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  • FIRST POST
    • sssylaru
    • By sssylaru 19th Jan 18, 10:33 AM
    • 6Posts
    • 1Thanks
    sssylaru
    MET Parking services at McDonalds Fine for rental car
    • #1
    • 19th Jan 18, 10:33 AM
    MET Parking services at McDonalds Fine for rental car 19th Jan 18 at 10:33 AM
    Hello,

    I have quick question.
    I was renting a car in december and on my way to work there was gigantic traffic jam. 300m from my company I've deicided to leave my car on McDonalds car park and run to work to be on time (we have fines for being late). 18:28 I've left my car on car park and around 18;40 I've called McDonalds from company to let them know that I will pick up my car after midnight (during my break time) - they said it's fine
    .
    According to MET Parking charge notice car was there for 370minutes (photos are attached).
    I've received email from my Car rental company:

    ''We have been contacted by an issuing body advising us of a traffic violation that occurred during the period of your recent vehicle hire with us. Please see attached photocopy of the notice for details.

    We have paid the notice on your behalf and enclose our invoice for the payment together with our administration fee. This is due for payment within the next 14 days. Unless you contact us and give us a legitimate reason why the payment should not have been made then the full value of the invoice will be deducted from your credit or debit card (whichever applies) on the 15th day following the date of this letter.

    If you do provide us with legitimate reasons as to why we should not have paid the penalty then we will put this to the issuing authority.
    If the issuing authority refuses your appeal then we will confirm this to you and deduct the monies from your credit or debit card (whichever applies);
    If the issuing authority allows your appeal then we will cancel the invoice in full. In these circumstances no monies will be taken from your credit or debit card (whichever applies).
    If you wish to make an appeal relating to the notice please contact our Customer Services department email to customerservicesir@interrent.com. Please be sure to include any relevant documentation in support of your appeal.''

    Interrent added £50 for my bill so in total is £100 which is a lot!
    Is there anything I could do to not pay that fine?
    With regards!
Page 1
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 19th Jan 18, 10:46 AM
    • 34,497 Posts
    • 18,464 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #2
    • 19th Jan 18, 10:46 AM
    • #2
    • 19th Jan 18, 10:46 AM
    You haven't been fined or commited a traffic violation!

    You need to write to the car rental company pointing this out!!

    The car rental company should not have paid this, and cannot get it back from you!
    Last edited by Quentin; 19-01-2018 at 10:51 AM.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 19th Jan 18, 10:55 AM
    • 8,110 Posts
    • 7,403 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #3
    • 19th Jan 18, 10:55 AM
    • #3
    • 19th Jan 18, 10:55 AM
    They have, by paying this, denied you your legal right to appeal it. They may also have offended against their Trade Association's Code of Practice.

    https://www.bvrla.co.uk/

    they seem to have done everything possible wrongly.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 19th Jan 18, 1:44 PM
    • 10,280 Posts
    • 9,444 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    • #4
    • 19th Jan 18, 1:44 PM
    • #4
    • 19th Jan 18, 1:44 PM
    "If you do provide us with legitimate reasons as to why we should not have paid the penalty then we will put this to the issuing authority. "

    You need to challenge that MET are not an issuing authority and that is a disputed invoice and that the landholder gave you verbal permission.

    And you need to refer to your hire/lease document to see the bits where they can pay genuine fines and back charge you but there will almost be no reference to them having any right to do the same for PPCs.
    • Kirchenmaus
    • By Kirchenmaus 19th Jan 18, 2:45 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    Kirchenmaus
    • #5
    • 19th Jan 18, 2:45 PM
    • #5
    • 19th Jan 18, 2:45 PM
    "We have paid the notice on your behalf..."
    Originally posted by sssylaru
    If this is true, the rest of it makes no sense--regardless of which kind of ticket it was--because once it is paid, no appeal, challenge or anything else is possible.

    Find out two things:

    1. Did they actually pay it already?
    2. What does your hire contract say, exactly, regarding their authority to charge you following the conclusion of the rental period?

