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  • FIRST POST
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 27th Jan 18, 9:28 PM
    • 369Posts
    • 121Thanks
    UN17ED
    Sainsburys disability discrimination
    • #1
    • 27th Jan 18, 9:28 PM
    Sainsburys disability discrimination 27th Jan 18 at 9:28 PM
    I would like to say how upset and angry I am over my local Sainsburys who have banned my daughter for no reason and will not speak to any of us as to why she has been banned.

    She has severe ocd and this shop was the only place she would shop, she won't do online shopping and won't let anyone else go shopping for her.

    Shopping for her is a stressful thing because she doesn't like people to go near her trolley, it takes her ages to choose her items as she has to make sure there's nothing wrong with it. She has to wipe every item with cleaning wipes as well and will only use self service and then only certain ones.

    There has been a few incidents when despite all the staff knowing she has it and not to go near her have done and have sprayed cleaning stuff near her food, or gone near her food or even touched it and my daughter has got upset because she will not have any of it.

    We went in there pretty much everyday because of my daughters ocd and would constantly get stared at and we've also been wrongly accused of stealing shopping and also using someone else's bank card.

    I think the thing that led to her being banned was because we went to pay for her shopping and noticed the self service area had been shut down half hour early and when I asked a member of staff why was told because the on duty manager had told them to shut it early because she wanted to leave at 10 when the store shut.

    The member of staff knew us and was understanding about my daughter and always went out of her way to help and explained that they couldn't open any self service tills until next day and that she was really sorry because she knew that my daughter wouldn't be able to eat.

    We had to wait to speak to the on duty manager and on the mean time my daughter went around and put all her items of food back and after she finished the on duty manager spoke to us and said the self service area had been shut because there had been problems with the tills all day, something we know was a lie due ro the member of staff that actually worked in that bit that I previously mentioned.

    It was 3 minutes past 10 when we had finally put certain bits through a normal till and we left the store, my daughter was upset and didn't eat that night.

    I put in a complaint and was told that we didn't get to the self service till according to cctv until 10-10, I replied that was incorrect and that we didn't even go near the self service because I could see from the other end of the sore that it was closed and that it was a quarter to 10 when we had approached the member of staff and this was not near the self service area.

    I tried to say I had a copy of the receipt which showed the time as 3 minutes past 10 but customer services wouldn't budge from the answer of cctv showed 10-10. /I was advised to speak to the store manager and when I eventually got to speak to him after a few days of being told he would ring me back told me that she was banned from the store and would not speak any further about it and hung up.

    This now meant my daughter couldn't eat because of her illness it was the only shop she would get her food from, so I took the complaint to head office explained my daughter couldn't eat and they said they would get back to me,

    It took a week of pressing them to get the answer that nothing had changed and that the ban was upheld and they had nothing more to say. At this point my daughter hadn't eaten for 7 days and as a family we were worried.

    I'm sorry for the long post but it has taken us as a family a long time to be able with help from local health services to get her to shop at another store but it caused a lot of distress and still does because she wants to shop there but she can't because of a ban we have no reason why other than to think it is to do with her severe ocd which is surely discrimination due to disability.
Page 7
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 6th Feb 18, 5:34 PM
    • 2,218 Posts
    • 5,133 Thanks
    Smodlet
    Maybe it!!!8217;s like my diet. If I pretend I didn!!!8217;t eat it then surely the calories don!!!8217;t count?
    Originally posted by marliepanda

    OMG, marliepanda, you have reminded me of something funny at a time when I really need to laugh. Thank you. It goes something like this:

    (Joyce Summers to her daughter, Buffy)
    "You want waffles?"

    Buffy
    "No, but if you want them, I'll help you make them."

    Joyce
    "No, they only don't have calories when I make them for you."

    (Buffy looks confused)

    To the OP, if we all stopped and considered just how filthy supermarket (and probably all other) food, certainly food packaging, is we would all stop eating. Chicken packaging is covered in salmonella, for instance; how can it not be? Panic not, people, so long as normal hygiene is observed at home and meat is cooked properly, there is no risk to healthy individuals. It is what soap and water is for.

    Does anyone really think supermarket products are stored any differently to products bought online? They are kept in warehouses, not in sterile, clinical conditions and no, supermarket workers do not wash their hands after loading up a pallet and before stacking a (thoroughly sterilised) shelf (I've been one)

    All the dust and dirt from the warehouse is right there, on the shelves, on the food whether it comes from a store or is bought online from a warehouse. It could even be argued that fewer people have handled it if bought online: It did not have to be loaded and unloaded yet again before being bought and transported back to a customer's home.

