks
    silvercar
    • #3
    • 30th Jan 18, 9:27 PM
    • #3
    • 30th Jan 18, 9:27 PM
    One thing to try is phone up the consultants secretary and explain you are now self funding. You may find the cost to self funding patients is lower.
    • Caz3121
    • By Caz3121 31st Jan 18, 8:32 AM
    • 11,040 Posts
    • 7,240 Thanks
    Caz3121
    • #4
    • 31st Jan 18, 8:32 AM
    • #4
    • 31st Jan 18, 8:32 AM
    from the Vitality site
    WHAT HAPPENS IF I LEAVE THE COMPANY?
    Your cover ends on your leaving date which means we won!!!8217;t pay for any more treatment you have after that date even if you!!!8217;re in
    the middle of treatment at the time or we!!!8217;ve authorised that treatment in advance
    . Depending on your age and how long you!!!8217;ve been covered under your company scheme, you may be eligible to continue your cover with us on an individual plan with the same personal underwriting terms.

    https://www.vitality.co.uk/health-insurance/leaving-a-company/
    • csgohan4
    • By csgohan4 31st Jan 18, 9:08 AM
    • 4,298 Posts
    • 2,688 Thanks
    csgohan4
    • #5
    • 31st Jan 18, 9:08 AM
    • #5
    • 31st Jan 18, 9:08 AM
    always important to read T+C even if it is a free service....
    "It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land"
    • mschris
    • By mschris 6th Feb 18, 10:06 PM
    • 13 Posts
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    mschris
    • #6
    • 6th Feb 18, 10:06 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Feb 18, 10:06 PM
    always important to read T+C
    I understand this...I read so much of it, obviously I didn't understand / read / remember that section. I wouldn't have willing chosen to spend 353 like this.

    They didn't give you this information because it was you that gave notice to them.
    No my employer did nothing like this...it was quite bad they didn't really explain much to me.

    We had a Vitality person come in but they just talked-up how amazing it was to us. Which is a totally different conversation when actually speak to other staff and they tell you all the pitfalls and "gotchas" and things that aren't covered.

    Is there anything I can do?

    My whole POV is this shouldn't be possible? Eg. I should have had the appointment cancelled, or I should have to had to sign something to agree to pay. Or I should have got an e-mail as soon as I handed in my notice, or an email / text / letter as soon as I left.

    It shouldn't be setup like this - it doesn't protect me as a customer.

    You might disagree - read the T&Cs - this is great, but doesn't help at all. It's also about treating customers fairly.

    I obviously had no idea it would cost this for a 9 minute chat otherwise I wouldn't have gone.....I might have then been charged for a missed appointment.

    Can anyone think of an out-of-the-box solution? Would my employer be partially liable? Can I fight this legally? Can I come at this from a different angle?
    • choccielover
    • By choccielover 6th Feb 18, 10:16 PM
    • 379 Posts
    • 1,340 Thanks
    choccielover
    • #7
    • 6th Feb 18, 10:16 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Feb 18, 10:16 PM
    I don!!!8217;t think you have any come back really.

    You chose to see a doctor and booked a private appointment. Your cover would have paid for this but won!!!8217;t as you were no longer in the employment that gave you this benefit.

    Why is the onus on the employer to tell you what you!!!8217;ve given up on leaving the company rather than you assuming that an appointment you had after leaving the company would still be covered.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 6th Feb 18, 10:38 PM
    • 36,708 Posts
    • 154,901 Thanks
    silvercar
    • #8
    • 6th Feb 18, 10:38 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Feb 18, 10:38 PM
    My whole POV is this shouldn't be possible? Eg. I should have had the appointment cancelled, or I should have to had to sign something to agree to pay. Or I should have got an e-mail as soon as I handed in my notice, or an email / text / letter as soon as I left.
    I suspect you signed something when you booked in to the appointment agreeing to pay for anything that wasn't covered.

