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  • FIRST POST
    • woodart13
    • By woodart13 13th Jan 18, 2:33 PM
    • 12Posts
    • 1Thanks
    woodart13
    14 Days
    • #1
    • 13th Jan 18, 2:33 PM
    14 Days 13th Jan 18 at 2:33 PM
    Hi all,
    Forgive my ignorance but I read somewhere that these parking companies have 14 days to issue a notice otherwise it becomes invalid? Can someone clarify is that 14 days from the "date of contravention" or 14 days from the date of issue of the notice?

    Many thanks
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 13th Jan 18, 2:47 PM
    • 17,164 Posts
    • 21,447 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 13th Jan 18, 2:47 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Jan 18, 2:47 PM
    Hi all,
    Forgive my ignorance but I read somewhere that these parking companies have 14 days to issue a notice otherwise it becomes invalid?

    Can someone clarify is that 14 days from the "date of contravention" or 14 days from the date of issue of the notice?

    Many thanks
    Originally posted by woodart13
    no , you have not read that at all

    you have read that to comply with the law called POFA2012 (which is not mandatory) a PPC must get the NTK for an anpr or handheld camera event to the recipient keeper within 14 days ( so by day 15 where day zero is the date of the event)

    if they fail that target , its not invalid , its that they failed to make the keeper liable using POFA2012

    the NTK is still valid and a keeper should contest it where appicable , but their case is against a driver and they do not know who that is , so they ASSUME the keeper and driver are one and the same person , but they have made their task harder to prove against a keeper if they fail POFA

    so 14 days from the date of the vehicle parking , not from any notice date (so by day 15)
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Jan 18, 3:54 PM
    • 40,717 Posts
    • 81,303 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #3
    • 13th Jan 18, 3:54 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Jan 18, 3:54 PM
    ... and if anpr/cameras were not used, then the NTK should arrive between day 28 and 56 if the scammers wish to transfer liability to the keeper.

    If you need further help, please read the Sticky thread for NEWBIES which explains all this, and how to beat the scammers.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Jan 18, 4:32 PM
    • 52,869 Posts
    • 66,387 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 13th Jan 18, 4:32 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Jan 18, 4:32 PM
    Hi all,
    Forgive my ignorance but I read somewhere that these parking companies have 14 days to issue a notice otherwise it becomes invalid? Can someone clarify is that 14 days from the "date of contravention" or 14 days from the date of issue of the notice?
    Originally posted by woodart13
    This is answered in NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FAQS FIRST'.

    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • woodart13
    • By woodart13 13th Jan 18, 6:46 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    woodart13
    • #5
    • 13th Jan 18, 6:46 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Jan 18, 6:46 PM
    Hi , Tim nice but dim here again. I did read the Newbies thread and to be honest it's all beyond me and I know many of you will have short patience on this but I will risk your wrath one more time and also add that this "letter" from MET parking services, saying overstayed welcome in a BP garage at an airport services. The "offence" was on 26th December and received the notice on the 11th January,with them saying it was issued on the 8th, so if I'm correct in understanding this 14 day "rule" it has arrived too late for it to be valid?. will send one of the letters that has been posted on site but just wanted to make sure the 14 days is from the 26th Dec or 8th Jan?
    I cringe with the raised eyebrows and thoughts of idiot but however I await, hopefully, for a reply.
    Last edited by woodart13; 13-01-2018 at 9:55 PM.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 13th Jan 18, 6:50 PM
    • 17,164 Posts
    • 21,447 Thanks
    Redx
    • #6
    • 13th Jan 18, 6:50 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Jan 18, 6:50 PM
    your understanding is incorrect as I said earlier

    if it failed to arrive within 14 calendar days then POFA2012 is not invoked or available to be used by MET and you proceed with a keeper appeal using the blue text template

    MET would have to prove that you as keeper can be deemed as liable for this charge , failing POFA2012 means they will struggle to do so unless you blab about who was driving , so is in your favour as KEEPER as long as you stay that way

    people keep talking on here about "valid" or "invalid"

    it is an invoice raised due to perceived rule breaking , which MET deem to be "valid" , but is for them to prove the validity of it

    it is certainly deemed to be "valid" against the driver , because the driver is deemed to have broken the parking rules and MET say should be punished for it

    as KEEPER, you may not be LIABLE , so you proceed on that basis and they cannot invoke POFA2012 to make you liable (or accountable) if they have failed POFA2012

    complicated ? yes , but you did ask !!

    it is not rocket science , but neither is in painting by numbers either

    appeal as KEEPER using the blue text appeal, so you do not reveal anything untoward

    there is a 2 day delivery rule from the 8th jan 2018 , meaning the letter is PRESUMED to have been delivered 2 days after it was posted , this is a standard legal practice for all items posted using royal mail

    the 26th dec 2017 is day zero, so the 14 day POFA2012 rule expires on day 15 , where the 27th dec 2017 is day 1 (so about the 10th of january 2018 is the cut off date)

    so all this means is that they may have failed POFA2012 to hold a keeper liable under that particular law , that law is not mandatory , but they may have failed it anyway

    therefore you have a parking invoice that you are disputing

    here is a recent reply I gave to someone else recently in similar circumstances)

    POFA2012 schedule 4 tells you the timeline for an NTK to arrive with the recipient , and that is by day 15 where the date of the incident is day zero , so it seems to have been delayed in the xmas post, unfortunately you cannot prove this and the letter is presumed delivered (in law) 2 days later

    so if they can prove it was posted on dec 21st or thereabouts , then they could easily convince a judge they complied with POFA2012 by ensuring it was posted in good time and is PRESUMED delivered 2 days later according to the legal rules (Unless proven otherwise), despite the bank holidays
    it is "over" when either MET say so , or POPLA say so , or a judge says so , until then it is "valid" , ie:- a valid invoice that needs to be disputed

    capiche ??