    (Text removed by MSE Forum Team)
    Last edited by Smodlet; 07-02-2018 at 4:03 PM. Reason: MSE removing my text rendered my post nonsensical
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • biscit
    • By biscit 7th Feb 18, 5:49 PM
    • 956 Posts
    • 791 Thanks
    biscit
    It was sprayed at the self service tills.
    Originally posted by UN17ED
    Hmm... I can imagine that happening. I'm not OCD but I would be a little miffed if a hasty colleague didn't take enough care to respect my personal space when cleaning the tills. Also if they came poking about in my shopping.

    Taking your version on face value,It sounds like her OCD made her over react, not react unreasonably.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 7th Feb 18, 7:05 PM
    • 11,915 Posts
    • 9,190 Thanks
    unholyangel
    I’m not sure this is a good thing to admit to on the net.
    Originally posted by hollydays
    Why not? Because people might jump to conclusions and start imagining all sorts of scenarios that aren't true?

    I'd be interested to know if the '2 weeks' and '7 days' without eating actually meant no food at all had been consumed during those time periods.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    Yes no food at all - at least for mine, can't speak for the OP's daughter. I was still drinking water, green tea & black tea though.

    If you ate NOTHING for two full weeks you would be very ill and then at risk of refeeding syndrome when you started to eat again, which is potentially fatal.

    So I don't believe you.
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel
    Before being so disbelieving, why don't you ask some medical professionals qualified in the field as to what is possible? Or read many of the cases where people went up to 2 months without eating.

    I used to think like you - that you wouldn't be able to go more than a couple of days without adverse consequences. Experience has told me otherwise though - and that experience includes a doctor examining me and giving me a clean bill of health. Given (as I said) the only consequence I felt was less energy, I have no reason to doubt my doctor.

    Thats not to say one size fits all - someone who's incredibly underweight and/or running a marathon every day wouldn't likely come out of it as well.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • elsien
    • By elsien 7th Feb 18, 7:09 PM
    • 15,870 Posts
    • 40,055 Thanks
    elsien
    I think the point about OCD which is being missed slightly is that it's not rational and people can't be reasoned out of it by presenting them with sensible arguments. Most people with OCD are fully aware that what they are doing is over the top and extremely damaging to themselves but the need for the ritual and combatting the repetitive intrusive thoughts can't easily be resisted due to the extreme anxiety that causes.
    I stand by my original post about the supermarket not having to make the adjustments the OP would like, but I'm fairly sure the OPs daughter knows already that what is being said about packaging etc is correct. What she needs is proper help to learn some coping mechanisms.to get back to a semblance of a normal life.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • societys child
    • By societys child 7th Feb 18, 8:17 PM
    • 5,054 Posts
    • 5,564 Thanks
    societys child
    t I would be a little miffed if a hasty colleague didn't take enough care to respect my personal space when cleaning the tills..
    Originally posted by biscit
    Is a self check-out till your "personal space"? It's a check-out till, in a shop, anyone can use it and personally I prefer that it's kept clean.

    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 7th Feb 18, 8:20 PM
    • 19,075 Posts
    • 50,375 Thanks
    Pollycat
    Is a self check-out till your "personal space"? It's a check-out till, in a shop, anyone can use it and personally I prefer that it's kept clean.
    Originally posted by societys child
    I'd prefer that too.
    But I wouldn't expect staff to come along and spray the area whilst my items were in the bagging area.
    And most definitely not to move my items when doing so.

    So, I'm still sceptical that that is what really happened.
    • stuartJo1989
    • By stuartJo1989 7th Feb 18, 11:14 PM
    • 446 Posts
    • 471 Thanks
    stuartJo1989
    Before being so disbelieving, why don't you ask some medical professionals qualified in the field as to what is possible? Or read many of the cases where people went up to 2 months without eating.
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    Well, I've only glanced at the research but there does seem to be varying accounts of how long you'd survive. It appears that you CAN easily go 1+ month without food if you are hydrated, so I'll give you that one.

    The question is, why would you want to do that?

    I'm sure that, if you spoke to "some medical professionals", they would strongly recommend that you EAT FOOD as apposed to going without food for 1+ week.

    I used to think like you - that you wouldn't be able to go more than a couple of days without adverse consequences. Experience has told me otherwise though - and that experience includes a doctor examining me and giving me a clean bill of health. Given (as I said) the only consequence I felt was less energy, I have no reason to doubt my doctor.
    Yea, but in fairness don't you think this is an irresponsible thing to post? You sort of say to the world, "hey look at me, I didn't eat in 1-2 weeks and I got a clean bill of health". Just because it didn't affect you, doesn't mean that it won't be the same for another person. On the face of it, OP's daughter probably doesn't have a STOP point whereby they resume eating. It could potentially be playing with fire if we turned round to OP's daughter and shown them your post, effectively saying "you'll be fine!".