    Any chance you could now take vitality insurance out for yourself and they would link coverage so it would be one continuous cover from when you left?
    • mschris
    • By mschris 7th Feb 18, 9:44 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    mschris
    • #9
    • 7th Feb 18, 9:44 AM
    • #9
    • 7th Feb 18, 9:44 AM
    Why is the onus on the employer to tell you what you've given up on leaving the company rather than you assuming that an appointment you had after leaving the company would still be covered.
    Why? When I booked the appointment the e-mails and wording were all along the lines of "this claim has been authorised, there is nothing you need to do, please attend the appointment on this date."

    I believe they have partial responsibly around 30% only as good practice and in the interest of stopping something like this happening. Apart from the - for-profit - company who does this situation benefit?

    Why would the employer not have some responsibility to make this clear to an employee?

    Hypothetically, say the situation was more drastic - someone was in the middle of cancer treatment and they decided to hand in their notice as they couldn't deal with work.
    Would you expect them to tell an employee then?
    Would you expect Vitality to step in and tell me?
    Or would you expect someone - in the middle of that type of treatment - to be charged 1000s?

    I suspect you signed something when you booked in to the appointment agreeing to pay for anything that wasn't covered.
    Not like a new document, when I joined the company and signed a form to have health insurance, it was this signature that agrees to this.

    Any chance you could now take vitality insurance out for yourself and they would link coverage so it would be one continuous cover from when you left?
    Hmm I doubt it, it would probably have to be before, I doubt it would work retrospectively.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 7th Feb 18, 10:19 AM
    • 91,128 Posts
    • 58,147 Thanks
    dunstonh
    Why would the employer not have some responsibility to make this clear to an employee?
    You stated in your first post that you had the appointment AFTER you ceased to be an employee. After you were no longer covered by the insurance.

    Hypothetically, say the situation was more drastic - someone was in the middle of cancer treatment and they decided to hand in their notice as they couldn't deal with work.
    Would you expect them to tell an employee then?
    Would you expect Vitality to step in and tell me?
    Or would you expect someone - in the middle of that type of treatment - to be charged 1000s?
    You would think they would have the common sense to know that an employer benefit is going to end when employment does. However, the terms usually stated in the welcome pack for you to read when these sorts of things happen.

    If you choose not to read the documents, then it doesnt really matter whether they tell you or not. You havent read them so you wouldnt know.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • mschris
    • By mschris 7th Feb 18, 3:25 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    mschris
    If you choose not to read the documents, then it doesnt really matter whether they tell you or not. You havent read them so you wouldnt know.
    I didn't choose not to read the docs.
    I read them it just wasn't clear to me....there wasn't a section that said:

    "if you have a claim authorised 2 months before you hand in your notice and the appointment happens to be booked after you leave. Then the date you attend the appointment will be the date that is charged not the date you called to authorise the claim. Also, a initial consultation is classified as a treatment, and you will have no idea of the cost."

    It never said that ^

    Does everyone believe this is fair then? Just? Ok? 100% my fault?
    • csgohan4
    • By csgohan4 7th Feb 18, 5:44 PM
    • 4,298 Posts
    • 2,688 Thanks
    csgohan4
    if your not sure, clarify, don't assume. Insurance companies can't read your mind and think of every hypothetical scenario for you.
    Last edited by csgohan4; 07-02-2018 at 9:25 PM.
    "It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land"
    • ValiantSon
    • By ValiantSon 7th Feb 18, 7:46 PM
    • 869 Posts
    • 700 Thanks
    ValiantSon
    Why? When I booked the appointment the e-mails and wording were all along the lines of "this claim has been authorised, there is nothing you need to do, please attend the appointment on this date."
    Originally posted by mschris
    Yes, because when you booked the appointment/received authorisation to book, you were an employee and therefore insured.

    I believe they have partial responsibly around 30% only as good practice and in the interest of stopping something like this happening. Apart from the - for-profit - company who does this situation benefit?
    Originally posted by mschris
    No, they have no responsibility. You are responsible for ensuring that your insurance is valid, and the terms of the policy would have told you that it wasn't. Indeed, common sense should have told you. Why would you continue to receive employee benefits after leaving employment? You wouldn't expect them to carry on paying you, so why would any other parts of your remuneration still be valid?

    Where did you get the 30% figure from?

