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  • FIRST POST
    • everest95
    • By everest95 13th Jan 18, 11:23 PM
    • 3Posts
    • 0Thanks
    everest95
    Gladstone - Claim Form Received
    • #1
    • 13th Jan 18, 11:23 PM
    Gladstone - Claim Form Received 13th Jan 18 at 11:23 PM
    Although a new member, I have been reading this forum ever since we received LBC from Gladstone. And though not starting own thread for LBC, I read the newbie thread and other threads and have been responding to Gladstone LBC.

    Now we have received the Claim Form.

    A brief summary :

    * Received "Postal Notification of Parking Charge" in early June from PCM. Cost £100 (£60 if paid within 14 days). Photos taken of vehicle.
    * Being this a first time, googled about PCN and ended up following old advice of ignoring the letter
    * Two demand letters from Trace Debt Recovery
    * Letter before claim - Gladstone - towards end of September - £160
    * After receiving LBC, did research about LBC and found this forum and began reading newbie thread and other similar threads
    * Sent a reply to Gladstones about the new pre-action protocol (as in Daniel san's thread from October 2017 - link on newbie thread, post 2, regarding new PAP)
    * Reply from Gladstone received saying the new pre-action protocol applies only to LBC issued after 1 October and to pay up within 14 days
    * Replied back to Gladstone that the new PAP still applies as they have not issued claim yet, and even if it did, they still need to follow the previous PAP anyway
    * Claim Form - received 11/01/18

    The driver had parked in a retail park, with intention of going into the store. However, the driver was not aware that the store opened late that day. So left the car parked there and took a walk to nearby area while waiting for the store to open, assuming it would be opening soon. However left the place after realising the store was opening late that day and would have to wait more than an hour.

    When the first parking charge letter was received, went back and checked the signage - there are signs, on the top of the walls of the parking lot, notifying parking is only for patrons and only during store opening hours. However they were high up on the wall and not noticed at the time of parking.

    Do we have a case ? I am now reading through the newbie section and other threads regarding Claim Form and am rather daunted by the process involved.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
    Last edited by everest95; 15-01-2018 at 2:37 PM. Reason: Corrections
Page 1
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 13th Jan 18, 11:28 PM
    • 34,187 Posts
    • 18,130 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #2
    • 13th Jan 18, 11:28 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Jan 18, 11:28 PM
    From the reading you have done here you will have seen never to reveal who was driving


    You need to edit your post to remove details of who was driving (assuming up to now you haven't done so already in your correspondence with the ppc/Gladstone)


    The ppcs monitor here and can use your posts against you


    Put your draft defence up here for comments (see #2 in the FAQ for the process to follow after getting a claim - first do the AOS to buy an extra 14 days for your defence)
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Jan 18, 11:32 PM
    • 52,924 Posts
    • 66,467 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 13th Jan 18, 11:32 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Jan 18, 11:32 PM
    Do we have a case ?
    Did you know we win 99% of defended cases, when posters follow our advice throughout, from claim to hearing? Of course you have a case, just like the hundreds of winners in 2017!

    I am now reading through the newbie section and other threads regarding Claim Form and am rather daunted by the process involved.
    AOS is easy, copy what the link tells you to put in each page.

    Then defence is a matter of adapting a recent one someone's already posted - pretty easy. And we will comment.

    Then Gladstones letter comes, pretending the case should be 'heard on the papers' but you will be ahead of that little game once you've read other Gladstones claim cases. Knowledge is power. Then later, people win or the case is discontinued.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • everest95
    • By everest95 13th Jan 18, 11:46 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    everest95
    • #4
    • 13th Jan 18, 11:46 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Jan 18, 11:46 PM
    Thank you Quentin, I don't think I have revealed who was driving (either on the letters to Gladstone or on the post above)
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 13th Jan 18, 11:52 PM
    • 34,187 Posts
    • 18,130 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #5
    • 13th Jan 18, 11:52 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Jan 18, 11:52 PM
    Only you know what you put in your correspondence


    You do need to edit your OP though to remove details of who was driving.


    Refer only to "the driver" doing any parking in an area reserved etc
    Last edited by Quentin; 14-01-2018 at 8:56 AM.
    • bargepole
    • By bargepole 14th Jan 18, 12:00 AM
    • 2,197 Posts
    • 6,352 Thanks
    bargepole
    • #6
    • 14th Jan 18, 12:00 AM
    • #6
    • 14th Jan 18, 12:00 AM
    I am helping researching and drafting letters on behalf of the keeper.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
    Originally posted by everest95
    The main Defence argument is very straightforward. This is a simple matter of contract.