    --Kirchenmaus
    • sssylaru
    • By sssylaru 25th Jan 18, 12:56 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    sssylaru
    • #6
    • 25th Jan 18, 12:56 PM
    • #6
    • 25th Jan 18, 12:56 PM
    Sorry for delay in replying but I was in hospital.

    First of all thank you so much for replies!
    I don't know have they paid this fine or not - I assume yes because in email they've stated: ''We have paid the notice on your behalf''

    Well, according to interrent.com/gb/rental_tco?country=TR#en it doesn't say much about that.

    What should I write to them in email? Something like:

    Hello,

    I haven't commit any traffic violation. As company you shouldn't paid this ''fine'' as automatically you have denied my legal right to appeal it.
    MET is not an issuing authority and that is disputed invoice and that the landholder gave me verbal permission to keep my car there for longer than 90minutes (I was late to work and road was jammed so I had to leave my car there. Few minutes later I've called McDonalds, explained the situation and got verbal permission for keeping my car longer.

    With regards


    Send it like that?
    • sssylaru
    • By sssylaru 26th Jan 18, 1:25 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    sssylaru
    • #7
    • 26th Jan 18, 1:25 PM
    • #7
    • 26th Jan 18, 1:25 PM
    What do you think ? Should I add anything to this email?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 27th Jan 18, 12:08 AM
    • 53,942 Posts
    • 67,613 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 27th Jan 18, 12:08 AM
    • #8
    • 27th Jan 18, 12:08 AM
    Needs to be MUCH stronger, like this:


    I am writing to raise a formal complaint and dispute regarding the letter which informed me I incurred a parking charge and that (for no lawful reason whatsoever) you have just paid it, despite this not being a penalty, and not from any authority. Do you always pay invoices without question, or was this staff error? Either way, you can't expect me to reimburse you for your error.

    This was a private PCN, an invoice (not a fine or penalty) and it was never your liability to pay 'on my behalf'. You have failed to comply with the process set out by the BVRLA and in the BPA/BVRLA 'Memorandum of Understanding', signed in 2013, following the change in the law within the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (the POFA).

    Why did you not discharge potential liability by providing the necessary details of lessee/hirer, in accordance with paragraph 13/14 of the POFA, schedule 4? By not doing this you prevented me from appealing against this private PCN, something that I would have found easy to win at POPLA stage.

    You have denied me that opportunity and disregarded clear BVRLA instructions, as well as the POFA paragraph 13/14.

    Why did you not simply name me as the lessee/hirer, as per the POFA, giving my address and in one simple letter, thereby discharging any liability your company might have been concerned about? You would then have been removed from the issue and I could have appealed - a win-win situation.

    You had no business in paying this 'on my behalf' and in fact you did not, you paid it of your own volition. Your mistake, not at my cost. Where in Terms Conditions of lease/hire, do you contend that you can wrongly and blindly apply the 'local authority' PCN procedure (panicking and paying a PCN that is from no such authority, then demanding money from me as reimbursement)?

    I wish to escalate the matter using the ADR/dispute resolution provided by the BVRLA, and I require the name of the overseeing solicitor from your Legal Department, responsible for this matter. As the sum is certainly in dispute you must not charge my card. If you do, I will ask my card provider to bounce the payment immediately and will place it in formal dispute as an unauthorised debit.

    I look forward to hearing from you within seven days and please do check the POFA before you attempt to spout it back to me.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 27-01-2018 at 12:15 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • sssylaru
    • By sssylaru 5th Feb 18, 4:18 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    sssylaru
    • #9
    • 5th Feb 18, 4:18 PM
    • #9
    • 5th Feb 18, 4:18 PM
    That was strong!
    I've passed that to Interrent and received reply:

    ''Good afternoon,
    Thank you for contacting InterRent customer services.

    Having reviewed your query, I can confirm the following; If a driver has incurred a parking charge notice from a private parking enforcement firm, and the vehicle is owned by a hire company, the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 allows the fine issuer to request the hirer details from the registered keeper of the vehicle. If the request is not acted upon, the issuer is legally allowed to pursue the matter through the courts. Given this change in the law, and the stance of the BVRLA (the vehicle rental sector's governing body), Interrent must therefore treat fines issued by private operators in the same way as those issued by councils; they must either pay the fines, or provide the details of the hirer, and if the latter course of action is taken, a valid, signed hire agreement must be supplied.

