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  • FIRST POST
    • ammonite
    • By ammonite 23rd Jan 18, 7:29 AM
    • 1,416Posts
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    ammonite
    PayPal chargeback?
    • #1
    • 23rd Jan 18, 7:29 AM
    PayPal chargeback? 23rd Jan 18 at 7:29 AM
    I sold an item on eBay in October. Total cost including postage £11.24

    Just before new year I got a chargeback on PayPal for the team. As it had been so long I can't find proof of postage anywhere and I'm mad as I paid for signed for delivery too !!!55357;!!!56866; I can't find my receipt at all.

    PayPal have sided with the buyer as I can't find proof of
    Postage. I emailed conversations I had had with the buyer as they said they needed it by a certain date.


    I haven't heard anything via eBay just PayPal. I don't understand what is being disputed? If they hadn't received the item or if it wasn't hem who authorised the transaction surely they would raise a case in eBay?

    Furthermore PayPal have charged me another £14 and I don't know what for. Can anyone explain?

    I know it's my fault for not keeping the receipt safe but I'm so fed up with eBay PayPal and the fact they always side with the buyer. I feel like IVE been scammed !!!55357;!!!56866; Any advice or explanation of this I would be grateful. So cross !!!55357;!!!56866;
    Last edited by ammonite; 23-01-2018 at 7:37 AM.
Page 1
    • 19lottie82
    • By 19lottie82 23rd Jan 18, 8:21 AM
    • 5,748 Posts
    • 8,672 Thanks
    19lottie82
    • #2
    • 23rd Jan 18, 8:21 AM
    • #2
    • 23rd Jan 18, 8:21 AM
    The buyer will have claimed they didn’t authorise the transaction. You can’t raise this type of claim with eBay, only PayPal.

    As you didn’t refund off your own back, or provide proof of postage, PayPal have refunded the buyer on your behalf and charged you £14 for the privilege. I’ve heard people previously say if you phone PayPal and ask they will refund the £14 (not sure if this is true or not).

    I’ve had this happen to me before and it’s very frustrating- be glad it was only a small amount and use it as a lesson learned. From now on upload the reference number against the PayPal / ebay record straight after the item has been posted.
    • ammonite
    • By ammonite 23rd Jan 18, 8:29 AM
    • 1,416 Posts
    • 8,397 Thanks
    ammonite
    • #3
    • 23rd Jan 18, 8:29 AM
    • #3
    • 23rd Jan 18, 8:29 AM
    But they have no proof that they did or didn't authorise it? My proof of postage can't confirm that! !!!128557;
    Thanks for your response
    Is there somewhere on eBay to upload tracking numbers? I didn't know that!
    • jeffuk
    • By jeffuk 23rd Jan 18, 8:42 AM
    • 429 Posts
    • 263 Thanks
    jeffuk
    • #4
    • 23rd Jan 18, 8:42 AM
    • #4
    • 23rd Jan 18, 8:42 AM
    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ebay+upload+tracking+numbers&oq=eBay+to+u pload+tracking+number&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l3.3365j 0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
    • chancesare
    • By chancesare 23rd Jan 18, 8:55 AM
    • 1,717 Posts
    • 1,236 Thanks
    chancesare
    • #5
    • 23rd Jan 18, 8:55 AM
    • #5
    • 23rd Jan 18, 8:55 AM
    Chargebacks can be for INR or unauthorised use. It will tell you which it is.

    A Chargeback or Reversal was issued against you for the reason of an “Unauthorised Payment” (except for any “Unauthorised Payment” initiated in an environment not hosted by PayPal); or

    A Chargeback or Claim was issued against you for the reason of “Not Received”,

    The £14 charge is explained below. If you ring them and advise you were not aware of it, they may reverse it.

    The receipt of a payment into your PayPal Account does not equate to the receipt of cleared funds.

    A notification that E-money has been sent to you, does not amount to a receipt of E-money in your Account unless you have accepted the payment.

    You acknowledge and agree that a payment transaction is completed and received by you even if it becomes subject to a Reversal, Chargeback. Claim, Reserve or hold.

    When you receive a payment, you are liable to PayPal for the full amount of the payment plus any costs that we incur and any Fees if the payment is later invalidated for any reason.

    In addition to any other liability, if there is a Reversal, or if you lose a Chargeback or Claim and you are not entitled to a payment under the Seller Protection Programme, you will owe PayPal an amount equal to the Reversal, Chargeback or Claim and our Fees per Schedule 1 (including a Chargeback Fee if applicable) and PayPal will debit your Balance to recover such an amount.
    Did you add the tracking info to the eBay sale - if you did you may be able to retrieve it from there.