    For any contract, or contractual license, to exist, there must be something of value offered to the offeree.

    The signage does not make any offer of a parking facility outside store opening hours. If the sign said 'You may park here when the store is closed on condition that you agree to pay a £100 charge', that may be a different matter, but I'm sure it doesn't say that.

    So it's an attempt at making a 'forbidding offer' (Google that to find decided cases on that point), which is no offer at all, therefore no contract can exist.

    The only possible remedy would be under a tort of trespass, which could only be brought by the landowner (not their agent, the PPC), and damages under that heading would be purely nominal, such as £1.
    Speeding cases fought: 24 (3 of mine, 21 for others). Cases won: 20. Points on licence: 0. Private Parking Court Cases: Won 31. Lost 9.
    • logician
    • By logician 14th Jan 18, 2:10 AM
    • 127 Posts
    • 63 Thanks
    logician
    • #7
    • 14th Jan 18, 2:10 AM
    • #7
    • 14th Jan 18, 2:10 AM

    For any contract, or contractual license,
    Originally posted by bargepole
    cough I think it should be licence

    Anyway some reading and case law for the bare licence and contractual licence

    https://www.lawteacher.net/study-guides/land-law/land-law-licences.php
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 14th Jan 18, 9:41 AM
    • 6,763 Posts
    • 8,755 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #8
    • 14th Jan 18, 9:41 AM
    • #8
    • 14th Jan 18, 9:41 AM
    everest95

    You will get all the help you need on this forum FREE

    NEVER respond to a PM (private message) unless the
    poster has a MIN OF 1000 posts
    This is for your safety and protection
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 14th Jan 18, 9:50 AM
    • 7,678 Posts
    • 6,748 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #9
    • 14th Jan 18, 9:50 AM
    • #9
    • 14th Jan 18, 9:50 AM
    The driver had parked in a retail park, with intention of going into the store. However, the driver was not aware that the store opened late that day

    Were there not other outlets open? If so, are they claiming that you left site contrary to the T & C? If so, they would struggle in court.

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=16231)

    Also, eaving site is almost impossible to win, and may well be an unfair term in a consumer contract

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/contents/enacted
    Last edited by The Deep; 14-01-2018 at 9:56 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • everest95
    • By everest95 15th Jan 18, 2:49 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    everest95
    No, i don't think any of the shops had opened yet when the car was parked there.

    They are claiming for "parking reserved for patrons during opening hours only". And we are genuine patrons, we have membership card for one of the shops. Just didn't realise shops would open late that day.

    The driver had parked in a retail park, with intention of going into the store. However, the driver was not aware that the store opened late that day

    Were there not other outlets open? If so, are they claiming that you left site contrary to the T & C? If so, they would struggle in court.

    Also, eaving site is almost impossible to win, and may well be an unfair term in a consumer contract
    Originally posted by The Deep
    • logician
    • By logician 15th Jan 18, 4:20 PM
    • 127 Posts
    • 63 Thanks
    logician
    * Claim Form - received 11/01/18
    Originally posted by everest95
    So what is the issue date on the claim form?


    Have you acknowledged service of the claim yet?

    The claim form is deemed served 5 days after the issue date.

    You need to respond to the claim within 14 days from service of the claim by either

    filing the defence or
    Acknowledging service of the claim on MCOL and then submitting the defence within 28 days from service of the claim.


    If do not meet the deadline you risk the default judgment.



    There is nothing to lose by completing the acknowledgment of service whilst you consider the defence and you will need to register as an individual - make a note of the 12 digit ID number generated as part of the registration process.

    You need to verify address details and will need the claim number and password on the form.

    Tick the box you intend to defend in full

    If you live in E&W do not contest jurisdiction.

    The form is signed digitally and you can print a PDF copy


    NB WHEN COMPLETING THE ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF SERVICE PART - DO NOT PUT ANYTHING IN THE DEFENCE BOX
    - THAT COMES LATER.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 15th Jan 18, 5:58 PM
    • 6,763 Posts
    • 8,755 Thanks
    beamerguy
    everest95

    Take notice of bargepole and soon coupon-mad
    will be along to assist
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
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