    Why would the employer not have some responsibility to make this clear to an employee?
    Originally posted by mschris
    You aren't an employee anymore and you weren't when you attended the appointment. You left the employment and your employer was under no obligation to say to you, "Oh, by the way, your medical insurance is no longer valid." No one could reasonably expect that it would be.

    Hypothetically, say the situation was more drastic - someone was in the middle of cancer treatment and they decided to hand in their notice as they couldn't deal with work.
    Would you expect them to tell an employee then?
    Would you expect Vitality to step in and tell me?
    Or would you expect someone - in the middle of that type of treatment - to be charged 1000s?
    Originally posted by mschris
    This is not the same, but yes, I would expect the employee to understand that by terminating their contract they would lose their remuneration package, because that's what happens when you leave employment.

    You made a mistake and it has cost you, but it was your mistake and yours alone.
    • mschris
    • By mschris 9th Feb 18, 9:28 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    mschris
    You made a mistake and it has cost you, but it was your mistake and yours alone.
    So you think this is fair? Just? There's nothing wrong with this process.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 9th Feb 18, 10:02 AM
    • 34,575 Posts
    • 18,562 Thanks
    Quentin
    You are missing the point!

    Would it be fair to expect your other job perks to continue after you left that employer?

    What happens regarding your private health insurance when your employment ends was set out in the policy docs but you say you forgot!!
    • stator
    • By stator 9th Feb 18, 10:12 AM
    • 6,032 Posts
    • 3,976 Thanks
    stator
    Yes, it's fair.
    Your expectations from everyone else are too high.
    There is no computer that would have detected that you had left your employer and had a medical appointment outstanding. No-one would have been notified about this. Only you would have known this was happening.
    If this sort of thing ever ended up in court because you refused to pay the judge would just say that you should have realised it might be a problem and that you should have checked.
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
    • martinsurrey
    • By martinsurrey 9th Feb 18, 11:38 AM
    • 3,327 Posts
    • 4,072 Thanks
    martinsurrey
    So you think this is fair? Just? There's nothing wrong with this process.
    Originally posted by mschris
    it look me 30 seconds to find

    T&c's

    and 15 seconds to find this in it

    "WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU (THE INSURED
    MEMBER) LEAVE THE COMPANY?
    Your cover ends on your leaving date which
    means we wont pay for any more treatment
    you have after that date even if youre in
    the middle of treatment at the time or
    weve authorised that treatment in advance."

    you are 100% at fault here. Nothing wrong with the documentation or the policy, or the process, you just didn't do your homework, its very plainly worded and crystal clear
    • bigisi
    • By bigisi 9th Feb 18, 11:44 AM
    • 58 Posts
    • 122 Thanks
    bigisi
    So you think this is fair? Just? There's nothing wrong with this process.
    Originally posted by mschris
    Funny how you've only quoted this part of the post. Completely ignoring the perfectly valid other points made.

    If you were only wanting replies from people who are telling you you're completely in the right and are owed squillions in compo, you should have made this perfectly clear in your OP and saved people the time.
    • mschris
    • By mschris 9th Feb 18, 9:52 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    mschris
    You are missing the point!
    No, I think you are. People design process. You would design process to stop this happening. It's simple user experience. This process doesn't help anyone! You design a process that either stops this happening or creates a layer so the customer is aware of the cost and had to actively agree to it.

    Do you think unexpected crazy roaming charges were fair even if they were in the T&Cs? No, it's about common sense and stopping companies like this using this type of pitfall like a revenue stream. You don't realise as well, the doctor charged 140 - there are like 4 companies in the middle that increased this to 353 - essentially for admin.

    Do you think this is proportionate? Fair?

    Any chance you could now take vitality insurance out for yourself and they would link coverage so it would be one continuous cover from when you left?
    It's a good idea but I think it would be more than 353 annually? sort of destroying the point. Also I imagine it would need to be done before not after the event? I will query it though.

    Where did you get the 30% figure from?
    I just made up a partial responsibility percentage that felt right

    "Oh, by the way, your medical insurance is no longer valid." No one could reasonably expect that it would be.
    Of course, but I didn't think it was valid in the same way. I thought the appointment that was authorised two months before was already paid.