    and edit your previous posts

    THE DRIVER may have overstayed on the day

    what happened on the day happened to THE DRIVER , so say so

    what has happened since that fateful day , has happened to THE KEEPER

    those are the only 2 terms you need to use , (DRIVER and KEEPER)

    FOR CLARITY , the words "ME , MYSELF & I" are not used
    Last edited by Redx; 13-01-2018 at 7:15 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 13th Jan 18, 6:53 PM
    • 5,134 Posts
    • 3,599 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #7
    • 13th Jan 18, 6:53 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Jan 18, 6:53 PM
    You need to send one of the template appeals from post #1 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

    There are two such templates and you will need to decide which one to send. Instructions on how to do that are there too.
    .
    • woodart13
    • By woodart13 13th Jan 18, 7:26 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    woodart13
    • #8
    • 13th Jan 18, 7:26 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Jan 18, 7:26 PM
    Ok , firstly I thank you all for your replies, however can someone put this dim person out of his suffering and provide said links to these templates as I cannot find them....and yes I am useless at navigating around threads etc :-(
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 13th Jan 18, 7:34 PM
    • 5,134 Posts
    • 3,599 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #9
    • 13th Jan 18, 7:34 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Jan 18, 7:34 PM
    You told us earlier:
    I did read the Newbies thread...
    Originally posted by woodart13
    Re-read the the first post on that thread.

    It really is that simple.
    Not sure that is can be made simpler without re-writing it here.

    Are you using a phone or tablet?
    Perhaps a device with a bigger screen would help.
    .
    • Redx
    • By Redx 13th Jan 18, 7:37 PM
    • 17,164 Posts
    • 21,447 Thanks
    Redx
    go to the top of this forum , its the 3rd thread down from the top, and will always be ABOVE this thread of yours

    it has NEWBIES etc in its title

    it is near the NEW THREAD BUTTON you used to start this thread of yours (which was the correct thing to do)

    you have already told us that you have read it , so read it again

    and use the EDIT button below your posts to edit the offending words I mentioned earlier

    if you cannot see this EDIT button etc , its because you are on a phone or similar

    in which case use a laptop, its a lot easier
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • woodart13
    • By woodart13 13th Jan 18, 7:56 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    woodart13
    Template letter
    Unfortunately KeithP I did read, but with my limited capacity to retain information I find it extremely difficult with this kind of thing. I shall endeavour to see the words before my eyes but sometimes it has to stand out in order for me to recognise.
    On another note I have gone onto MET's appeal page and it seems there is no way to attach said letter, hoping I can find one, just a box to add PCN number and my reg......is this normal?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 13th Jan 18, 8:04 PM
    • 34,107 Posts
    • 18,058 Thanks
    Quentin
    ..... with my limited capacity to retain information I find it extremely difficult with this kind of thing. I shall endeavour to see the words before my eyes but sometimes it has to stand out in order for me to recognise......
    Originally posted by woodart13
    Can't someone assist you?
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 13th Jan 18, 8:09 PM
    • 8,059 Posts
    • 8,447 Thanks
    pappa golf
    Can't someone assist you?
    Originally posted by Quentin
    I know of a good appeals company , ,,,,,,,,,,,
    • woodart13
    • By woodart13 13th Jan 18, 8:16 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    woodart13
    This is what I found on the MET appeals web page.....does this mean I have to send a letter too by post, as I'm told not to send by post as letters "can be lost" ??


    "Please enter the following details to start your appeals process:

    Parking Charge No:
    * Vehicle Registration:
    *

    * - Mandatory fields

    Please note if you wish to appeal this notice, please do not pay us at this time because payment will close this notice and our formal appeal process.

    If we receive your letter within 14 days of the date that the Parking Charge Notice was issued, the case will be put on hold at the discounted amount pending our investigation; otherwise, the case will be put on hold at the full outstanding charge.

    If accepted
    If your appeal is accepted, a letter will be sent to the return address confirming that:
    (a) the case has been closed, and
    (b) no charge is payable.

    If rejected
    If your appeal is rejected, a letter will be sent to the return address detailing the specific reason. Please note a period of 14 days will be given for payment at the rate at which the case was put on hold. "
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 13th Jan 18, 8:25 PM
    • 34,107 Posts
    • 18,058 Thanks
    Quentin
    Have you tried to send it using their appeals page??


    If you want belt and braces send a copy by post, but don't use signed for service. Get a free cert of posting from the post office
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 13th Jan 18, 8:27 PM
    • 5,134 Posts
    • 3,599 Thanks
    KeithP
    Follow that process and copy the blue text appeal from post #1 of the NEWBIES thread into their portal.

    Make absolutely sure that you are appealing as the keeper.
    You must give no clues to the driver's identity.

    If they've given you instructions to appeal that way, then there is no need to use the postal service.
    .
    • woodart13
    • By woodart13 13th Jan 18, 8:32 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    woodart13
    Met
    There does'nt seem to be any way to copy and paste anything to that page apart from what you see. I could send a letter to their email aswell?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 13th Jan 18, 8:34 PM
    • 34,107 Posts
    • 18,058 Thanks
    Quentin
    Have you put the initial details required in (reg & PCN number?)
    • woodart13
    • By woodart13 13th Jan 18, 8:35 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    woodart13
    Blue txt appeal
    The only blue txt appeal I can see mentions about poor signage....is this the one??
    • woodart13
    • By woodart13 13th Jan 18, 8:36 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    woodart13
    Details
    Not yet as it just says "submit" at the bottom so I'm concerned it will just send off and allow nothing more
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