    I would be intruiged to know WHY you didn't eat in that time frame though.

    Mental health issue?

    Physical condition (cancer could be an example)?

    Diet? (if so, did your doctor not refer you to the NHS pages which cover long term sustainable weight loss? I'd be doubting the doctor if they hadn't done that!!!)


    I can't really think of any other reasons for not eating?
    Last edited by stuartJo1989; 07-02-2018 at 11:16 PM.
    • TeamPlum
    • By TeamPlum 8th Feb 18, 6:55 AM
    • 182 Posts
    • 446 Thanks
    TeamPlum
    Hi, I'm a hospital dietitian. Just to cofirm, you CAN last for an extremely long time without eating anything . . . but you shouldn't attempt it.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 8th Feb 18, 2:02 PM
    • 11,915 Posts
    • 9,190 Thanks
    unholyangel


    Yea, but in fairness don't you think this is an irresponsible thing to post? You sort of say to the world, "hey look at me, I didn't eat in 1-2 weeks and I got a clean bill of health". Just because it didn't affect you, doesn't mean that it won't be the same for another person. On the face of it, OP's daughter probably doesn't have a STOP point whereby they resume eating. It could potentially be playing with fire if we turned round to OP's daughter and shown them your post, effectively saying "you'll be fine!".

    I would be intruiged to know WHY you didn't eat in that time frame though.

    Mental health issue?

    Physical condition (cancer could be an example)?

    Diet? (if so, did your doctor not refer you to the NHS pages which cover long term sustainable weight loss? I'd be doubting the doctor if they hadn't done that!!!)


    I can't really think of any other reasons for not eating?
    Originally posted by stuartJo1989
    Bereavement.

    If me posting that I went 2 weeks without eating is irresponsible, then surely posting that someone can easily go without food for a month is more so?

    At no point have I (or would I) recommend that someone do it through choice - I wouldn't even recommend fad diets to anyone looking to lose weight. The only thing I'd recommend would be a lifestyle change/a healthy balanced diet.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • stuartJo1989
    • By stuartJo1989 8th Feb 18, 2:46 PM
    • 446 Posts
    • 471 Thanks
    stuartJo1989
    Bereavement.


    If me posting that I went 2 weeks without eating is irresponsible, then surely posting that someone can easily go without food for a month is more so?
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    Well, I only posted that bit to back your point up. Didn't want to be ignorant and dismiss what you said out of hand.

    I'm just not talking about MY EXPERIENCE of not eating! And there's a key difference; in your case you had a stressful life event and your body went all haywire. That's understandable. In OP's case, the daughter's body went all haywire because they got banned from Sainsburys.... Maybe I'm making a big deal out of nothing here, but ultimately I would worry if someone like OP's daughter read your posts about how everything will be fine if you don't eat for a week or 2. They actually probably wouldn't and it could make underlying conditions much worse.

    At no point have I (or would I) recommend that someone do it through choice - I wouldn't even recommend fad diets to anyone looking to lose weight. The only thing I'd recommend would be a lifestyle change/a healthy balanced diet.
    Fair enough
    Last edited by stuartJo1989; 08-02-2018 at 2:48 PM.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 8th Feb 18, 2:59 PM
    • 2,288 Posts
    • 3,082 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    Hi, I'm a hospital dietitian. Just to cofirm, you CAN last for an extremely long time without eating anything . . . but you shouldn't attempt it.
    Originally posted by TeamPlum
    I thought it was 'the rule of 3' -

    3 minutes without air
    3 days without water
    3 weeks without food

    Not to be recommended, though !
    • peachyprice
    • By peachyprice 8th Feb 18, 3:25 PM
    • 19,091 Posts
    • 44,088 Thanks
    peachyprice
    I think the point about OCD which is being missed slightly is that it's not rational and people can't be reasoned out of it by presenting them with sensible arguments. Most people with OCD are fully aware that what they are doing is over the top and extremely damaging to themselves but the need for the ritual and combatting the repetitive intrusive thoughts can't easily be resisted due to the extreme anxiety that causes.
    I stand by my original post about the supermarket not having to make the adjustments the OP would like, but I'm fairly sure the OPs daughter knows already that what is being said about packaging etc is correct. What she needs is proper help to learn some coping mechanisms.to get back to a semblance of a normal life.
    Originally posted by elsien
    Well it seems like Sainsbury's have done the girl a favour then, as she can now shop at Asda too, that can only be a good thing that she now has two places to shop.

    It also confirms my suspicion that there has been more than a little enabling on the part of the OP.
    Accept your past without regret, handle your present with confidence and face your future without fear
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 12th Feb 18, 12:34 PM
    • 369 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    UN17ED
    Going to Asda, it would seem. Even though this was an impossibility and she could only eat food bought from Sainsbury's just 10 days ago
    Originally posted by peachyprice
    Who said it was 10 days ago? Because I certainly didn't so don't assume things, you think I'm lying that's your problem. I'd like to see how you would deal with the situation.