    I actually had the thought if I missed it i would be charged.

    Would it be fair to expect your other job perks to continue after you left that employer?
    No, of course I wouldn't, and didn't. This is why I called up after I attended a "chat" prior to treatment to find out what would happen. This was a consultation that I thought was already paid for.

    What happens regarding your private health insurance when your employment ends was set out in the policy docs but you say you forgot!!
    I didn't say I forgot. I said that when it was authorised I thought it was done on the date I called! Not the date I attended.

    If my phone gets stolen, the claim is authorised / covered on the day I claim / the day of the actual incident. Not the day I receive the new phone.

    it look me 30 seconds to find T&c's and 15 seconds to find this in it
    I didn't look up the terms on the day of the appointment - as in my mind it wasn't a query I had.

    Yes, it's fair.
    Your expectations from everyone else are too high.
    Really? I don't accept this. Your expectations are far far too low. This is the legacy pitfalls of this type of company. Something setup in the 80s and hasn't gone through disruption. There is no way in hell a new modern, maybe app based, progressive health insurance company would allow this (and that's just the surface, there's no way in 10 years time all of the discriminatory conditions wouldn't be covered as well)

    There is no computer that would have detected that you had left your employer and had a medical appointment outstanding.
    OMG. Seriously? We have quantum computing in it's infancy and you're saying that the date I handed in my notice a "date box" couldn't have been updated and an automated notification sent? If you sincerely believe this is outside the realm of software then I don't know where to start...

    No-one would have been notified about this. Only you would have known this was happening.
    ?...Only my HR department, the payroll team, finance team, my manager, the company..no where in that process "update vitality" couldn't have been done. Even Vitality could have had a button on their site or app that says "handed in my notice" - this doesn't exist.

    Funny how you've only quoted this part of the post. Completely ignoring the perfectly valid other points made.

    If you were only wanting replies from people who are telling you you're completely in the right and are owed squillions in compo, you should have made this perfectly clear in your OP and saved people the time.
    Ok I'll make it clear what I want: solutions.

    I believe, this isn't fair, this isn't right - I don't believe I should pay 353 for this. I want solutions to resolve this. If you don't agree with me - thank you for taking the time to read this. I know i made a mistake but I don't need your reply.

    and are owed squillions in compo,
    I don't want this. I was willing to accept and pay maybe 70 for my mistake and move on. 353 is something I cannot afford! That is a serious amount of money.

    I'm surprised at the responses on this forum actually. In real life everyone I speak to responds along the lines of "that's ridiculous / how can they allow it? Can you fight it / I hate private insurance, be glad you're not in the states"

    However on here....the entire sentiment, I don't know it's more blaming me than offering a solution or even challenging the company. Which is really surprising to me.

    If this sort of thing ever ended up in court because you refused to pay the judge would just say that you should have realised it might be a problem and that you should have checked.
    I will challenge it under these conditions.

    - This is not treating customers fairly.
    - I've been expected to agree to a mystery cost without consenting to it.
    - The cost is not proportionate and there unnecessarily added cost
    - It was partially my employer's and vitality's responsibility to ensure that at least at some type of exit / leaving process was in place to prevent such an event.
    - The company was collecting my health data (steps etc - used for commercial gain) after I left without my permission as they didn't cancel my account thus breaching my privacy
    - The appointment was 1 hour late which I will be invoicing for my time

    If anyone else has any other ideas I'd appreciate it.
    Last edited by mschris; 09-02-2018 at 10:29 PM.
    • ValiantSon
    • By ValiantSon 9th Feb 18, 10:16 PM
    • 869 Posts
    • 700 Thanks
    ValiantSon
    So you think this is fair? Just? There's nothing wrong with this process.
    Originally posted by mschris
    I've made it perfectly clear what I think, but just to make you happy (as if) I'll spell it out for you again.... Yes, I think it is fair. No, I don't think there is anything wrong with it.

    You made the error by assuming that you would continue to benefit from your remuneration package after you had left employment. This was not logical or sensible and, unfortunately, you have paid the price (literally) for your lack of thought.
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