    There is a commonly held belief that private parking enforcement firms do not have the power to enforce their charges, and this belief is strengthened by the fact that they often will not pursue individual drivers through the courts. However, as a large fleet operator, Interrent is more likely to be taken to court over unpaid parking charge notices, and must therefore ensure that the correct process is followed at all times.

    The British Parking Association and Independent Parking Committee are the governing bodies of private parking enforcement firms, and it is only by being members of one of these that they are able to request owner/keeper details from the DVLA. This means that they risk suspension if they do not follow the prescribed code of conduct, which would prevent them from requesting details from the DVLA. They are therefore incentivised to act fairly and within the code, as complaints to the BPA and IPC can threaten their membership.

    By way of explanation we confirm that, as registered keeper of the vehicle, InterRent is sent any fine notifications from issuing authorities. Once such notifications are received, depending on the nature of the offence, InterRent will either pay the fine so as to mitigate the cost of it or will transfer liability to the hirer so that the issuing authority can deal with the hirer directly. It is always our preference to transfer liability to the hirer if at all possible, however, this is not always the case.

    · If the fine is transferable then we will notify the issuing authority of the hirer's details who will then deal directly with that hirer. In these circumstances we will charge the hirer an administration fee which, wherever possible, is sent under separate cover via email. The hirer is then allowed 14 days in which to challenge the validity of the administration fee.

    · If the fine is not transferable then we will pay the fine in order to mitigate the cost and will notify the hirer of our actions. This notification will include an invoice detailing the cost of the fine together with InterRent's administration fee and it will confirm that the hirer has 14 days in which to appeal both of the charges. If no appeal is received within the 14 days then we take payment from the credit card that was supplied to us at the time the hirer collected the vehicle.

    In view of the above and in line with our terms and conditions of hire, the charges have been applied correctly.

    I apologise for any inconvenience caused.
    Regards''

    What should I do right now?
    • kryten3000
    • By kryten3000 5th Feb 18, 7:32 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 41 Thanks
    kryten3000
    What exactly did your hire agreement say about the subject? BVRLA guidance says that to pay and recharge, something like the following wording should be present in the hire agreement (bold added for emphasis):

    You will be responsible for paying the following charges:
    All charges and legal costs for any congestion charge, road traffic offence parking offence or parking notice, or any other offence involving the rental vehicle, including from the vehicle being clamped, seized or towed away.
    .
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 5th Feb 18, 7:48 PM
    • 8,110 Posts
    • 7,403 Thanks
    The Deep
    Mat are known to us as persistent scammers, exactly the type of firm that parliament are trying to put out of business. Complain to your MP after watching this.


    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Feb 18, 9:28 PM
    • 53,942 Posts
    • 67,613 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Dear InterRent,

    Having reviewed your letter, I can confirm the following:

    You say:
    If a driver has incurred a parking charge notice from a private parking enforcement firm, and the vehicle is owned by a hire company, the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 allows the fine issuer to request the hirer details from the registered keeper of the vehicle.
    Yes it does, but only in circumstances where the parking firm has complied with the POFA (in fact, many don't use that Act and can never hold Interrent liable, only a driver). Either way, why did Interrent not simply supply my details, thereby discharging any potential liability you may have had, with one letter?

    Given this change in the law, and the stance of the BVRLA (the vehicle rental sector's governing body),
    The stance of the BVRLA was confirmed in a Memorandum of Understanding with the BPA, a year after the POFA was enacted. Their clear, agreed stance was that BVRLA members were to simply respond to letters from BPA member firms, giving the name and address of the hirer/lessee, and as such, any potential liability would be discharged very easily by hire firms.

    InterRent must therefore treat fines issued by private operators in the same way as those issued by councils;
    Not true. The Memorandum of Understanding was clear, and in any case not all private PCNs are POFA versions, and those operators have no way to hold Interrent liable. Those that do use the POFA, also ask for the name and address of the hirer, so Interrent has no excuse for not doing so.

    they must either pay the fines, or provide the details of the hirer, and if the latter course of action is taken, a valid, signed hire agreement must be supplied.
    Not true, and these are not 'fines'! The complete opposite was agreed between the BPA and BVRLA in the 2013 Memorandum of Understanding, which exempted BVRLA members from having to supply a copy of the Hire Agreement. I suggest you read a copy. The BVRLA will have it, as they signed it.

