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  • FIRST POST
    • Paul-T951
    • By Paul-T951 16th Jan 18, 8:44 PM
    • 10Posts
    • 9Thanks
    Paul-T951
    What to do next?
    • #1
    • 16th Jan 18, 8:44 PM
    What to do next? 16th Jan 18 at 8:44 PM
    Hi, I’ve read the newbies thread but am not sure what to do next. A PCN was stuck to my partner’s car window in a hospital car park but was ignored until recently when a NTK was received. The NTK was received 96 days after the NTD - far longer than the required 56 days. We responded with the following e-mail:

    As registered keeper I wish to appeal this PCN. The notice to keeper arrived 96 days after the alleged event. The alleged event was documented as taking place on 05/10/17. The Notice to keeper was dated 04/01/18 and was received on 08/01/18. As members of the BPA you comply with POFA 12 which requires that if you wish to hold the keeper liable the notice must be served not earlier than 28 days after, and not later than 56 days after the service of that notice to driver. Therefore as keeper I am not liable for this charge. In addition, POFA states that the period the car was parked must be present in the notice to keeper, which was not included in this instance.

    For these reasons I must demand that this notice be cancelled.

    Yours faithfully


    The following note has now been received back:

    Good afternoon

    Thank you for your recent online submission.

    On this occasion, our client is not relying on the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 to pursue this Parking Charge Notice. If you were not the driver of the vehicle at the the time of the event, Please provide the full name and address of the driver so that liability can be transferred.

    The account has been placed on hold for 14 days for your response.

    Yours sincerely


    What is the next course of action please? Hoping someone can help and apologies if I’ve missed something in the newbies thread.

    Many thanks,

    Paul
Page 2
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 9th Feb 18, 1:02 PM
    • 8,127 Posts
    • 7,413 Thanks
    The Deep
    Parliament are introducing a bill to stop these customers scamming people in hospital car parks, watch this

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and add to the fun by complaining in the strongest terms to your MP.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Paul-T951
    • By Paul-T951 11th Feb 18, 10:08 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Paul-T951
    Thanks for the advice, here is my proposed response, do you see any issues? Thanks in advance.


    Dear Sir/Madam,

    Re PCN number:

    I am the keeper of the vehicle which received this purported 'parking charge'. There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. I am not liable for this PCN as the notice to keeper was received in excess of 56 days after the NTD was supposedly issued, in contravention of BPA code of practice, as clearly stated in previous correspondence. Under what grounds are you pursuing the keeper when the case is non POFA? I would also like to know under what lawful grounds you obtained my details from the DVLA, considering it is likely this request was made outside the 56 day time period.

    Should you fail to cancel this PCN immediately, I require the following information with your template rejection:

    1. Does your charge represent damages for breach of contract? Answer yes or no.
    2. Please provide dated photos of the signs that you say were on site, which you contend formed a contract.
    3. Please provide all photographs taken of this vehicle.

    I am alarmed by your contact and I do not give you consent to process any data relating to me, or this vehicle. I deny liability and will not respond to debt collectors. You must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA, and should you fail to respond accordingly, your company will be reported to the Information Commissioner.


    I would also like to draw your attention to the recent Hansard reading in the House of Commons, 2nd Feb 2018:

    "Poor signage, unreasonable terms, exorbitant fines, aggressive demands for payment and an opaque appeals process, together with some motorists being hit with a fine for just driving in and out of a car park without stopping, have no place in 21st-century Britain."

    Finally, it is my understanding that debt recovery cannot be started whilst an appeal is in progress; therefore Leeds Teaching Hospitals are in breach of the code of practice (section 22.6).


    I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and will also be making a formal complaint to your client landowner.

    As a current BPA member, send me a POPLA code.

    Yours faithfully,

    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Feb 18, 10:13 PM
    • 53,942 Posts
    • 67,624 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You could add:

    ZZPS are warned that if you wilfully withhold a POPLA code on the spurious basis that my wording above is a template, and somehow 'not an appeal' in your sad little World of money-making from consumer victims, you will once again be reported to Steve Clark at the BPA.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • logician
    • By logician 11th Feb 18, 10:30 PM
    • 194 Posts
    • 76 Thanks
    logician
    PCN Admin Centre is just a trading name of ZZPS Ltd; so your PCN hasn't passed to ZZPS.