    If you can find it you will be covered.

    11.7 What are the delivery requirements?

    Protection for Unauthorised Payment
    For services and intangible items (in countries where such transactions are eligible for PayPal seller protection): Proof of Delivery
    For all other transactions: Proof of Postage (minimum) or Proof of Delivery

    Protection for Item Not Received
    Proof of Delivery



    • qsk
    • By qsk 23rd Jan 18, 9:36 AM
    • 255 Posts
    • 137 Thanks
    qsk
    • #6
    • 23rd Jan 18, 9:36 AM
    • #6
    • 23rd Jan 18, 9:36 AM
    Did you add the tracking info to the eBay sale - if you did you may be able to retrieve it from there.
    Originally posted by chancesare
    I don't think OP did. Last time I had a chargeback for unauthorised, Paypal emailed me saying that as I had added tracking info I did not need to do anything. So if you add tracking in eBay, Paypal would pick it up.
    • Pun
    • By Pun 23rd Jan 18, 10:23 AM
    • 635 Posts
    • 547 Thanks
    Pun
    • #7
    • 23rd Jan 18, 10:23 AM
    • #7
    • 23rd Jan 18, 10:23 AM
    I know it's my fault for not keeping the receipt safe but I'm so fed up with eBay PayPal and the fact they always side with the buyer. I feel like IVE been scammed !!!65533;!!!65533; Any advice or explanation of this I would be grateful. So cross !!!65533;!!!65533;
    Originally posted by ammonite
    I don't think many people would keep a proof of posting receipt for 3 months!

    That said, if there was a tracking number when you posted it, it is hardly ebay or Paypal's fault that you didn't add this to the listing at the time you posted. The option to do so is clearly shown on both the order page and on your homepage, and on the e-mail you get notifying you an item has been sold.
    https://pages.ebay.com/help/pay/upload-tracking.html
    • jeffuk
    • By jeffuk 23rd Jan 18, 11:32 AM
    • 429 Posts
    • 263 Thanks
    jeffuk
    • #8
    • 23rd Jan 18, 11:32 AM
    • #8
    • 23rd Jan 18, 11:32 AM
    I don't think many people would keep a proof of posting receipt for 3 months!
    https://pages.ebay.com/help/pay/upload-tracking.html
    Originally posted by Pun
    I do, and for exactly this reason.
    • BargainJunky
    • By BargainJunky 23rd Jan 18, 1:19 PM
    • 1,335 Posts
    • 846 Thanks
    BargainJunky
    • #9
    • 23rd Jan 18, 1:19 PM
    • #9
    • 23rd Jan 18, 1:19 PM
    I don't think many people would keep a proof of posting receipt for 3 months!

    That said, if there was a tracking number when you posted it, it is hardly ebay or Paypal's fault that you didn't add this to the listing at the time you posted. The option to do so is clearly shown on both the order page and on your homepage, and on the e-mail you get notifying you an item has been sold.
    https://pages.ebay.com/help/pay/upload-tracking.html
    Originally posted by Pun
    I also keep proof of posting receipts for ages and if I send tracked always enter the tracking number once sent.
    • soolin
    • By soolin 23rd Jan 18, 7:50 PM
    • 59,886 Posts
    • 42,516 Thanks
    soolin
    I don't think many people would keep a proof of posting receipt for 3 months!

    That said, if there was a tracking number when you posted it, it is hardly ebay or Paypal's fault that you didn't add this to the listing at the time you posted. The option to do so is clearly shown on both the order page and on your homepage, and on the e-mail you get notifying you an item has been sold.
    https://pages.ebay.com/help/pay/upload-tracking.html
    Originally posted by Pun
    I suspect that anyone who reads this forum keeps their POPs for the 6 months we recommend!
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
    New to Forum? Guide
    • Pun
    • By Pun 23rd Jan 18, 8:19 PM
    • 635 Posts
    • 547 Thanks
    Pun
    I think I'd sooner take the occasional loss rather than get so anal about it all!
    • chancesare
    • By chancesare 23rd Jan 18, 8:43 PM
    • 1,717 Posts
    • 1,236 Thanks
    chancesare
    I think I'd sooner take the occasional loss rather than get so anal about it all!
    Originally posted by Pun
    The occasional loss isn't so bad for some, the £14 charge can be a bigger pain. If you are a business then holding onto receipts is easy, for a private seller, it's a bulldog clip at the very most.
    • kangoora
    • By kangoora 23rd Jan 18, 9:19 PM
    • 522 Posts
    • 370 Thanks
    kangoora
    I bought one of those 12 slot divider storage boxes for a few quid and occasionally empty my wallet of proof of postages into one of the slots - different slot for each month. At the end of the year I throw them in a big envelope and mark it 'Postage 2017-18' (for example). Every few years I have a clear out and junk anything over 2 years old.