    However, as a large fleet operator, Interrent is more likely to be taken to court over unpaid parking charge notices
    MET Parking do not do court (ever); one search tells you this:

    http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/MET_Parking_Services.html

    and must therefore ensure that the correct process is followed at all times.
    Do so then, please. Apologise for your error and refund the money you panicked and paid, under no lawful excuse and without my authority. All I ask is that you follow the correct process, which would have been to have given the operator my details (name and address, no need for a copy of the Hire Agreement if difficult to supply, as stated in the 2013 Memorandum of Understanding).

    The British Parking Association and Independent Parking Committee are the governing bodies of private parking enforcement firms
    Not correct; I think you are using an old template letter.

    Look up the 'Independent Parking Committee' because they are no such thing:

    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10507363/officers

    InterRent is sent any fine notifications from issuing authorities.
    MET Parking is not an 'issuing authority' and this was not a 'fine'. MET is a private firm who do not always comply with the POFA, and never sue anyone. You could have easily transferred your potential liability with one letter and this opportunity would certainly have been afforded by the Notice to Keeper.

    Once such notifications are received, depending on the nature of the offence,
    Parking charges are private contractual matters, not 'offences'.
    InterRent will either pay the fine so as to mitigate the cost of it
    Again, this was never a 'fine' and was not yours to decide to pay. I would have mitigated the entire cost, had you given me the opportunity to appeal to POPLA and win. These charges are easily appealed by hirers, and winnable (if an appellant knows what to say, as I do) every time at POPLA on that basis, and the charge would have been cancelled. InterRent did not do me any favours; you failed to mitigate any loss.

    or will transfer liability to the hirer so that the issuing authority can deal with the hirer directly. It is always our preference to transfer liability to the hirer if at all possible, however, this is not always the case.
    Right, explain why you didn't? MET Notice to Keeper letters include the option for hire firms to name the hirer. Why didn't you?

    I note that InterRent also failed to explain to me your complaints procedure, or confirm the next steps for me to take this complaint to the BVRLA, who I am aware operate an ADR.

    By not offering me an ADR, you are now breaking the law. I had to look up the facts on the BVRLA website to find that you should have been telling me:

    ''From 1 October 2015 all businesses which cannot resolve a complaint with a customer, and who have exhausted their own internal complaints-handling process, will be legally required to give the consumer details of an approved ADR provider.''


    https://www.bvrla.co.uk/advice/consumer-advice

    Kindly explain the reasons for your company's failure to use the transfer of liability option in the MET Notice to Keeper, and your failure to offer me an applicable ADR.

    kind regards,
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 06-02-2018 at 1:04 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 6th Feb 18, 6:36 AM
    • 8,110 Posts
    • 7,403 Thanks
    The Deep
    Excellent letter CM, the epitome of reason, but not for me. I would have sent them an LBA.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • sssylaru
    • By sssylaru 16th Feb 18, 12:36 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    sssylaru
    Reply
    Hey, they have replied: Good morning

    Thank you for your further correspondence to InterRent customer services.

    Inline with our terms and conditions of hire, InterRent have followed the correct procedures in relation to your fine notification. It is also advised within our terms and conditions of hire that should you wish to escalate any complaints we are a member of the BVRLA and you have the option to take your dispute up with the BVRLA should you not be satisfied with our resolution. Ultimately, it is up to the hirer of the vehicle and who signed the Rental Agreement to be aware of our terms and conditions that is agreed to upon commencement of hire. I have attached a copy of your rental agreement for your reference.

    The charges remain correct and should you wish to escalate your complaint, you are well within your rights to contact the BVRLA direct.

    I apologise for any inconvenience caused.

    Regards


    and attached picture of my agreement I've signed: imgur.com/a/oEQ4M

    What do you think?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 16th Feb 18, 12:42 AM
    • 34,497 Posts
    • 18,464 Thanks
    Quentin

    What do you think?
    Originally posted by sssylaru
    Don't think you were fined were you,??