    It has taken a lot of hard work, upset and stress to get her to shop at Asda and the staff there are great and don't stare or laugh or make comments and actually go out of their way to help my daughter.
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 12th Feb 18, 12:36 PM
    • 369 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    UN17ED
    Well it seems like Sainsbury's have done the girl a favour then, as she can now shop at Asda too, that can only be a good thing that she now has two places to shop.

    It also confirms my suspicion that there has been more than a little enabling on the part of the OP.
    Originally posted by peachyprice
    Two places to shop? Again it is still stressful shopping but she goes.
    Again tell me how you would deal with the situation?
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 12th Feb 18, 12:40 PM
    • 369 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    UN17ED
    Yea, this is the point where you lost ALL sympathy from me.

    If you find the NHS and mental health support "appalling" then GO AND PAY FOR PRIVATE TREATMENT.
    Originally posted by stuartJo1989
    Do you watch the news or read any newspapers? The nhs is in crisis, plenty of horror stories of people suffering because of it and if memory serves there was a small little march in London recently with just the 100,000 people their.
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 12th Feb 18, 12:47 PM
    • 369 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    UN17ED
    You did not t specify members of staff.
    In a perfect world people would not t stare at ;odd!!!8221; behaviour but it i s a fact of life they do.
    Perhaps the staff have a mental health problem too.
    If you want a bespoke service you would need to shop at a small independent shop.
    Originally posted by hollydays
    Odd behaviour? Says who? It's odd because "normal" people like yourself say it is and I'm sorry my daughter's illness was to only shop at Sainsburys that has discriminated against my daighters illness,

    No she wants to go shopping and be treated with respect as every other customer does.
    Last edited by UN17ED; 12-02-2018 at 12:51 PM. Reason: spelling
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 12th Feb 18, 12:56 PM
    • 369 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    UN17ED
    a shop doesn't need a reason to ban someone, they can have who they like on their private property.
    did I seen your daugther wipes her items of food she picks up?
    then if she changes mind and puts them back on shelves they could be seen as being contaminated couldn't they?
    Your daughter is not the only person who shops there, maybe they have to chuck the stuff she picks up, wipes and puts back, in the bin?
    Originally posted by batg
    My daughter wipes the things she gets from Asda, it's just a coping mechanism for her and she doesn't put things back on the shelf as no one is around and we are left to do the shopping without any scrutiny by staff.

    She would only out items back on shelves in Sainsburys, not sprayed with anything or wiped with any wipes.
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 12th Feb 18, 1:05 PM
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    • 121 Thanks
    UN17ED
    Most folk would use a bit of common sense and cover up groceries bought elsewhere with a bag.Again, the odd behaviour is going to make some people come to the wrong conclusion about you. That is a fact.
    Originally posted by hollydays
    Define odd behaviour? What is "normal" behaviour?

    Why should I cover items in my basket which in large letters had the name of Morrisons on it, that is what my basket is for.

    It is a fact according to who? Where is this fact written down so I can read it? They have cctv and would be allowed to go through everything in my basket or my body just to prove them wrong.
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 12th Feb 18, 1:10 PM
    • 369 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    UN17ED
    Your lack of holding yourself and your daughter accountable at all seems to be a problem you haven!!!8217;t recognised.

    This is something you need to get help with yourself. It!!!8217;s not helping her, quite the opposite.
    Originally posted by hollydays
    What are we accountable for? My daughter has a severe, debilitating illness and cannot help that.

    I have tried exhaustively with every avenue possible and have been let down by them all with the tiny exception of the GP who we have to wait a month for an appointment.

    To you and the 26 who thanked you please tell me how you would deal with it realistically.
    Last edited by UN17ED; 12-02-2018 at 1:13 PM. Reason: added extra
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 12th Feb 18, 1:17 PM
    • 369 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    UN17ED
    Why does she have to go in every day? I do understand that this may be due to her OCD

    It would be easier if she could do a weekly shop. Then you could arrange a time with the manager. It is going to be harder for Sainsburys to be accommodating every day.

    If I am honest I can see both sides of this. I realise how difficult this is for you and your daughter. On the other hand I think you are being a bit unrealistic in your expectations of Sainsburys. I particularly agree with the comments about your daughter wiping the food and then putting it back on the shelves. That would put me off, as another customer, if I saw it.
    Originally posted by NeilCr
    Unrealistic expectations? Just to be able to go and shop without being gorked at or treated like someone with 3 heads?

    My apologies but she didn't wipe or spray any items that were in her trolley whilst we shopped at Sainsburys.
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