    I do the same for purchase receipts when I get them but keep them longer just in case HMRC ever get funny and want to audit me, 7 years I think for HMRC.

    Easy to do and doesn't take up much room especially when shoved in an envelope.
    • spinbald
    • By spinbald 13th Feb 18, 12:54 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    spinbald
    I have had a chargeback on my account. However for some reason all my paypal emails were ending up in my junk folder and i found out too late and was not able to respond on time to paypals requests regarding delivery and tracking of item. Is there anything i can do now.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 13th Feb 18, 7:18 AM
    • 11,907 Posts
    • 8,075 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    I have had a chargeback on my account. However for some reason all my paypal emails were ending up in my junk folder and i found out too late and was not able to respond on time to paypals requests regarding delivery and tracking of item. Is there anything i can do now.
    Originally posted by spinbald
    If you have lost the case you can try to appeal but in essence, the timelines are rigid.
    • spinbald
    • By spinbald 13th Feb 18, 1:12 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    spinbald
    Unfortunately i was not able to submit any details althoguh i do have the tracking information and receipt.. At the moment this is what paypal have said:
    The buyer reported that someone made the order without their permission. Until this case is closed, we've also placed a hold on the transaction amount.

    After reviewing the information we received, we were unable to cover the payment in this case. However, we might be able to recover this from the buyer's financial institution.

    Once we file a case on your behalf with the buyer's financial institution, it could take up to 75 days to get a resolution. If we're able to recover the payment of 114.99, we'll refund the money to your PayPal balance.
    Is there anything else i can do at the moment. I am not a regular seller and this has been very unexpected and i really don't know what to do .
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 13th Feb 18, 1:31 PM
    • 11,907 Posts
    • 8,075 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    Unfortunately i was not able to submit any details althoguh i do have the tracking information and receipt.. At the moment this is what paypal have said:
    The buyer reported that someone made the order without their permission. Until this case is closed, we've also placed a hold on the transaction amount.

    After reviewing the information we received, we were unable to cover the payment in this case. However, we might be able to recover this from the buyer's financial institution.

    Once we file a case on your behalf with the buyer's financial institution, it could take up to 75 days to get a resolution. If we're able to recover the payment of 114.99, we'll refund the money to your PayPal balance.
    Is there anything else i can do at the moment. I am not a regular seller and this has been very unexpected and i really don't know what to do .
    Originally posted by spinbald
    You need the certificate of posting and or proof of delivery to defend it and get the full monies protected. If you say you have it, then you need to get it uploaded to the case and ask Paypal to invoke seller protection. You may need to ring them to get this added.
    • spinbald
    • By spinbald 13th Feb 18, 1:51 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    spinbald
    I used Collect+ via the parcel2go website and the tracking info is there. Would that be ok?
    I will give them a ring and see what they say. Though i'm a bit nervous on the phone
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 13th Feb 18, 2:02 PM
    • 11,907 Posts
    • 8,075 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    I used Collect+ via the parcel2go website and the tracking info is there. Would that be ok?
    I will give them a ring and see what they say. Though i'm a bit nervous on the phone
    Originally posted by spinbald
    From what you say your chargeback is for unauthorised use.

    Section 11.7 of seller protection for unauthorised use says you need:

    For services and intangible items (in countries where such transactions are eligible for PayPal seller protection): Proof of Delivery

    For all other transactions: Proof of Postage (minimum) or Proof of Delivery
    Does the tracking show as delivered?

    Have you added the tracking information to the Paypal transaction and to the case?

    There is no need to be nervous when ringing them, they are very helpful. If you don't sort it out you WILL lose your money.
    • spinbald
    • By spinbald 13th Feb 18, 11:38 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    spinbald
    From what you say your chargeback is for unauthorised use.

    Section 11.7 of seller protection for unauthorised use says you need:



    Does the tracking show as delivered?

    Have you added the tracking information to the Paypal transaction and to the case?

    There is no need to be nervous when ringing them, they are very helpful. If you don't sort it out you WILL lose your money.
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    The tracking does show as delivered.
    I have not added the tracking information to paypal or to the case as the time to do so has elapsed and there is no option to add this now.
    If i had seen my emails earlier then i would have done so but because they all somehow ended up in my junk folder , i had no knowledge of them. It was only upon randomly checking my Paypal account i realised what had happened.
    I will ring them and hope this gets sorted.
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