    More importantly, debt recovery cannot be started whilst an appeal is in progress; therefore LTH are in breach of the Code of practice, (22.6 of the Code).
    Originally posted by Castle
    PCN Admin /ZZPS operate many back room functions for AOS members of the BPA and IPC.

    Technically speaking, they issued the Ntk and handled the appeal, therefore continuing to process this, adding on extra charges, it is ZZPS who are in breach of the COP.

    @ the OP - did the Ntk also include an Admin Fee, this is typical of PCN Admin Ntk's

    Write to ZZPS - pointing out that there is no legal requirement to name the driver and that the Ntk arrived out of time to comply with the requirements of keeper liability.

    Add that if they do not cancel the charge, you will make a formal complaint to the BPA and the DVLA for failing to provide a POPLA code after a valid appeal.
    • Paul-T951
    • By Paul-T951 13th Feb 18, 11:50 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Paul-T951
    Next Update:

    So I've received this e-mail:

    Good Morning,

    Thank you for your email.


    We refer your email dated 11/02/2018, which we are treating as a formal section 10 Notice (“the Notice”) under the Data Protection Act (“the Act”).

    Please accept this email as our formal acknowledgement and response to the Notice.

    You have provided no justification for the Notice. The processing of your data is warranted.


    In any event, section 10(1) of the Act does not apply in circumstances where Schedule 2, paragraphs 1 to 4 of the Act are met, accordingly we are permitted to continue to process your data at this stage.


    If this is not clear, we suggest you seek legal advice.



    Please note the time to appeal this Parking Charge Notice has passed and as such no POPLA code will be issued.


    We have previously responded to your online submission made on the 13/01/2018.


    Regards

    Help! What should be the next step?

    Thank you
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Feb 18, 11:56 AM
    • 40,938 Posts
    • 81,719 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Do you have a PoPLA code yet? If not, complain to the BPA and your MP. Access to alternative dispute resolution is yours by right, as decreed in the ADR Act 2015.

    These are some of the comments made by the MPs in Parliament concerning the unregulated parking industry (Feb 2018):

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

    ''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

    These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to your MP in a complaint and ask him/her to contact Sir Greg Knight MP if he wants further information about this scam.

    Quote the bit in bold to the BPA and ask what they intend to do about this rogue parking company, and rogue debt collector, to change the attitude of MPs and the motoring public.

    You should also point out the above comments to the hospital management and PALS.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 13-02-2018 at 11:58 AM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Feb 18, 12:05 PM
    • 53,942 Posts
    • 67,624 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Please note the time to appeal this Parking Charge Notice has passed and as such no POPLA code will be issued.
    I did tell you!

    You could add:

    ZZPS are warned that if you wilfully withhold a POPLA code on the spurious basis that my wording above is a template, and somehow 'not an appeal' in your sad little World of money-making from consumer victims, you will once again be reported to Steve Clark at the BPA.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad

    Steve.c@britishparking.co.uk

    ZZPS need banning, IMHO. Unfit to be handling appeals, from the cases we see here.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Paul-T951
    • By Paul-T951 13th Feb 18, 12:14 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Paul-T951
    Thanks, I'll go ahead and e-mail Steve - I did put that sentance (minus the 'sad little money-making' bit!) in my response. I assume from your responses that I shouldn't reply to ZZPS now, but take this to the BPA and LTH?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Feb 18, 12:16 PM
    • 53,942 Posts
    • 67,624 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Take it to the BPA. Failure to provide a keeper with a POPLA code, ZZPS yet AGAIN pretending that a keeper appealing to a NTK is appealing ''too late'' (these are repeated lies from scumbags who drag the BPA further down into the mire).

    Show Steve a link to this thread, I make no apology for the 'sad little money-making' factual sentence.

    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Castle
    • By Castle 13th Feb 18, 12:24 PM
    • 1,486 Posts
    • 1,966 Thanks
    Castle
    PCN Admin /ZZPS operate many back room functions for AOS members of the BPA and IPC.

    Technically speaking, they issued the Ntk and handled the appeal, therefore continuing to process this, adding on extra charges, it is ZZPS who are in breach of the COP.
    Originally posted by logician
    Technically, it's LTH who are the PPC in this matter; so they are responsible for any breaches by their agents/subcontractors. (Section 15 of the BPA code).
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