    Escalate as they have invited you to do,!
    Last edited by Quentin; 16-02-2018 at 12:46 AM.
    • The Slithy Tove
    • By The Slithy Tove 16th Feb 18, 7:18 AM
    • 3,248 Posts
    • 4,720 Thanks
    The Slithy Tove
    and attached picture of my agreement I've signed: https://imgur.com/a/oEQ4M

    What do you think?
    Originally posted by sssylaru
    That image is useless as it doesn't tell us anything. You have been asked more than one to post up the exact terms and conditions that went with the agreement. This will help us to torpedo them good and proper.

    They still seem to be under the impression this is a fine, when it is not.
    • StaffsSW
    • By StaffsSW 16th Feb 18, 10:44 AM
    • 5,426 Posts
    • 5,511 Thanks
    StaffsSW
    That image is useless as it doesn't tell us anything. You have been asked more than one to post up the exact terms and conditions that went with the agreement. This will help us to torpedo them good and proper.

    They still seem to be under the impression this is a fine, when it is not.
    Originally posted by The Slithy Tove
    Interrent is a trading brand of EuropCar, one of the bigger names in rental, and their T&Cs in relation to Fines & Penalties is here - section 9.2.1 - https://www.interrent.com/rental_tco?country=GB

    I personally don't agree with their stance, but it is part of the reason why the PPC industry see hire and leasing companies as a soft target for payment.

    (And it's not part of my companies fleet either!)

    In regards to the terminology though, "Fine" is used generically within the industry to cover all PCNs, toll charges, parking charges, impound fees etc.
    <--- Nothing to see here - move along --->
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 16th Feb 18, 11:00 AM
    • 34,497 Posts
    • 18,464 Thanks
    Quentin

    In regards to the terminology though, "Fine" is used generically within the industry to cover all PCNs, toll charges, parking charges, impound fees etc.
    Originally posted by StaffsSW
    They cannot use "industry" jargon when relying on ts + cs in a contract with a customer!
    • StaffsSW
    • By StaffsSW 16th Feb 18, 11:17 AM
    • 5,426 Posts
    • 5,511 Thanks
    StaffsSW
    They cannot use "industry" jargon when relying on ts + cs in a contract with a customer!
    Originally posted by Quentin
    I agree, but the specific InterRent T&Cs relating to "fines" is described as thus

    You are responsible for and will pay all charges arising from:
    any congestion or parking charges or failure to pay them;
    a breach of any parking restrictions or a road traffic offence or any other offence or infringement involving the Vehicle such as (but not limited to) lane infringement; tunnel, turning and bus lane charges including the costs from the Vehicle being clamped, seized or towed away; and any other charges/costs (or failure to pay them) levied by a relevant organisation or issuing authority;


    Many operators in the industry have had to change the specific T&Cs to clarify the types charges/fines/tolls etc, in order to reduce the disputes, not only from consumers, but the PPC have also been pushing back claiming that the standard liability statement was insufficient to transfer charges to the driver.

    We both know it's BS on their part, but we/the BVRLA/rental industry decided it was easier to reword the statement in late 2016 than deal with the legal pedantry.

    Not all Rental operators are the same though, a growing number of us do know right from wrong - http://www.ododrive.com/nexus-backs-private-car-parking-bill/
    Last edited by StaffsSW; 16-02-2018 at 1:08 PM.
    <--- Nothing to see here - move along --->
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Feb 18, 3:15 PM
    • 53,942 Posts
    • 67,613 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Ah, but InterRent shot themselves in the foot with an unequivocal letter to the OP:

    · If the fine is transferable then we will notify the issuing authority of the hirer's details who will then deal directly with that hirer. In these circumstances we will charge the hirer an administration fee which, wherever possible, is sent under separate cover via email. The hirer is then allowed 14 days in which to challenge the validity of the administration fee.

    · If the fine is not transferable then we will pay the fine
    There is nothing whatsoever to excuse them choosing 'Plan B' this time, because these ARE transferable, we all know that MET NTKs have a transfer of liability wording or box on them.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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